GUILTY CA - Leila Fowler, 8, murdered, 12yo charged, Valley Springs, 27 Apr 2013 - #4

[blue22]

I did see this elsewhere that they were considering it, but not that they necessarily intended it.

FYI-I deleted the full name of the minor in your post. You may want to go back and edit yours as well.

Thank you, I removed the entire name. I didn't even think of that, sorry!!

 

[TheDuchess]

I have a what-if question someone might be able to answer (paging Gitana!):

WHAT IF: that defense worked? WHAT IF charges are dismissed due to his age or immaturity? Then what happens? If charges get dismissed he is as free as he was before correct? Would he just go back him with CW and BF? Back to school?

Just curious!

I don't know all of the laws in California, but I do remember discussing the case of the 8 year old in Arizona. In that case, this defense can be a slippery slope, as if it is determined that the juvenile is too young to be tried, the charges can be dismissed "without prejudice" meaning that they can always go back and recharge the juvenile at a later time, once he can be established as capable of standing trial. I know in that particular case, there was the option of trying him as an adult, but in this case, we know he can't be tried as an adult. The scary thing with that, and what put the juvenile in a precarious situation for the defense was that an 8 year old will eventually grow up into a teenager, who would look like an adult-facial hair, deep voice, tall stature, etc...which would make them look far more menacing to a jury than would an 8 year old.

I think that may be an issue for IF as well. Right now, although tall, he has a baby face. Will declaring him unfit to stand trial now, only to be prosecuted later backfire, as he looks more like a "man?" I would imagine a judge could look past that easier than say a jury, but you never know what it might affect.

 

[Kaliste]

Has anyone been able to find much about the court appearance today?

 

[Octopus' Garden]

I can agree with much of what you say about Mom. My DD has a three year old and is not with the bio Dad. Bio Dad has a GF. GF talks to DD about GS, what he is doing, issues and how they are handling them. She makes suggestions and she listens to what works for us. She is good with him. But she never tries to supplant my DD. She will tell you DD is his Mom. In return both DD and I have told her and bio Dad how much we appreciate her being in GS's life.

I cannot see her ever telling anyone (esp media) that "she" wants to be considered his "Mom." Though we do consider her his "Mom" away from Mom.
(LOL we were at a fundraiser a while back and I was playing Bingo. The three of them came in and asked me if I would watch him for a minute. When I said no I got a lot of looks. Cause I said no there are three parents here, there should be no need for me to watch him. They laughed and went away.)
Point being, though she stands in for Mom, she doesn't try to replace Mom. And that is what I am seeing here. A GF (apparently a short time GF at that) seems to be trying to replace Mom. I don't know if that was her idea or the Dad's. But it could cause a lot of pain and confusion for the kids.

Whatever CW's actual wishes or how they were worded has been digested first through LE ( ever read a police report & some of these LE people are not all that smart or mature, even with adequate experience) and media, and then take under consideration her state of mind at the moment...grief, shock, denial. I am sure she really loved LF even if just for a short time and felt like she lost her own.

JMO Children should be raised by their own mothers even in some not so savory situations. MOO

 

[The Cheese]

Laura Anthony ‏@LauraAnthony7 49m KGO reporter
12 year old denies charges he killed his 8 year old sister Leila Fowler in 3 minute court hearing in Calaveras
Co. Same as not guilty plea.

Laura Anthony ‏@LauraAnthony7 49m
Attorneys for 12 year old boy accused of killing his sister did not ask for the boy to be released to his family.

 

[Tennlyn]

Laura Anthony ‏@LauraAnthony7 49m KGO reporter
12 year old denies charges he killed his 8 year old sister Leila Fowler in 3 minute court hearing in Calaveras
Co. Same as not guilty plea.

Laura Anthony ‏@LauraAnthony7 49m
Attorneys for 12 year old boy accused of killing his sister did not ask for the boy to be released to his family.

BBM

So IF didn't do it, but they don't want him to come home?

Is anyone trying to get this child the help he needs? Even if he is innocent, IF is dealing with huge issues right now: not only the death of his sister, but also the separation from his family and the loss of his freedom.

 

[PoirotryInMotion]

BBM

So IF didn't do it, but they don't want him to come home?

Is anyone trying to get this child the help he needs? Even if he is innocent, IF is dealing with huge issues right now: not only the death of his sister, but also the separation from his family and the loss of his freedom.

Well, the judge hasn't ruled on whether or not he did it, and apparently decided not to allow him to post bail (go home) until the judicial hearing (next)--at which time he will rule.

I agree that IF is dealing with huge issues right now, and would expect the judge to see to it that he gets counseling whatever else he rules. One thing I thought of this morning, though...I gather the boy IS getting to see more of his bio mom than previously. Under less than ideal conditions, though.

 

[The Cheese]

Calaveras Enterprise ‏@Enterprise_Cal 11m
IF denies murder charge in today's hearing. http://www.calaverasenterprise.com/news/article_e142b106-c89f-11e2-ab3d-001a4bcf887a.html …

He was calm during the short hearing and appeared to be in good spirits.
Judge John E. Martin accepted the denial and remanded the boy back to a juvenile detention facility in El Dorado County, where he has been held since his arrest.
Martin set the next court hearing for 1:15 p.m., Wednesday, July 31.
Following the hearing, Fowler's attorneys held a press conference in which they maintained their client's innocence and questioned whether he was fit to stand trial, due to his age.

 

[Octopus' Garden]

http://www.recordnet.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20130529/A_NEWS/305290325
This one I posted earlier today says the same thing...
Reichel and co-defense attorney Steve Plesser have indicated they might file a motion to dismiss the charges, saying their client could be unfit to stand trial because of his age.

We'll probably find out more in about an hour or so, but he's seen the evidence by now, so maybe he feels this is the only thing he can do.

Thanks, my searching efforts lack; out of that frustration I am thankful to have been able to obtain information from this site since the beginning of the LF tragedy.

 

[eileenhawkeye]

The law says that 12-year-olds are fit to stand trial in juvenile court. So I would think to get a case dismissed because of age, the law would need to be changed. Any change would not affect IF's case. So it seems to me that it wouldn't be possible for this case to be dismissed simply because of IF's age. Maybe the lawyers will get a more lenient sentence by arguing IF is very young, or will get him into some rehab program. But for the judge to say that he's releasing IF to his parents because he is too young...I really doubt that is a possible scenario.

Maybe I am mistaken, but I think that the lawyers would have to appeal this case to the California Supreme Court, where they would then rule that 12-year-olds are not old enough to be charged with murder, and then the law would be changed...Now, I really don't see that happening here...

 

[Linda7NJ]

http://www.recordnet.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20130529/A_NEWS/305290325
This one I posted earlier today says the same thing...
Reichel and co-defense attorney Steve Plesser have indicated they might file a motion to dismiss the charges, saying their client could be unfit to stand trial because of his age.

We'll probably find out more in about an hour or so, but he's seen the evidence by now, so maybe he feels this is the only thing he can do.

IMO that's not going to fly.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[MsFacetious]

Age doesn't matter.
I was moved out at 17, taking care of 2 special needs babies on my own by 19.
Then we have other 19 year old girls who are partying all the time.

Every child is different. There are some 13 year old girls who can babysit and some who NEED a babysitter.
I don't think his age will matter so much as his maturity, his understanding, things like that. :twocents:

 

[Octopus' Garden]

From today's hearing:CALAVERAS COUNTY—

IF’s attorneys have entered a denial of allegation plea for the 12-year-old accused of murdering his 8-year-old sister, Leila, Wednesday afternoon.

The boy will be back in court in July for trial. His attorneys noted that they have over 1,000 hours of police work to look through.

A denial of allegation plea is equivalent to a not guilty plea, only for minors.

Isaiah remains in custody. His attorneys did not petition to get him out of custody at this time, as his home situation is in question. Isaiah’s family was in the process of moving when the incident took place.

Ben Deci will have more on this story at 5:30. Make sure to watch FOX40 News.

Cecilio Padilla contributed to this report.



Read more: http://fox40.com/2013/05/29/isaiah-fowlers-attorneys-enter-not-guilty-plea/#ixzz2UjT31xzn

 

[mysteriew]

When the "incident" took place, the family was in the process of moving? That is new info isn't it?

 

[Scottndianner]

IIRC they were in escrow when the murder occurred...I may have read that info from comments from folks in the community...I have no link to provide, so take it for what it is worth...:twocents:

 

[winterrose]

Neighbors said people would rent it and they wouldn't stay long. Is it just a small house? Anyway, I thought they had lived around the same school area, but moved into that house after the summer.

 

[Beagle]

IMO that is a pretty common defense for a young minor. And some times it works. There are 12 year old's and there are 12 year olds. And they aren't always the same. They will try to prove that this 12 year old was emotionally and maybe intellectually immature. That he had problems with understanding intent, or the results of his actions.

One point against this, is that he was old enough and mature enough to look after his sister on his own.

 

[eileenhawkeye]

Neighbors said people would rent it and they wouldn't stay long. Is it just a small house? Anyway, I thought they had lived around the same school area, but moved into that house after the summer.

I think it was said they were living near Jenny Lind during Summer 2012.

In the PI's blog, they said that when they went to the home, it was all torn up by LE. I wonder...who is in charge of paying for all that? The person who owns the place needs the house back in good condition before they can offer it to other renters. Do they have to include whether a murder happened in a house in California? I guess in a way the family is lucky they were renting it because they would probably have a very hard time trying to sell it.

 

[tlcya]

a good answer to that question can be found in the Zahra Baker threads. That family was in a rental that belonged to the father's employer. They ended up leveling the house. It was trashed, drywall removed, pipes removed chunks of flooring taken by LE etc. Plus the notoriety made it not a likely place to be able to rent again anytime soon.

 

[eileenhawkeye]

a good answer to that question can be found in the Zahra Baker threads. That family was in a rental that belonged to the father's employer. They ended up leveling the house. It was trashed, drywall removed, pipes removed chunks of flooring taken by LE etc. Plus the notoriety made it not a likely place to be able to rent again anytime soon.

While I feel like many people would not want to live in that house, I think there would be some people who be interested especially if they could get a good deal on it. I figure the owner will have to lower the rent amount. I guess the owner should wait and see what happens, if they get any prospective renters, before they tear it down.