CA CA - Kristen Modafferi, 18, San Francisco, 23 June 1997

[rooftopny]

I don't know what to think about this guy, either. Because the Mods and Dennis give enough credit to his story to place it on the website, I think maybe we should to.

I understand what you are saying Litlstar04, but I also think that a family in the Mods' position is going to follow up on any tips they get out of the hope that somehow they are going to get the answers they are looking for. They've put Davis' story on their site and put a message on the Peace Corp site because anything's worth a shot, but that doesn't change the fact that it's disturbing, in my opinion, to read Davis saying "when I met Kristen" as if it were fact. If he were to say "I believe I met Kristen" or "I met someone who could have been Kristen" I would have more respect for him. But as it stands, I think it does the case an injustice. Just my 2 cents ...

 

[Litlstar04]

http://www.rpcvla.org/_disc1/0000000e.htm
http://www.rpcvla.org/_disc1/0000000f.htm
The first link is Randal Davis' message and the second is the Modafferi's, posted on a peace corps board.
I agree with you that every parent is going to check out every lead. But, do you think they give every lead the credit that they've given Mr. Davis', that is putting it on the website and actively participating in trying to get others to come forward who may have also met Kristen? I'm not saying that the Modafferi's believe Mr. Davis' story, but for some reason, they think that it could be a possibility enough that they continue to pursue it.
I agree that if this were my loved one it would bother me that he continues to say "When I met Kristen," but he really does believe that he met Kristen, so I guess in his mind this will always be a true statement until something proves otherwise.

 

[Litlstar04]

http://www.findkristen.com/OnumaCallsDennis.html

Onuma called Dennis about a week ago to try to clear his name! According to Onuma, he is going to do whatever it takes in the upcoming weeks to clear his name and put this behind him. I wonder what all of this will mean for this case. I hope it brings some answers to the Modafferis!

 

[suladog]

JO said that KM's body was dumped in Point Rayes. If you look on the sutro baths web site, it says that Sutro Baths is part of the Golden Gate National REcreation Area, as is Point Reyes.... it's like this JO guy knows too much! If he had nothing to do with it....why would he specifically say Pt. Reyes?

Or this could be just nothing, and its known that Pt. Reyes is a popular place to dump bodies....like the East RIver in NYC.
LE hasn't disregarded the theory that KM fell and was in some sort of fatal accident. Don't they have people working in LE who can track tides and wind speeds and try to figure out where the body went? And if they're so sure of it, why didn't they send out divers to look for her? KM possibly was a bit more trusting than other people, but she certainly seems bright enough to read and comprehend a sign that says, "Danger!"

In addition, this Sutro Baths/Lands End area seems a little isolated. Also, I read on the ABC transcripts of the ABC special that indicated that not only is the area isolated, but it's not exactly the best crowd of people hanging out there. Does anyone have more familiarity with the area? Could you tell us a little about it? Is it known as a spot to stay away from, don't go alone, don't go in the evening, etc...

I'm posting and registered because I saw the website have read about the KM case and am very familiar with the Sutro Baths area having grown up less than a mile away from the site. Two years ago my husband and I were hired by the GGNRA to help redesign the new Sutro National Park that is currently being constructed on this site, so I've walked the site many many times.
First of all Sutro Baths is one of the most visited places in San Francisco..Tour buses (Greyline)routinely stop there..taking people to the Cliff House Restaurant, and Louis' restaurant..there are telescopes scattered through out the area for viewing Seal Rocks..it is generallly swarming with people..not lonely at all...depending on what time of day one is there...even in the evening it's well populated because of the resaurants...it is at the tip of the city and Land's End sounds forbidding but the actual Land's End Monument sits behind the Palace of the Legion Of Honor Museum..also a busy spot and adjoins a public golf course...from there it is a steep drop down to the beach..there are trails there but there are also many signs warning people not to go down, since there have been landslides over the years, and quite a few people have been lost, buried etc..and sometimes swept out to sea without being found. As a kid I must confess I disobeyed the signs..but I was 8 and didn't know much better...it's hard to believe an adult woman would voluntarily go down there...my father was Lieutenant of the San Francisco Fire Department Rescue Unit..so I know first hand of the many people lost at that location...Sutro on the other hand..has hiking trails that go down very steeply to the water...and the old bath complex...there is a wooded area in the complex also which it would not be advisiable to go into..it's been used over the years for prostitution, drug dealing..etc...while hiking the site with National Park Landscape achitects three years ago I observed numerous kids hanging around and "squatting" on park property..obviously this is not an area where one would want to go alone after dark...but during the day it is quite busy....hikers, dog walkers etc...it is possible for someone to lose one's footing even on the trails near the baths and go into the water..and I can tell you that not everyone who goes in has come out or been found..I can't think of what else to add about the place..it does have a spooky aspect..especially in foggy weather....but it's generally as I said before very busy filled with crowds of tourists..especially in the summer months....I hope this helps in giving background on the area..anything else I can help with just let me know.

 

[Up2theminute]

Wow, thank you so much for that information on the Land's End and Sutro baths area. That does give some realistic perspective to it now, aside from just pictures I mean.

 

[suladog]

Wow, thank you so much for that information on the Land's End and Sutro baths area. That does give some realistic perspective to it now, aside from just pictures I mean.

Glad I could be of help. I've wondered about this case since reading about it..I was thinking about it while we were working out there a couple of years ago...she's not the first person who's disappeared out there...in most cases it's been accidental slips from the cliffs by people unfamiliar with the area.

 

[Litlstar04]

Welcome suladog!
I was wondering if you knew whether or not people most generally witness people falling/stumbling over the cliffs? It seems to me that with so many people in the area, someone would see something. Plus, how else do they know that all of these people are falling into the water?
Since you know the area and this case, what do you think happened to Kristen?

 

[suladog]

Welcome suladog!
I was wondering if you knew whether or not people most generally witness people falling/stumbling over the cliffs? It seems to me that with so many people in the area, someone would see something. Plus, how else do they know that all of these people are falling into the water?
Since you know the area and this case, what do you think happened to Kristen?

also a case I found on doenetwork.com
Noel Annette Marcotte
Circumstances of Disappearance
Marcotte was last seen on March 24, 1990 at Sutro Baths in San Francisco, California. She fell into the ocean near the Cliff House and apparently drowned. She fell about 10 feet into the water about 10:15 p.m. Her boyfriend jumped in after her but could not find her.
These are a couple of cases..I can ask my dad what he remembers about the area and the years he was at the fire station on Geary that served the Sutro and Land's End area..but over the years people have fallen or jumped in the area..it would depend on the time of day, weather, and area of the park she might have been in regarding whether or not anyone might have seen her..weather on the day she went missing shows this...
The park covers a large area, someone could fall or be pushed without anyone noticing, it would be just a matter of timing..but I would think it would be a chance that someone intending ill to someone wouldn't want to take...at least at a populated time of day....walking the site back in 2001 with a party of park rangers, climbing down the steep paths made ME nervous and I grew up around the place...I was more concerned about losing my footing than anything else...but to construe that the area in itself is unsavory or a place where people shouldn't go is incorrect..however I'm inclined to think she never went to Sutro's that day,just because one inquires about a place doesnb't mean one is going there immediately..it also seems that KM was a bit of a risk taker..if as her roomates say she would stay over at people's houses, or stay out all night...several questions about this...is this what her roomates SAY about her...or what others who also knew her, knew her to do...since there are limits to being naive in this day and age and she was already on her own at school for one year...seems that there should have been more questioning of the roomates..also how were these roomates located..in other words how did she or her family find these people she moved in with..who recommended them? It seems highly unusual to move in with all male roomates, one has never met before, who was in charge of this planning...were they recommended by friends from NC or what? I do have some more thoughts on this I'll post later...I've tried to put some links in here but somehow they don't show up..help

 

[Litlstar04]

When I post links, I usually just copy the address from the page and paste it in my reply. Maybe that will be helpful...
Up2theminute and I have spent some time in the past discussing the roommates. Robert Cooke, who knows the Mods, also posted that it wasn't odd for people who barely knew Kristen, i.e. the roommates, to not know her schedule, and therefore not be worried right away that they hadn't seen her. From what I've gathered, Kristen went on line and researched the area to find a job and a place to live. She did all of this as part of a plan to convince her parents to let her do this. From a post that Griffin Cherry (one of her roommates) made in the Mods' guestbook, it sounds like he talked to her parents and Kristen on the phone before she moved out there. Beyond that, I've always been a little suspicious of some of her roommates' actions in the days after her disappearance. I remember reading somewhere (I think on Dennis Mahon's site) that they opened up Kristen's mail.
Here is a good place to read about this:
http://www.findkristen.com/ResponseRD.html
Also, her roommate Griffin Cherry has been brought up again in her guestbook by Randal Davis who is convinced that he met Kristen in Nicaragua.
http://www.homestead.com/~site/Scri...se&H_H=1750043208&H_P=1&H_A=0&H_V=2&H_U=21064

 

[Babcat]

I read the entire site run by Dennis, the Mods' site, and all the links. I've been doing nothing but reading about this for about two weeks whenever I had some free time.

I don't think Onuma had anything to do with Kristen's disappearance. I believe he truly did just make that call to get even with the women employees of the Y that he didn't like. It was a stupid idea to make that call and he put himself under suspicion. For that reason I don't feel sorry for him or for Jill Lampo since she obviously saw something attractive in this obvious :loser: who kills animals and brutalizes girlfriends. But I also don't see any connection to Kristen's disappearance.

I don't think Kristen is dead. I think she either placed that ad or answered the ad placed there for a very specific reason. If I were the Modaferri's I would look into a group often referred to as the "Garbage Eaters" "The Brethren" or the "Robert's Group". It is a very powerful cult that operates across the country and baffles cult awareness groups at the speed at which they can suck in new members. While most cults methodically work on recruiting new members over a period of weeks or even months, the Brethren can have a new recruit giving up everything and disassociating with family in a matter of days... even hours! They target highly intelligent and spiritually aware college students, and one of their strongest bases is in Berkley.

 

[suladog]

When I post links, I usually just copy the address from the page and paste it in my reply. Maybe that will be helpful...

Ok..here's on elink I wanted to pass on about other missing people there
http://www.angelfire.com/mi3/mpccn/lupercio_richardo.html

 

[suladog]

When I post links, I usually just copy the address from the page and paste it in my reply. Maybe that will be helpful...

and one other site...
http://doenetwork.bravepages.com/1121dfca.html

 

[Babcat]

I don't mean to be rude... but why do they even include these people on the Doe Network? They state with certainty that these three people fell into the ocean. The one girl had a boyfriend that jumped in after her but couldn't locate her. I assume the others were witnessed falling in as well.

So what is the point of circulating these photos all these years? Do they really believe that these people surfaced elsewhere down current, only to emerge miraculously from the water and immediately meet with foul play? Talk about having a lousy day!

They aren't missing... they drowned. If they are going to put these people on missing persons sites, why aren't all our soldiers that were never recovered also on the sites?

 

[Up2theminute]

They are probably posted on the doe network in the event that the bodies are found and then they can be matched up against the cases of people who are suspected (or known) to have fallen victim to similar circumstances. A large part of the doe network is also the identification of found bodies which they also feature. The missing persons cold case network has sections for the same thing, but, true if it's listed in the regular missing section then that is kind of misleading. Although, there are cases that continue to be featured on there even after a perp has gotten convicted of a person's case, as long as the body is still missing it remains listed. Then there are also cases where the people have been found (as far as their body) but the actual crime has never been solved so they also remain among the other missing cold cases.

It's interesting that those cases are on there because I've read there a lot and coincidentally have never seen them. I know the part about falling and drowning at sutro baths would have stood out to me if I had seen it. But then there are many, many case directories and I definitely haven't read through all of them yet. Certainly the possibility of her falling into the water drowning is an interesting theory and interesting to read possible comparative cases should that turn out to have been the case for Kristen. I do have to wonder though what on earth those females in the cold cases were thinking by wearing high heels to walk around a place like that. :waitasec: Maybe that was an '80's thing.

The theory of Kristen being recruited into a cult is certainly an interesting possibility and could explain two things, the ad placed for friends that has not been able to be traced to anyone one way or the other and the unidentified blonde female seen walking with Kristen out of the galleria carrying a similar (identical?) backpack. Where is that person? And why have they never came forward? Perhaps because they are among the same group of people that has kept Kristen 'away' all these years? Maybe. She (Kristen) has always seemed a little naive to me, very intelligent, but naive and maybe a little too trusting. Not meant in an offensive way, but just an observation.

About the roommates, I don't think it's necessarily odd that they didn't know her schedule, especially if they really didn't know her well outside of just being someone who was staying there. I know I certainly didn't know everything my roommates were doing all the time and that's including the ones I considered friends. Another thing to keep in mind is that her class had not started yet. Maybe it would have been a little easier for them to have an idea of her schedule once her class started and she had class on top of work plus homework, etc. But at that point it was just her work schedule, which probably varied since it sounded like a seasonal job at a coffeehouse, and then her random exploring that she often did on her own at night. The choice of all-male roommates seems a little odd to me (personally) but apparently it didn't make a difference to Kristen and apparently it didn't seem that odd to her family. Also if I remember correctly I think Kristen's best friend or very good friend from NC State was a male so maybe she was just the type of girl who felt more comfortable with male friends and the family didn't see anything out of the ordinary about her choice either. The part about opening her mail is odd though.

 

[Babcat]

I have a very strong feeling she is among this group (the Roberts Group).

Parents of young people known to be in the cult set up their own website. Here is an excerpt from one of the pages:

As parents we recognize that while each of our sons and daughters is unique and may have had different goals and lifestyles, there are many similarities among them. This section might give you an idea of who our offspring are and why your son or daughter might be with this group.

Intelligent. Our sons and daughters are intelligent, inquisitive, young adults, who were successful students in school. Many were recruited at college campuses where they were attending classes. The Roberts Group frequently recruits young men and women at university campuses, student gathering places, libraries, concerts, and events such as Rainbow gatherings.

Talented. Many excelled in hobbies and were athletic, artistic and musically skilled.

Spiritual. They seemed to be reaching out for some unfulfilled spiritual experience and lifestyle even though they may have been very connected to their family's spiritual substance.

Personable. Our sons and daughters tended to be attractive, well behaved, well mannered, and self-disciplined.

Age. Most were recruited between the age of seventeen and twenty-one; however, there were some younger and some older.

These characteristics are displayed to various degrees in all of our sons and daughters and are reflective of the Roberts Group in general.

Kristen was a gifted student academically. She excelled in choral music. She was outgoing and independent but too young to be in that city all by herself. Sorry if that seems judgemental of her parents but I firmly stick by the belief that no way would my child have gone there alone and then refused to stay in the dorms as well. I don't care if she was eighteen... if her parents had pushed back she would have stopped pushing.

She had read the Bible cover to cover of her own volition. She was obviously searching for something. She made a remark to her mother about not being as impressed as she expected to be... or finding no revelations in Revelation. This girl was a cult member waiting to be recruited. She was the poster child of "easy target".

 

[Up2theminute]

I definitely think the joining a cult theory is a possibility to seriously consider. It certainly wouldn't hurt to try and is no more (or less) far-fetched a possibility than the Nicaragua sighting (which I personally don't believe and after reading the message board links that Litlstar showed me I really think Randal Davis is just a little bit not all there). Have you thought about submitting this as a 'tip' to the Modaferris?

 

[Babcat]

I cannot imagine that the Modafferis haven't already been told about this group. They are notorious on college campuses. They always look to prey on the most motivated and independent uppermost percentile of students. They look for those with a strong religious base to begin with. It is far easier convincing a believer that you are the "true" interpreters of the word of God, than it would be to convince a non believer that the word of God is anything but an ancient work of literature in the first place. And those that recruit new members are trained very well.

The primary purpose of the Roberts Group, aside from diligent study of the scriptures, is to recruit new members. The basic pattern for recruitment is usually the same. As you'll read in the section Profiles of Our Sons and Daughters, prospective members fit a general profile which Roberts Group members recognize because of similarities to themselves.

College campuses appear to be the main area of recruitment. The Roberts Group is also active at concerts, libraries, and public gatherings in cities that might draw a counter culture crowd.

Shortly after a member has met a potential recruit, the conversation turns to the scriptures. The member witnesses to the recruit and uses scripture to make the recruit feel guilty and inadequate. The member tells of their glorious nomadic lifestyle, total allegiance to the Lord, and paints an idealistic picture of their life. They don't tell the potential recruit about the stringent rules pertaining to family, marriage, and freedoms. They convince the recruit that people in the world lack the discipline to lead spiritual lives and make a good argument with their superior knowledge of the scriptures. A sense of urgency may be applied to hasten the recruit's decision so that the "seed of salvation, which has been planted in the heart, will not be snatched away by Satan." Pressure to decide now and not think about the consequences or ask for advice from outside the Roberts Group can be overwhelming to someone at a crossroads in their life.

The recruit, overcome by idealism and their own sense of altruism, commits to the Roberts Group. Once committed, they're encouraged to get rid of all their worldly possessions. Any money the recruit has may be used to pay debts and buy necessities.

The recruit is often required to write home to their family. This usually happens in the first week. The letter is general, just telling the family everything is all right. Another letter might follow a few weeks later. This letter may contain many of the scripture passages that support the Roberts Group's lifestyle. Follow-on letters may become critical of the parents as the Roberts Group members work to sever the ties to family and make the recruit emotionally dependent on the Roberts Group. These early letters are intentionally designed to delay searching by the family and to throw them off the trail while it's warm and traceable. Some recruits never write home. Many families receive letters marking a complete detachment, with no more communication, cruelly declaring, "This is the last letter you will ever get from me."

The recruit becomes indoctrinated into the Roberts Group, with the Elders as their teachers. The recruit can make friends with other members and is responsible to any member with seniority, which, in the case of a new recruit, is everyone in the Roberts Group. Men are not subordinate to women, no matter how senior the sister is. Women are subordinate to all men, regardless of seniority. New women are subordinate to everyone.

...and thus, filled with youthful expectations and idealism, a young, impressionable recruit becomes a Roberts Group member.

 

[Litlstar04]

This is the first time that I've heard of the Roberts Group - thanks for posting about it Babcat. Not that I believe all that Randal Davis is saying, but he mentioned something in the guest book about objectivism. Does this have anything to do with the Roberts Group? The most that I've been able to find out about it is that it's an Ayn Rand ideology, but Randal mentioned that there is a chapter located in San Francisco. If Kristen did become involved in the Roberts Group, could she have ended up in Nicaragua?
Two things that don't make sense to me about the Roberts Group possibility. 1) Kristen left money in her bank account and a paycheck unclaimed. Wouldn't she/they have seen it as important to take this money with her? 2) She never contacted her family. I wouldn't have thought this odd, except it specifically says that the family is contacted. I think Kristen would be one of the first to want to contact her family to let them know she's alright, but chosen the path of the Roberts Group.

 

[Litlstar04]

This is also interesting that someone found and posted in the guestbook on Dennis' site www.findkristen.com:
http://peoplesearchers.com/missing-people-search/find/theshanana.htm

 

[Babcat]

Many of the recruits never contact their family... and many are encouraged not to contact family if the group gets the impression that a vigorous campaign will be launched to retrieve the child/loved one. The above information (copied from the site) is being kind... way TOO kind, to the Robert's cult. They are not nice people. They lie and deceive and they justify it by saying that people outside their group are doomed to hell and not worthy of the truth. The parents that run that website refrain from calling the group Garbage Eaters or painting them in an excessively bad light because they hold out hope their children will find a way (perhaps through a library) to access the site. They do not want to anger or insult a child that may be wrestling with the issue of leaving the group.

THEY ARE NOT INTERESTED IN MONEY. This sets them apart from many cults because the underlying motivation has never been money. They only encourage new recruits to retrieve paychecks or tend to their bank accounts if the recruit owes a debt that can be settled before entering the group. This is to protect against the possibility of debt collectors attempting to find the recruit. Collection agencies are better detectives than law enforcement. Kristen owed no debts that I've ever seen mentioned.

I do not believe that Randal Davis ever encountered any young woman in Nicaragua as he describes, let alone Kristen Modaferri. I think he's a kook. :loser:

His story sounded believable enough, except for the immediate red flag that a 55+ year-old man was gushing about possibly being "in love" with a girl he estimated to be about the age his children would normally be, if he had/has any. That in itself may be nausiating albeit not unheard of, until one actually reads his account of the story. He hardly had any contact with the "mystery girl" and actually spends too much of the reader's time rambling on about being bitten by a dog (and he thought it might have had Rabies, but finds out it ate a toad :doh: ) for no apparent reason whatsoever! One keeps waiting for the incident to somehow connect to the "mystery girl" yet it never does. None of his "adventures" do! A typed page worth of story of travels in South America give us a glimpse of the "mystery girl" for a grand total of perhaps an hour he may have spent in her company. He distastefully refers to the girl as "Kristen" to lend creedence to his claim, yet his version of events leaves one skeptical that he ever knew the name of the young woman. And he freely gives the names of others at the inn who turn out to be real people who remember Mr. Davis without effort... yet not one of them remembers ever having seen the young woman he describes. They readily remember him, but they have no recollection of her. This story is either a figment of Mr. Davis' imagination that he has, over time, convinced himself really happened... or he is well aware it is a lie and he enjoys the attention.