GUILTY CA - Leila Fowler, 8, murdered, 12yo charged, Valley Springs, 27 Apr 2013 - #3

[Victor]

(Sorry if this has been covered, but I don't have time to read the dozens of posts from the last 2 days.)

With the total absence of info given by the police on any evidence used to arrest the son, I offer this theory:

Before the kid's arrest they took out as evidence wood (I believe an article says it was firewood) from the family's garage. This leads me to theorize that the son may have burned his bloody clothes and other evidence in the family fireplace before the cops came.

Thus, the cops may have found DNA or blood from him or Leila in the remaining woodpile. If they found traces of Leila's blood mixed with IF's DNA on the wood that would be very incriminating evidence that he grabbed the wood after Leila's murder to burn. And if he told the cops that he didn't start a fire in the fireplace after he found his sister's body, then they would know they caught him in a major lie. :websleuther:

Thoughts?

 

[Donjeta]

Before Leila's death, the boy's middle school in Valley Springs suspended him for five days after he brought a small pocketknife to school, according to one of the boy's classmates. That account was backed up by a school administration source.

Authorities haven't revealed what kind of knife was used in Leila's death, which happened April 27 inside the family home in Valley Springs.

Read more: http://www.kmbc.com/news/national/S...20127176/-/ul4i86z/-/index.html#ixzz2THqHFR5V

If the weapon was a small pocket knife it might partly explain the 21 stab wounds if it wasn't a very efficient weapon so he had to do more to kill her, as opposed to leaving her bloody and injured and able to tell what happened.

 

[Linda7NJ]

(Sorry if this has been covered, but I don't have time to read the dozens of posts from the last 2 days.)

With the total absence of info given by the police on any evidence used to arrest the son, I offer this theory:

Before the kid's arrest they took out as evidence wood (I believe an article says it was firewood) from the family's garage. This leads me to theorize that the son may have burned his bloody clothes and other evidence in the family fireplace before the cops came.

Thus, the cops may have found DNA or blood from him or Leila in the remaining woodpile. If they found traces of Leila's blood mixed with IF's DNA on the wood that would be very incriminating evidence that he grabbed the wood after Leila's murder to burn. And if he told the cops that he didn't start a fire in the fireplace after he found his sister's body, then they would know they caught him in a major lie. :websleuther:

Thoughts?

I have no idea. I can't / wont speculate.


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[Dee10]

"The boy is being held at a juvenile detention facility awaiting charges. Prosecutors are awaiting full reports from the Sheriff’s Department before they consider charging the boy with murder, an official from the Calaveras County district attorney’s office said in a message left on the office’s voicemail."

Read more: http://www.latimes.com/local/lanow/la-me-ln-leila-fowler-murder-charges-20130514,0,7234257.story

 

[ShadyLadySleuth]

A huge part to me is the fact she was sooo much younger, weaker and smaller than him. Its absolutely depraved.
I do believe it was planned.
We gave heard nothing about anger issues, holes punched in the walls, etc...
He simply hated her that day.


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I agree Linda, and he may be a budding psychopath in the making. The lying, acting "normal" afterward, the cover-up afterward. He may have seen his sister as an object that day who thwarted his own plans, so he "got rid" of the problem.

But all of the above is only "IF HE DID IT." We still don't know exactly what happened that day.

Feel so bad for the other kids and parents in this family!!

 

[Elainera]

If the victim is smaller and weaker than the attacker, is it unreasonable that she was being held face down, and stabbed in the back, possibly thru sweatshirt and such? If there wasn't a frenzy, would there be splatter and spray? Not trying to be so graphic, but I can see the attacker not being totally covered in blood and able to clean himself up.

respectfully snipped

Wasn't she stabbed in the face, or am I confusing this with another case now?

Umm, creepy thought but he could have used one of those knives that has a hand guard at the base of the handle. I don't know what it is called but I've seen this kind. It's a metal piece that sticks out on each side so your hand doesn't slide down.

As for the blood spattered clothes, if it was premeditated he could have taken everything off except his underwear, or even naked. A quick shower and the blood is gone.

Hmm, that raises the question of bloody footprints. How did he not leave tracks to the shower of that's what he did?

I wonder, what room was she killed in?

MOO


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So far we have reports that she was killed in her bedroom.

I know what kind of hand guard you mean. Yes that is possibility.

A quick shower would leave his hair wet though. Or did he wait until it was dry before calling his dad?

I can't imagine a 12 y/o thinking that far ahead to take his clothes off before stabbing someone to death to avoid blood spatter.

 

[tlcya]

They never even used to fight when they were little,” Priscilla Rodriguez told CBS Sacramento in an interview on the eve of the boy's arrest. “I would never see him be mean to her.”

“I seen him at the vigil, he came up to me and I hugged him and held him so tight,” Rodriguez said. “I told him I loved him and was sorry this happened to his sister.”

http://www.latimes.com/local/lanow/la-me-ln-leila-fowler-arrest-brother-20130513,0,5319936.story

 

[Dee10]

Does anyone know how long police hold him without charging him?

 

[Linda7NJ]

Wasn't she stabbed in the face, or am I confusing this with another case now?



So far we have reports that she was killed in her bedroom.

I know what kind of hand guard you mean. Yes that is possibility.

A quick shower would leave his hair wet though. Or did he wait until it was dry before calling his dad?

I can't imagine a 12 y/o thinking that far ahead to take his clothes off before stabbing someone to death to avoid blood spatter.

Perhaps his clothes were off in preparation of something else.


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[Linda7NJ]

Does anyone know how long police hold him without charging him?

The juvenile system is much different than the adult system. I honestly don't know if it varies state to state. Here in NJ there really isn't a set time. There is also no bail opportunity and no jury.


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[gitana1]

I want to explain a few things in light of people thinking IF must have professionally cleaned up or LE would have arrested him on the spot because to do otherwise would be to leave a dangerous killer in the home.

First, the police may know immediately that a person likely did it and could pose a danger. However, without probable cause to issue an arrest warrant, they cannot arrest them, no matter how dangerous that person may seem to them. And in this case, that could mean that the boy explained why he was covered in blood and that they needed a blood spatter expert to analyze clothes, for example. That could also mean that there was no, visible blood and the boy said he did not go near the body, but then they found a spot or two on clothes discarded in his room, or on his person, and sent it to be tested to see if it was Leila's. And BTW, it is possible for someone to stab another to death and not have more than a few drops of blood on them. It just is.

Second, even with probable cause, the district attorney may not authorize and arrest right away for fear the case lacks sufficient evidence for a conviction. (I think that has happened in Kyron Horman's case). Thus, in this case, the independent witness making a contradictory statement may have put a wrench in the plan to arrest, especially without overwhelming physical evidence or a confession. That's because the speedy trial right clock begins ticking right after an arrest.

Oh and those who claim he must have cuts on his hands due to stabbing someone to death are just wrong. That can happen and but it is not a requirement. Take the case of 13 year old Billy Keenan who stabbed two neighbor girls to death. He had no cuts, (although he did have some blood spatter on his jeans - not huge piles of blood all over himself as some think is necessary, BTW, just a bit of blood spatter on his jeans). Loss of Innocence: A True Story of Juvenile Murder: Eric J. Adams: 9780380759873: Amazon.com: Books

I think that in this case there was blood evidence but they needed an expert to analyze it. I think that the neighbor's statement caused a huge delay in an arrest. I think the lack of a confession right away also slowed things down.

I do not assume this kid was a cool and calculating murderer with sophistication beyond his years who easily hid evidence and hid his involvement. I think there was enough there that they knew he was the one but not enough to arrest and/or for the prosecutor to authorize an arrest. I also think he has now confessed.

 

[vasportsmom]

Perhaps his clothes were off in preparation of something else.


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THIS!! But what if it wasn't the sister he was undressed for? The neighbor lying is very curious to me - unless she had reason to cover something up. How many women have been arrested lately for becoming sexually involved with young boys? Perhaps L just walked in on the wrong thing...

 

[RANCH]

UPDATE: Leila Fowler’s Dad Wants Evidence For Son’s Arrest

VALLEY SPRINGS (AP) — The father of a 12-year-old boy accused of fatally stabbing his 8-year-old sister said Monday he will believe his son is innocent until he sees evidence that proves otherwise.

http://sacramento.cbslocal.com/2013/05/13/leila-fowlers-dad-wants-evidence-for-sons-arrest/

 

[hollye]

I can only theorize, but maybe Leila "caught" him doing something that he thought wasn't supposed to, like masturbating. Maybe she said she was going to tell and maybe he thought he would get in trouble. Maybe she teased him, not really having known what he had been doing. He threatened her and she ran to her room, but continued the teasing and rage took over in him. Maybe he hurt her and then realized that he needed to complete the "task" in another attempt to not get in trouble.

That is the only thing that I can think of.

FWIW, while I had in the back of my mind that he was the likeliest suspect, I did not see a killer in his face in the vigil photos. I saw a scared boy in shock and trying to mentally check out from the horror that he had bestowed upon his family.

Maybe I am just not a very good judge of character.

All is, as always, JMOO.

 

[hollye]

Oh and those who claim he must have cuts on his hands due to stabbing someone to death are just wrong. That can happen and but it is not a requirement. Take the case of 13 year old Billy Keenan who stabbed two neighbor girls to death. He had no cuts, (although he did have some blood spatter on his jeans - not huge piles of blood all over himself as some think is necessary, BTW, just a bit of blood spatter on his jeans). Loss of Innocence: A True Story of Juvenile Murder: Eric J. Adams: 9780380759873: Amazon.com: Books

Thank you so much for posting this gitana! Not only because I agree with you, but also because I have been trying to remember the name of the book and the name of this boy for years now and had been unable to. This is a story that has stuck with me over the years and I just could not recall enough to locate the book again.

 

[Linda7NJ]

UPDATE: Leila Fowler’s Dad Wants Evidence For Son’s Arrest



http://sacramento.cbslocal.com/2013/05/13/leila-fowlers-dad-wants-evidence-for-sons-arrest/

Id expect nothing less from a good parent.


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[BeginnersLuck]

If a family member is involved it also has to be difficult to consider whether the blood was on the family member from trying to help the victim, holding their body, or if they were actually involved in the crime itself.

It would take much more in depth analysis to determine the difference, if possible.

I'm sorry, but the custody issue bothers me so much. I don't know how far apart the bio mom lived or what was going on, but if she would have been watching them instead of them being left home alone........I know I shouldn't be saying this and I am really not blaming anyone because I don't know the circumstances. It's just in my thoughts.

 

[gitana1]

Thank you so much for posting this gitana! Not only because I agree with you, but also because I have been trying to remember the name of the book and the name of this boy for years now and had been unable to. This is a story that has stuck with me over the years and I just could not recall enough to locate the book again.

Yeah, I went through that, looking for the book as well for years after I lost it. It is an interesting book because it gives tons of detail about the murderer's behavior the day of the murders and after, how he confessed, how he began rapidly chewing his finger nails when the cops told him they would be searching for evidence under the nails, and finally, it has a ton of info about his rehabilitation process and what it was like in Colorado.

I thought it was an extensive and very intensive program. I think IF needs something like that if he is to be released at age 25. But I don't think we have anything that compares. For example, photos of the little girls he murdered were placed in his cell and he was forced to acknowledge what he did to them.

Sad to say, with that murderer, whose real name is AC, rehabilitation was not successful. His family relocated to California after he was released (at a young age - I can't remember but this case was pivotal in changing Colorado's laws and allowing young people to be tried as adults there). He was caught slashing some tires, or stealing tires, IIRC.

Then, about ten years ago, he was arrested and ultimately sent to prison for domestic violence, beating his girlfriend, threatening her with a sword or something and taunting her the night before at a camp out, telling her he had murdered two little girls when he was a boy. Very, very scary. he spent four years in prison for that and now resides somewhere in Ventura county. He is 44 years of age.

Here are some articles about the case: http://news.google.com/newspapers?n...HpiAAAAIBAJ&sjid=aHcNAAAAIBAJ&pg=4266,4126920

http://www.thefreelibrary.com/DOUBLE+MURDERER+GETS+NEW+SENTENCE+IN+ASSAULT.-a083392231

I think that kids who murder unrelated people are often quite different from those like AC who was stalking prey to kill. I think their motives and the level of their evil can often be quite different. However, it's hard to tell. IF could be the same species as AC. I hope they can fix him.

 

[mysteriew]

In regards to the raised money, perhaps the family could do something for the school in memorial of Leila .. new books for the library, or update the grounds in some way, that way all monies raised could go back to the community and still honour their daughter. It would be messy to try and give it back in any other way.

Scholarships to camps or even scholarships to college.

Donations to children's charities.

 

[Elainera]

I want to explain a few things in light of people thinking IF must have professionally cleaned up or LE would have arrested him on the spot because to do otherwise would be to leave a dangerous killer in the home.

First, the police may know immediately that a person likely did it and could pose a danger. However, without probable cause to issue an arrest warrant, they cannot arrest them, no matter how dangerous that person may seem to them. And in this case, that could mean that the boy explained why he was covered in blood and that they needed a blood spatter expert to analyze clothes, for example. That could also mean that there was no, visible blood and the boy said he did not go near the body, but then they found a spot or two on clothes discarded in his room, or on his person, and sent it to be tested to see if it was Leila's. And BTW, it is possible for someone to stab another to death and not have more than a few drops of blood on them. It just is.

Second, even with probable cause, the district attorney may not authorize and arrest right away for fear the case lacks sufficient evidence for a conviction. (I think that has happened in Kyron Horman's case). Thus, in this case, the independent witness making a contradictory statement may have put a wrench in the plan to arrest, especially without overwhelming physical evidence or a confession. That's because the speedy trial right clock begins ticking right after an arrest.

Oh and those who claim he must have cuts on his hands due to stabbing someone to death are just wrong. That can happen and but it is not a requirement. Take the case of 13 year old Billy Keenan who stabbed two neighbor girls to death. He had no cuts, (although he did have some blood spatter on his jeans - not huge piles of blood all over himself as some think is necessary, BTW, just a bit of blood spatter on his jeans). Loss of Innocence: A True Story of Juvenile Murder: Eric J. Adams: 9780380759873: Amazon.com: Books

I think that in this case there was blood evidence but they needed an expert to analyze it. I think that the neighbor's statement caused a huge delay in an arrest. I think the lack of a confession right away also slowed things down.

I do not assume this kid was a cool and calculating murderer with sophistication beyond his years who easily hid evidence and hid his involvement. I think there was enough there that they knew he was the one but not enough to arrest and/or for the prosecutor to authorize an arrest. I also think he has now confessed.

Thank you Gitana. That makes a lot of sense.