Found Deceased CA - Kiely Rodni missing from Party Near Prosser Family Campground in Truckee #9

[franker]

View attachment 366491
Others on Twitter think there’s no wheel here and you can see the sediment inside

That pic makes no sense to me.

Based on the shape of the window it has to be a back window.

If the tire is still on then the wheel is still on.

I think all 4 hubcaps were visible in various extraction pics.

IMO, the only explanation that a hubcap was missing when the pic was taken but not when the extraction pic was taken was that someone, under those circumstances, found it necessary, underwater, to put the hubcap back on.

Makes no sense to me.

JMHO

 

[O.Incandenza]

RSBM

@O.Incandenza - While I can imagine, I never imagined until now that LE could put a tire back on a car to bring it out of water. I don't disagree that is a long shot. However, regarding AWP, I have two alternative thoughts:

1) in the Duty Don interview of Nick the AWP diver, posted numerous times here, Nick says very loud and clear he did not pay attention to details. He had a mission and it did not include taking note of everything; and

2) don't we know from Doug of AWP that they are holding back information for sake of LE's investigation, so could that not include something odd about KR's one tire?

ET: fix format

I guess anything is possible, but AWP hasn't been at all shy about sharing the details of the car's condition (window positions, tires rotating freely, video of some of the contents, the location of Kiely's body, etc). And even if the diver didn't notice, they have his full video. A missing or damaged tire should be readily apparent in that.

Beyond that, the car came out of the lake with the wheel on it. There were civilians and family members on shore. Some even posted in this thread. No one has mentioned anything about the tire being damaged or deflated.

That's all far more convincing to me than a freeze-frame screenshot that is probably aimed too low to even see the tire in question.

 

[SteveP]

RSBM

@O.Incandenza - While I can imagine, I never imagined until now that LE could put a tire back on a car to bring it out of water. I don't disagree that is a long shot. However, regarding AWP, I have two alternative thoughts:

1) in the Duty Don interview of Nick the AWP diver, posted numerous times here, Nick says very loud and clear he did not pay attention to details. He had a mission and it did not include taking note of everything; and

2) don't we know from Doug of AWP that they are holding back information for sake of LE's investigation, so could that not include something odd about KR's one tire?

ET: fix format

Doug Bishop, of AWP, has stated that they are holding back information for the sake of LE's investigation, but if something they are holding back is information about a missing tire or wheel, on Kiely's vehicle, why would they even let us get a brief glimpse of it? Granted, it was only seen on video for a fraction of a second, but it is apparent that hours of work go into the production of their videos. They are not just thrown together. They are very professionally photographed and edited, and I am sure every frame is carefully examined before the final product is released. If there were a tire or wheel missing, that, for sake of the investigation, was not noted and mentioned in the video, I think there is no way we would have caught even a hint of it on the video that has been viewed more than 1 million times. I feel comfortable saying that the tire and wheel are there, regardless of what we think we do or do not see. JMO

 

[5W's]

Doug Bishop, of AWP, has stated that they are holding back information for the sake of LE's investigation, but if something they are holding back is information about a missing tire or wheel, on Kiely's vehicle, why would they even let us get a brief glimpse of it? Granted, it was only seen on video for a fraction of a second, but it is apparent that much work goes into the production of their videos. They are not just thrown together. They are very professionally photographed and edited, and I am sure every frame is examined before the final product is released. If there were a tire or wheel missing, that, for sake of the investigation, was not noted and mentioned in the video, I think there is no way we would have caught even a hint of it on the video that has been viewed more than 1 million times. I am comfortable saying that the tire and wheel are there, regardless of what we think we do or do not see. JMO

What if its not missing but damaged in some way. IMO it does look different than a normal tire. I could be wrong of course. Its an image that was taken for a few seconds as you said so AWP may not even mention it. Only people who observed the the difference would question it so IMO it doesn't really detract from LE's investigation. Obviously if it did then AWP wouldn't post it. Although there are some things that Sleuthers have observed within the images and are questioning what they are seeing. So its all good IMO.

 

[Beekarina]

Doug Bishop, of AWP, has stated that they are holding back information for the sake of LE's investigation, but if something they are holding back is information about a missing tire or wheel, on Kiely's vehicle, why would they even let us get a brief glimpse of it? Granted, it was only seen on video for a fraction of a second, but it is apparent that hours of work go into the production of their videos. They are not just thrown together. They are very professionally photographed and edited, and I am sure every frame is carefully examined before the final product is released. If there were a tire or wheel missing, that, for sake of the investigation, was not noted and mentioned in the video, I think there is no way we would have caught even a hint of it on the video that has been viewed more than 1 million times. I feel comfortable saying that the tire and wheel are there, regardless of what we think we do or do not see. JMO

I agree now that the metal is intact and it is mud/silt piling in. I still think the tire looks off.

AWP apparently wasn't aware of "The Strap" (seatbelt?) until viewers called attention to it.

 

[5W's]

It's incredibly difficult for even a completely sober person to escape a quickly sinking car. I don't think the fact she couldn't escape means she had to be unconscious or blackout drunk.

It hits the water, its floating, Kiely by now realizes she is going underwater, its still sinking she has a chance. If she were concious she would want to escape so she would try to do so, no matter how enebriated she was, she would at least make an attempt unless she was unconscious/dead when the car hit the water. By the way I've heard that when a person is drowning they try to fight it so when they are found deceased it shows on their faces, arms and legs, what they were trying to do just before death. That may be another indication to AWP as perphaps they didn't see her reflexes as such.

Instinctive drowning response - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[franker]

It hits the water, its floating, Kiely by now realizes she is going underwater, its still sinking she has a chance. If she were concious she would want to escape so she would try to do so, no matter how enebriated she was, she would at least make an attempt unless she was unconscious/dead when the car hit the water. By the way I've heard that when a person is drowning they try to fight it so when they are found deceased it shows on their faces, arms and legs, what they were trying to do just before death. That may be another indication to AWP as perphaps they didn't see her reflexes as such.

Instinctive drowning response - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Yeah.

There are so many unknowns that I am starting to doubt that we will ever know what really happened.

I guess at this point all we can do is have faith that the reports will shed light on this.

There is some reason to believe that they will but also reason that maybe they won't.

JMHO

 

[Gemmie]

I got an answer from AWP regarding if they were a 501C3 or not. In my inquiry I had stated that I heard they applied for one back in February as per one of the posters here. That wasn't addressed in their response. Only that they are not a 501(c)3 "per guidance of their financial advisors".

 

[AggieLou]

Not sure if this has come up but have been wondering for a while. How did the CRV get so far out to its resting place into the reservoir? We know the reservoir water level was higher at time of her disappearance so waterline was further up the beach. It's not likely the vehicle could drive out too far while running. Cars will flood out and stall. Six to twelve inches of water depth will flood the exhaust depending on vehicle. I don't think, but not sure, her CRV would begin to float in water that shallow and no current likely at shore to carry it out further. So with water level further up beach, how far out before drop off becomes steep enough to submerge the CRV?

 

[maggiemae196]

Do you know the area that her car went into the water? Or I guess we’re not 100% certain her car went *into* the water exactly there - but the area where her car was towed? The party wasn’t far from that location.

If you are going down the road to where they found her car, there is a road that goes off to the right while you're still in the trees. It comes to a fairly large opening at the top. When we were looking around this is where we thought it might be.

 

[franker]

Not sure if this has come up but have been wondering for a while. How did the CRV get so far out to its resting place into the reservoir? We know the reservoir water level was higher at time of her disappearance so waterline was further up the beach. It's not likely the vehicle could drive out too far while running. Cars will flood out and stall. Six to twelve inches of water depth will flood the exhaust depending on vehicle. I don't think, but not sure, her CRV would begin to float in water that shallow and no current likely at shore to carry it out further. So with water level further up beach, how far out before drop off becomes steep enough to submerge the CRV?

That's actually an interesting point you bring up.

What was the actual angle of declination (sloping down) of the "beach" that the car drove into?

Was it a within a few feet that the engine would have shut off or was it some kind of sheer drop off?

And that would seriously impact the required entry speed, would it not?

The more I think about it you have a very important point!

JMHO

 

[gliving]

I'm not sure how the tires would be positioned with the car upside down. I don't assume they'd be in their regular place when the suspension is lax.

Also, I don't see how she could dive down to swim under two rows of seats and end up in the hatch.

 

[Curiosa20]

Not sure if this has come up but have been wondering for a while. How did the CRV get so far out to its resting place into the reservoir? We know the reservoir water level was higher at time of her disappearance so waterline was further up the beach. It's not likely the vehicle could drive out too far while running. Cars will flood out and stall. Six to twelve inches of water depth will flood the exhaust depending on vehicle. I don't think, but not sure, her CRV would begin to float in water that shallow and no current likely at shore to carry it out further. So with water level further up beach, how far out before drop off becomes steep enough to submerge the CRV?

Not very far.
To be exact that model is 65.1 inches high, 178.3 long and without mirrors 71.6 wide.
So on the wheels or upside down it would be underwater at just over 5.5 feet.
The beach was estimated to be 25 feet wider on August 6. So basically that would be approximately 80 feet more water to roll through and turn over in. 80 feet is just about 45-50 steps.
When she and the car were located 55 feet offshore, it was only about 27 steps.
We don't know the exact ground elevation slope but from what we’ve seen, there is not any significant drop off. It looks very gradual-
In the moment the vehicle was located it was said in shock that the depth was 15 feet. The water was 3.5 feet deeper when Kiely was reported missing, so about 18.5
Looking at photos posted yesterday with a considerable surface water reduction since August 21- the gauge readings were posted last night- it’s obvious there is no big drop off. I calculated the current surface level there where the car was at just over 6 feet.

 

[AggieLou]

That's actually an interesting point you bring up.

What was the actual angle of declination (sloping down) of the "beach" that the car drove into?

Was it a within a few feet that the engine would have shut off or was it some kind of sheer drop off?

And that would seriously impact the required entry speed, would it not?

The more I think about it you have a very important point!

JMHO

Yeah, I've just been thinking if she put the car in water as the accident theory would imply, she wouldn't just be plopped down into 10 feet of water with water coming rushing in through open windows and only have 30 seconds. You would know you were in water. At some point close along a shore when Doug was scanning he said water was only 2 ft deep and I think commented that it did not make sense. I don't think he was where vehicle was found though, Nick was. Even that depth you could get out of the car. . Don't people camp and swim at that reservoir? One would think there should be enough shallows around beaches to swim safely before drop offs. It's man made. Is there anywhere near a dam or roadway where a car can be shoved off?

 

[Puzzles8]

Just IMO, I think AWP is an amazing organization.

But, I also think they are getting out of their wheelhouse in implying criminal intent.
JMO

 

[Curiosa20]

Yeah, I've just been thinking if she put the car in water as the accident theory would imply, she wouldn't just be plopped down into 10 feet of water with water coming rushing in through open windows and only have 30 seconds. You would know you were in water. At some point close along a shore when Doug was scanning he said water was only 2 ft deep and I think commented that it did not make sense. I don't think he was where vehicle was found though, Nick was. Even that depth you could get out of the car. . Don't people camp and swim at that reservoir? One would think there should be enough shallows around beaches to swim safely before drop offs. It's man made. Is there anywhere near a dam or roadway where a car can be shoved off?

Yeah, I wondered about current but there really isn’t any to speak of. I don’t know how to calculate velocity and buoyancy and personally I don’t think it would have gone straight out, right? I guess it went off the point and drifted to the right a bit before sinking. But what do I know.
The reservoir was created by building a dam but it’s quite a distance. I posted a map last night that shows the dam road and trails. I forget to add to the media page. Let me see if I can find it

 

[customCF]

In other words could, as some of us opined way up thread, there have been an accident on the beach such that it caused the wheel to come off and window to break as the car rolled violently into the water to the right.

And if the wheel / tire were underwater but separate, I'd think all LE would have to do is place it back on the studs. They wouldn't necessary have to put lug nuts on since they were just slowly pulling the car in a straight line out of the water??

Snipped for focus and BBM

IF the CR-V "flipped violently into the water, it would most likely have had much more body damage than it did on the AWP video. There would have also been some signs on the beach of a rollover.
MOO as I have been in a rollover accident.
The drone video on 8-9 (IIRC) showed no disturbances on the beach. IF LE had to put a wheel on and did not lug nuts, the wheel would still fall off even if moving slowly in a straight line.
I have tried to move a broken down car in a garage with no lug nuts on one wheel and the wheel fell off pushing in a straight line.

 

[customCF]

Yeah, I wondered about current but there really isn’t any to speak of. I don’t know how to calculate velocity and buoyancy and personally I don’t think it would have gone straight out, right? I guess it went off the point and drifted to the right a bit before sinking. But what do I know.
The reservoir was created by building a dam but it’s quite a distance. I posted a map last night that shows the dam road and trails. I forget to add to the media page. Let me see if I can find it

From everything I have read Prosser reservoir doesn't seem to have much curent naturally since it is a dammed reservoir. I don't think a vehicle would drift much at all when sinking in a scenario similar to this given the depth of water at the time.
MOO

Not sure if this has come up but have been wondering for a while. How did the CRV get so far out to its resting place into the reservoir? We know the reservoir water level was higher at time of her disappearance so waterline was further up the beach. It's not likely the vehicle could drive out too far while running. Cars will flood out and stall. Six to twelve inches of water depth will flood the exhaust depending on vehicle. I don't think, but not sure, her CRV would begin to float in water that shallow and no current likely at shore to carry it out further. So with water level further up beach, how far out before drop off becomes steep enough to submerge the CRV?

If given enough speed a vehicle can "float" hydroplane on as little as one inch of water if circumstances are proper. Looking at the beach as it was when Kiely went missing and as it is now; there doesn't seem to be a "drop off" of any sort. Looks to me to be more of a gradual slope.
MOO

I need to read my hydrology books again and learn about water pressures when flowing through a specific size opening. Learning about this is interesting IMO

 

[Curiosa20]

From everything I have read Prosser reservoir doesn't seem to have much curent naturally since it is a dammed reservoir. I don't think a vehicle would drift much at all when sinking in a scenario similar to this given the depth of water at the time.
MOO

If given enough speed a vehicle can "float" hydroplane on as little as one inch of water if circumstances are proper. Looking at the beach as it was when Kiely went missing and as it is now; there doesn't seem to be a "drop off" of any sort. Looks to me to be more of a gradual slope.
MOO

I need to read my hydrology books again and learn about water pressures when flowing through a specific size opening. Learning about this is interesting IMO

It is interesting.
I wonder what is involved in calculating the ratios and differentials of weight and pressure to buoyancy? Or something like that.
I read early on that vehicles tend to list to the right when filling with water, something about distribution of weight of the engine but I don't know why. There was no wind that night to speak of AIRC. I’ll go back and look at graphs for speed and direction and post next.
I guess it couldn’t take long or travel more than 35 -40 feet to get to a depth from original shoreline to begin sinking then turtle so.. how long and what distance from shore when it turtled upside down, floated and then sank? IMOO
A couple of things bothered me early in. One, the lack of tracks or any disturbance at shoreline, the early reports of water depth of 35 feet (where were they) and supposedly very murky dangerous diving water. We’ve all seen how clear the water is while swimming around the car and diving for lost possessions. And we took the 25 feet less shoreline as a fact.
Was the passenger window completely shattered out?
Here’s a perspective from back of dam with current measured depths- look at the area around Alder Creek, it’s the identifier.

Prosser Creek Reservoir (CA) nautical chart and water depth map

Prosser Creek Reservoir (CA) nautical chart on depth map. Coordinates: 39.3786, -120.146. Free marine navigation, important information about the hydrography of Prosser Creek Reservoir

usa.fishermap.org

 

[customCF]

I read early on that vehicles tend to list to the right when filling with water, something about distribution of weight of the engine but I don't know why.

This happens because most vehicles are left hand drive and the engine/transaxle in many FWD or AWD vehicles are offset to the passenger side to counter the weight of a single driver. A front engine rear drive vehicle like a truck wouldn't have as bad of list even though engines are still offset to create room for internal foot controls.

MOO

The math behind this is complicated

PS: I know this might be considerd a bit off topic but wanted to try and help people learn something about sinking vehicles