GUILTY CA - Leila Fowler, 8, murdered, 12yo charged, Valley Springs, 27 Apr 2013 - #1

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alp1981 said:
Does anyone know if the other man at the vigil was the father's brother? He had his arms around J***** and the 12 year old in many pics.
Would it be possible the neighbor thought she saw the father that day at noon covered in blood, when it was someone else?
The uncle and father seem to be close height....
Also if a child sees an intruder from their house, i would think it makes more sense that if they thought they might know the intruder (who was disguised maybe?) they would follow him a little and call dad or mom.
As opposed to phoning 911 asap.

Also, to take in consideration a 12 year old could do this (there's been cases of younger)
However they usually lack the ability to "cover up" after their crimes.
Does a 12 year old's mind go far enough to plot when and where and how to rid of the knives and possible clothing? If that were to be the case.
The majority of 12 year olds that do get arrested for murder, usually get arrested very quickly as they don't know how to perfect crimes at all.
Also it has been known that it is very hard for children to keep a lie.

Here is a great link for photos of the vigil and the family:

http://www.recordnet.com/apps/pbcs....=501009999&Ref=PH&Presentation=desktop#img-21

http://www.recordnet.com/apps/pbcs....=501009999&Ref=PH&Presentation=desktop#img-14

There are several different pages that show the family.
In one picture, it seems J has his hand gripping the hair of the 12 year old's head (this is photo 19 of 33 (page 4 of 6 in pictures)

The main family pics are on pages 2-4. The uncle and J seem to be touching the 12 year old, possibly to "stabilize?" him. I'm assuming he's medicated, they said he's in shock.
The older daughter looks just like the mother.

My prayers for the family...
Click to expand...

Well... If the 12 year old did this... He will be caught. Law enforcement would want to rule out every other possibility. Or they would be accused of not looking at other possibilities... Rush to judgement etc..


Hopefully, whoever did this .. Will be caught.





Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
LIVE PRESSER: http://fox40.com/Live/

SGT HEWETT

SHERRIF GARY KUNTZ INTRODUCED

WE’RE STILL WRKING ON CASE; FBI STILL INVOLVED

CON’T TO ELIMINATE SUSPECTS

DNA TAKES TWO WKS TO PROCESS; STILL AWAITING RESULTS

WILL NOT REST UNTIL JUSTICE SERVED


QUESTIONS:

DNA LEFT AT SCENE BY SOMEONE ELSE? YES

WHO? WE DON’T KNOW YET.

ALWAYS GOOD TO LOCK UP

PERSON IN COMMUNITY STILL? VERY WELL COULD BE…

WHAT TELLS YOU? FROM WHAT WE SEE, THE MVMT & STUFF, PATROLS…

STILL LOOKING FOR VAGUE DESCR SUSPECT (GRAY HAIR, BLUE PTS, ETC.)?
YES. STILL CREDIBLE --BOY’S DESCRIPTION.

RULED OUT BLOODY MAN.

HOW CLOSE TO ARREST? I FEEL WE’RE GETTING CLOSER EV DAY; RELYING ON PHYSICAL EVID, PRINTS, ETC.

SUSPECT STILL IN CALAVERAS CTY, STILL?

WHAT I SAID WAS IT’S LIKELY HE IS STILL HERE; THOUGH HE MAY NOT BE, IF THAT MAKES ANY SENSE...

FRUSTRATED? WE’RE LOOKING FOR THAT ONE BREAK.

FBI IS FRESH SET OF EYES—HAVE COME UP W/ PROFILE? WE’RE WORKING ON THAT NOW.

AREA WILL CONT TO BE CLOSED OFF FROM TIME TO TIME. (LOOKING FOR EVIDNCE)

NHBR DEEMED UNCREDIBLE AS WOULDN’T SIT WITH SKETCH ARTIST—HAS 12-YR OLD SAT DOWN W/ ONE? UH…. (SOMEONE ELSE SAYS, “WE’RE WORKING ON THAT.”)

HAD THEY HAD PAST PROBS AT PREVIOUS ADDRESS? I HAVEN’T EXPLORED THAT YET.

PUBLIC IS NOT AS RISK: ELABORATE? I FEEL THAT THE SUSPECT, EVEN IF HE WAS IN THE AREA WOULD NOT BE IN THAT PARTICULAR AREA AT THIS TIME. I FEEL HE MAY NOT EVEN BE IN THE AREA.

I DON’T HAVE AN IDENTITY ON THIS PERSON, NO, WISH I DID.

WITNESS WHO RECANTED—DO YOU KNOW WHY SHE SAID WHAT SHE SAID? SOMETIMES PEOPLE LIKE TO GET INVOLVED. …THANK YOU FOR COMING TODAY.

IN REGARDS TO THE SKETCHES, THAT IS ONE AVENUE WE ARE EXPLORING. WE CAN’T SAY WE’RE GETTING THAT INFO, YET. WE’RE GOING TO GO AHEAD AND MAKE THAT THE LAST QUESTION. NEXT BRIEFING 1:30 TOMORROW.
 
that's odd about joining in 2008 and not posting until 5 years later...you woudl think the site would purge inactive members or something. Maybe something is wonky with the site, didn't a post have 4 million thanks the other day or something like that?
 
eileenhawkeye said:
What would be wrong about the media asking at the briefing...how many points of entrance are there on the house?
Click to expand...

<modsnip> I think it illustrates the problems of the commercial media doing LE work:

1: It's mostly meaningless. My house, counting windows, has well over 20 "points of entrance". Further, the question might lead the public in a direction that's just plain wrong. Or maybe just the "Well -- they were asking for it" crowd would just toss barbs at the family without even thinking that "20" is a reasonable number for a house.

2: There could also be a potential problem with such information being out in the public domain and it may taint a jury pool -- not just your single factoid, but all your questions in toto. "Insecure house, parents work a lot, big house, etc etc etc... could have been anyone, my client WAS in the backyard - he jumped over the fence to get a drink from the hose -- but that's all". Pick your own story and POOF, the potential for reasonable doubt.

3: Outside of whatever needs LE has in their investigation, the number of doors and windows of my house are none of your business.

Let the defense do their own work. No need to hand them a huge pile of mundane data which could be twisted.
 
PoirotryInMotion said:
LIVE PRESSER: http://fox40.com/Live/

SGT HEWETT

SHERRIF GARY KUNTZ INTRODUCED

WE’RE STILL WRKING ON CASE; FBI STILL INVOLVED

CON’T TO ELIMINATE SUSPECTS

DNA TAKES TWO WKS TO PROCESS; STILL AWAITING RESULTS

WILL NOT REST UNTIL JUSTICE SERVED


QUESTIONS:

DNA LEFT AT SCENE BY SOMEONE ELSE? YES

WHO? WE DON’T KNOW YET.

ALWAYS GOOD TO LOCK UP

PERSON IN COMMUNITY STILL? VERY WELL COULD BE…

WHAT TELLS YOU? FROM WHAT WE SEE, THE MVMT & STUFF, PATROLS…

STILL LOOKING FOR VAGUE DESCR SUSPECT (GRAY HAIR, BLUE PTS, ETC.)?
YES. STILL CREDIBLE --BOY’S DESCRIPTION.

RULED OUT BLOODY MAN.

HOW CLOSE TO ARREST? I FEEL WE’RE GETTING CLOSER EV DAY; RELYING ON PHYSICAL EVID, PRINTS, ETC.

SUSPECT STILL IN CALAVERAS CTY, STILL?

WHAT I SAID WAS IT’S LIKELY HE IS STILL HERE; THOUGH HE MAY NOT BE, IF THAT MAKES ANY SENSE...

FRUSTRATED? WE’RE LOOKING FOR THAT ONE BREAK.

FBI IS FRESH SET OF EYES—HAVE COME UP W/ PROFILE? WE’RE WORKING ON THAT NOW.

AREA WILL CONT TO BE CLOSED OFF FROM TIME TO TIME. (LOOKING FOR EVIDNCE)

NHBR DEEMED UNCREDIBLE AS WOULDN’T SIT WITH SKETCH ARTIST—HAS 12-YR OLD SAT DOWN W/ ONE? UH…. (SOMEONE ELSE SAYS, “WE’RE WORKING ON THAT.”)

HAD THEY HAD PAST PROBS AT PREVIOUS ADDRESS? I HAVEN’T EXPLORED THAT YET.

PUBLIC IS NOT AS RISK: ELABORATE? I FEEL THAT THE SUSPECT, EVEN IF HE WAS IN THE AREA WOULD NOT BE IN THAT PARTICULAR AREA AT THIS TIME. I FEEL HE MAY NOT EVEN BE IN THE AREA.

I DON’T HAVE AN IDENTITY ON THIS PERSON, NO, WISH I DID.

WITNESS WHO RECANTED—DO YOU KNOW WHY SHE SAID WHAT SHE SAID? SOMETIMES PEOPLE LIKE TO GET INVOLVED. …THANK YOU FOR COMING TODAY.

IN REGARDS TO THE SKETCHES, THAT IS ONE AVENUE WE ARE EXPLORING. WE CAN’T SAY WE’RE GETTING THAT INFO, YET. WE’RE GOING TO GO AHEAD AND MAKE THAT THE LAST QUESTION. NEXT BRIEFING 1:30 TOMORROW.
Click to expand...

Well that settles a lot for me at this time. Honestly, it really does. He has no idea if the perp is or isn't in the area and he doesn't know yet who the perp is. But I think they have DNA and prints from someone other than the family (he said that right?) and that as soon as they find out who those belong to, they will have their man.

In my opinion everything he has said points directly AWAY from the 12 year old brother.
 
TheDuchess said:
Well that settles a lot for me at this time. Honestly, it really does. He has no idea if the perp is or isn't in the area and he doesn't know yet who the perp is. But I think they have DNA and prints from someone other than the family (he said that right?) and that as soon as they find out who those belong to, they will have their man.

In my opinion everything he has said points directly AWAY from the 12 year old brother.
Click to expand...

It sounds like they have DNA but it's not back from the lab yet. Therefore, they have no way of knowing who's DNA it is. It could be a family member, which wouldn't mean anything since they live in the house. Or it could be foreign DNA. It could be the DNA of an aunt or uncle, who had been in the house but had nothing to do with the murder.
 
Hello, all! I'm new here. I've been reading through all 30 pages and have a few questions. Please excuse my naivety, when it comes to some of the vernacular here! Could you help me with what a few things mean?
PO- Person of interest?
LE- Law Enforcement?
MOO- No idea!!

Also, I am a bit confused about the usage of the term"foreign DNA." I have always assumed that "foreign" meant foreign to the victim. Are they meaning foreign DNA, as completely foreign to anymore in the family or anyone closely related to the crime scene? Do we even know, exactly what they mean...since they have no received lab results back?

Thanks so much! I am really impressed with the respectful discussion here :) Such a heartbreaking story. I've held my little one a bit closer lately.
 
blue22 said:
Hello, all! I'm new here. I've been reading through all 30 pages and have a few questions. Please excuse my naivety, when it comes to some of the vernacular here! Could you help me with what a few things mean?
PO- Person of interest?
LE- Law Enforcement?
MOO- No idea!!

Also, I am a bit confused about the usage of the term"foreign DNA." I have always assumed that "foreign" meant foreign to the victim. Are they meaning foreign DNA, as completely foreign to anymore in the family or anyone closely related to the crime scene? Do we even know, exactly what they mean...since they have no received lab results back?

Thanks so much! I am really impressed with the respectful discussion here :) Such a heartbreaking story. I've held my little one a bit closer lately.
Click to expand...

POI=Person of Interest
LE=Law Enforcement
MOO=My Own Opinion or IMO=In my Option or JMO=Just my Opinion or IMHO=In my Honest Opinion

I think there is a websleuths jargon thread somewhere with more info.
 
TheDuchess said:
POI=Person of Interest
LE=Law Enforcement
MOO=My Own Opinion or IMO=In my Option or JMO=Just my Opinion or IMHO=In my Honest Opinion

I think there is a websleuths jargon thread somewhere with more info.
Click to expand...

First time I've seen the step-brother term used. That would indicate they are not related at all. We know they are a blended family, but LE has been using the term "brother" all along.

ETA-I honestly can't think of how he would be her step brother, he must be at least a 1/2 brother. I can't imagine the child would be living with the parents if he is not related to either of them.
 
Jhon said:
<modsnip> I think it illustrates the problems of the commercial media doing LE work:

1: It's mostly meaningless. My house, counting windows, has well over 20 "points of entrance". Further, the question might lead the public in a direction that's just plain wrong. Or maybe just the "Well -- they were asking for it" crowd would just toss barbs at the family without even thinking that "20" is a reasonable number for a house.

2: There could also be a potential problem with such information being out in the public domain and it may taint a jury pool -- not just your single factoid, but all your questions in toto. "Insecure house, parents work a lot, big house, etc etc etc... could have been anyone, my client WAS in the backyard - he jumped over the fence to get a drink from the hose -- but that's all". Pick your own story and POOF, the potential for reasonable doubt.

3: Outside of whatever needs LE has in their investigation, the number of doors and windows of my house are none of your business.

Let the defense do their own work. No need to hand them a huge pile of mundane data which could be twisted.
Click to expand...

This is a sleuthing forum. The whole point of this forum is to talk about things like how the intruder entered the house, what the family was doing before the murder happened, whether this was a weekly routine, whether someone at the parents' jobs could have done this, etc. Wanting to know the answers to those questions is pretty much what this forum is about.

And the police already created reasonable doubt on their own with the whole witnesses thing. One witness discredited, only vague description of the intruder, etc. But my client isn't 6 feet tall....Anyway, if they catch this intruder, they should have physical evidence against him so I don't see how an attorney is going to get his client acquitted by saying he was just in the backyard...but what about the foreign DNA on the knife that belonged to your client?
 
TheDuchess said:
First time I've seen the step-brother term used. That would indicate they are not related at all. We know they are a blended family, but LE has been using the term "brother" all along.
Click to expand...

Same here. Not that it matters, just was wondering if it was a mistake?


All JMO
 
I just want to repost this to clear up some misunderstanding. Many people think the person that report to give a man a ride was the woman witness. No, it is "he", a male.

The woman witness was the one that said she saw the intruder run out (LE said her source might not be credible since she refuse to give a sketch)

" Raw Video Calaveras County News Conference on Murdered Eight Year Old Girl "
Please search the above in Google and you will see the Youtube interview.

The person that said he give a bloody man a ride, is a male. Not the woman witness neighbor.
This is a true story, that male did not lie.

Watch the Youtube at 3:45 and hear the sheriff speak.
The sheriff said that, they have already check into that. Talk to the person who report, and also check and talk the bloody man, and track address where he was drop off. Sheriff said that that man just happen to injured, the blood was from an personal injury, and it not related to Leila's case. The sheriff also said that they rule out that bloody man as a suspect. So maybe it just coincidentally.

So that was not 5 minutes of frame, it's true. I don't think anymore would dare to toy with the police in the murder case like this, that male did indeed give the injury man a ride.
 
blue22 said:
Hello, all! I'm new here. I've been reading through all 30 pages and have a few questions. Please excuse my naivety, when it comes to some of the vernacular here! Could you help me with what a few things mean?
PO- Person of interest?
LE- Law Enforcement?
MOO- No idea!!

Also, I am a bit confused about the usage of the term"foreign DNA." I have always assumed that "foreign" meant foreign to the victim. Are they meaning foreign DNA, as completely foreign to anymore in the family or anyone closely related to the crime scene? Do we even know, exactly what they mean...since they have no received lab results back?

Thanks so much! I am really impressed with the respectful discussion here :) Such a heartbreaking story. I've held my little one a bit closer lately.
Click to expand...
Hi blue22! Welcome to Websleuths!
 
eileenhawkeye said:
This is a sleuthing forum. The whole point of this forum is to talk about things like how the intruder entered the house, what the family was doing before the murder happened, whether this was a weekly routine, whether someone at the parents' jobs could have done this, etc. Wanting to know the answers to those questions is pretty much what this forum is about.
Click to expand...

Wanting answers to those questions that are truly none of your business and wanting the commercial media to publicly focus on private family business are two different things. You are more than welcome to WANT to know my shoe size. You will be told, however, that it's none of your business. If you are interested in that information, why not follow my original suggestion and contact local law enforcement and request it? Why desire the media to subject so much focus of their limited time directly on the family rather than finding the person(s) who did this?

Last time I'm going to reference this here, but Richard Jewell fairly defined the ethical limits of the commercial media which is probably why they aren't focusing on mundane family business the way you desired.

<modsnip>.

Thanks!
 
Welcome to Websleuths, QuestionMark!

 
Jhon said:
Wanting answers to those questions that are truly none of your business and wanting the commercial media to publicly focus on private family business are two different things. You are more than welcome to WANT to know my shoe size. You will be told, however, that it's none of your business.

Last time I'm going to reference this here, but Richard Jewell fairly defined the ethical limits of the commercial media which is probably why they aren't focusing on mundane family business the way you desired.

<modsnip>.

Thanks!
Click to expand...

This entire forum could be summed up in "none of our business" although I don't agree with that. Wanting to know whether this was a weekly routine is not the same as wanting to know what your shoe size is. This point of this forum is to try to figure out what happens in unsolved cases.

Like I said before, don't make a local story into a national media event if you don't want people talking about it and asking questions.

Wanting to know what Leila was doing in the hours and days before her abduction because someone might have saw her...What does that have to do with Richard Jewell?
 
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