CA CA - Lompoc, WhtFem 16-25, 205UFCA, overbite, horseshoe earrings, Aug'69

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In the novel "Q is for Quarry", the fictitious victim's killer was female, but in the author's note at the end, there is mention of a man's Western-style shirt with blood stains on it found near the scene. This was left out of the novel, but I think it could provide a scenario as to what actually happened. The shirt may have belonged to her killer, he took off the shirt afterwards and left it there rather than be seen in a bloody shirt that could arouse suspicion. In the pre-DNA era, he could leave his shirt at the murder scene without much worry of it being traced to him. What I wonder is, would the DNA from that shirt be any good all these years later? If so, it could provide a possible clue to both the killer and the victim, like if the killer is on file for other crimes, or if any of the victim's relatives could match her DNA.
 
Several things I'd like to discuss. ( I hope there is still interest in this case, BTW).

1) Regarding the factual information in the Epilogue of Sue Grafton's book "Q Is For Quarry", she states this about the man's shirt found at the scene with the victim's body:
"There was, in fact, found at the scene a blood-soaked man's Western-style blue denim shirt with white-covered snaps, size 14H neck."

2) I don't buy menswear, but isn't a size 14 shirt a very small shirt for an adult male to wear?
I also have never seen the designation " H" after the neck size. Does this refer to the very old system of older childrens' clothing for overweight children being labeled " Chubby" in the instance of girls' clothing and " Husky" for boys' clothing, with the " H" standing for Husky to get it into the right sales racks, etc?
What I'm wondering is if the victim might also have had the shirt with her due to the extreme nighttime temperature changes in the desert climate areas. A smaller sized male shirt would likely fit a young woman of the height and weight in the autopsy summary.
I also do not see how it would be possible for the initial investigators to throw away or otherwise dispense of the male- sized shirt, which indicates to me that either they lost it in the evidence box, or have never DNA tested it for some strange reason. If the blood was a match to the victim's, maybe Grafton didn't know this at the time of the writing of her novel, IDK.

I'm not sure that it matters, but when Grafton quotes from the case file that the denim shirt had white colored snaps, this is referring to the mother of pearl snaps on a Western shirt. I'm sure synthetic materials were used to make a lot of the snaps, even back then, but to state the type of snaps in language which is more familiar to most of our frames of references seems to be helpful to understand what it looked like.

3) Also, I'd like to mention that we do not know how deep the 40+ stab wounds were or what size knife was used ( not mutually exclusive findings, of course). In the case of Karl Werner, the 2 girls killed had a huge number of stab wounds inflicted by what is described as a pocket or pen knife.
In contrast, when the Zodiac killer's M.O. with knives is discussed, they are large blade knives such as a hunting knife or maybe a machete.

4) Lastly, I don't really understand the detectives' theory that Jane Doe Santa Barbara may have been a recent immigrant into the US. IF Grafton was sticking to case facts when she described the clothing in the book, part of the clothing ( either bra, panties or the dark blue top) and shoes were US brands. No foreign brands of clothing were noted.
The dental work seems to indicate that she had financial help to repair caries- riddled teeth, 19 fillings in a year or two, but this does not mean that only non-US residents have poor dental care.
To me, this could suggest that she came from an impoverished family located anywhere, who didn't have the money to fix the child's cavities. When she was old enough to make her own money, she had her own cavities filled, probably one at a time per visit, by a dentist or dentists because of her pain. I definitely think the dental care was stretched out over a period of time, likely one being done when she had money to pay, then the next, etc.
No orthodontia existed, and from the recreation models and photos, she probably would have gotten braces if the money existed for her to do so.
Another reason for her teeth being repaired within a short span of time after probably a lifetime of cavity production could be that she enrolled in Medicaid a year or two prior and Medicaid paid for the cavity repairs. ( I'm not sure what CA Medicaid benefits were in 1969 at all- just wondering if this could be how the funds were supplied for her care).
This makes me wonder if she was from a cult or religious sect which does not believe in government aid. I don't think Mormons accepted government aid in 1969, and there may be others I'm not aware of personally.

5) Addendum- Not being but a small child at the time of her murder, I am not extremely familiar with jewelry trends of 1969 beyond " love beads", beaded headbands, peace sign icons.
IF " horseshoe earrings" were not common at that time ( today they are regarded as mostly " Preppy" in nature and I have a pair of 14 kt. gold small horseshoe stud earrings myself), then maybe there is a connection between the Western shirt and the horseshoe earrings- such as being connected to a rodeo circuit or horse farm,or living in a state like Texas, where everything was Western-themed for 3 decades or more, but isn't at present for the mainstream Texan.
 
Richard said:
Yes, there is a resemblence, and most of the description seems to fit. I have a problem connecting them for two reasons; first the circumstances of her disappearance seem to indicate that a forcible abduction took place on 25 August 1968, and second that the discovery of Lompoc Jane Doe was almost a full year later on 3 August 1969.

This is one of those instances, where it would be worth while questioning whether or not the "missing date" is correct.
Click to expand...

Seems like a possible match that's worth submitting, did anyone submit?
 
Sounds like this will be a DNA Doe Project case at some point! Margaret Press posted on their page that she vowed to solve this case after she read Sue Grafton’s book and plans to contact Santa Barbara authorities.
 
Late to the party, but was there a military installation in Lompoc at this time?

If LE believes the decedent is from another country, did she come to the area with a service person? That could explain the recent dental treatment?

Doesn't explain why she has yet to be matched with a missing persons report, of course.
 
California has long been a place to which people from all other states and many other countries have gravitated. The large (and changing) population has meant many unsolved crimes and unidentified murder victims.

I have mentioned possible links to other similar murders in previous posts. Looking back at them, there were victims from Canada, from State of Washington, and other places. I have always felt strongly that Lompoc Jane Doe's murder might have been linked to that of Roxie Phillips. She was from Washington State and on her way to Lompoc, CA when she was stabbed to death only a short time earlier.
 
Tangential to the Lompoc case, but I wanted to update what I posted last year.
In December, 2017, author Sue Grafton, who was truly an admirable author until her very last published book " Y Is For Yesterday" which contained repetitious pornographic text and therefore was unsavory in general, died. It was mostly unexpected.

I think she was sick and undergoing treatment already when she wrote the epilogue featuring some elements of the Lompoc mystery, as she had a rare but usually curable form of appendiceal cancer.
I know this is not about the victim, but I wanted to add the last chapter to the small amount of info Mrs. Grafton imparted, which was what piqued my interest in the case.
 
Richard said:
------------------------------------------------
San Francisco Chronicle August 6, 1969 - front page
Michigan Suspect Linked Directly to Salinas Case
By George Murphy
Chronicle Correspondent

Salinas
John Norman Collins, charged with the most recent of seven coed slayings in Michigan, was linked directly as a suspect yesterday in the murder of a Salinas teenager.

The handsome 22-year-old student who police said had "a magnetic effect on young girls," met and made a date with a close friend of Roxie Ann Phillips, 17, the day before Miss Phillips disappeared June 30, investigators learned.

Miss Phillips' nude body was found with a red belt around her neck near Carmel July 13. She had been strangled to death and, as with several of the Michigan victims, one earring was missing.

Monterey County Sheriff's Detective Darol Smith said "Roxie Ann was well aware of the existence of Collins."

Captain Smith said Collins "picked up" Nancy Albrecht, 17, a visitor from Fort Worth and a friend of Miss Phillips, on Pajaro street in Salinas June 29.

He drove her to the home of her sister and brother-in-law, where she was staying, and spent 30 minutes talking with Miss Albrecht and her sister, Frances Gautier, Smith disclosed.

He said Collins told them he was attending Eastern Michigan University and had come to Salinas in a house trailer he was "living with friends."

Captain Smith said Miss Albrect later told Miss Phillips about her meeting with Collins and described him and his car to her.

The next day, Miss Phillips disappeared. On that day, too, Collins was to have a date with Miss Albrect, but he never showed up and she never saw him again.

Trailer

The house trailer was found Friday behind the Salinas home of the grandfather of Andrew Manuel, 24, known to have come with Collins to California from Ypsilanti, Mich.
Police and FBI agents are searching for Manuel, a 6-foot-1, 235-pound Filipino-American with a tattoo, possibly of an eagle, on his left forearm.

Michigan State Police Sergeant Ken Christensen sent to Salinas for the investigation, said he "felt certain" Manuel "could be helpful."

LA

Christensen said he and his associate, Detective Tom Nasser, would probably go to Los Angeles later this week to investigate the June 23 murder of Virginia Lynn Smith, 13.
She was killed in much the same manner as the seven Michigan coeds and Miss Phillips.

Collins and Manuel left Ypsilanti, with their trailer, on June 21, and returned sometime in July, police said.

Miss Phillips, Miss Smith and a still-unidentified girl whose murdered body was found near Salinas, were killed between June 17 and July 16.

Christensen described Collins as "a very handsome, clean-cut attractive young man who seems to have a magnetic effect on young girls."

He was arrested in Michigan Friday and charged with the murder of Karen Sue Beineman, an Eastern Michigan University student.

The Ann Arbor News reported yesterday that a witness told police Collins was the driver of a car that picked up Joan Schell shortly before she became the second victim in the string of seven Michigan coed killings.

The victims were all found nude, sexually mutilated and had one of their earrings missing.

The FBI entered the case when a Federal fugitive warrant was issued for Manuel for failing to return the rented trailer.

Christensen and Detective Nasser examined the trailer, but would not disclose their findings — if any.

Smith said the police believed Manuel was "without money and without any means of transportation."

In San Jose, Chief of Detective Barton Collins said "I'd like to talk with Andrew Manuel" about the murder of Gay Furlong, 14, and Kathy Snoozy, 15.

The bodies of the girls were found savagely stabbed to death Sunday night on a San Jose hillside.

"I'd like to talk to anyone who could tell me anything about how hese two kids were killed," the San Jose chief said.

He would not speculate, however, on any link between the deaths and those of Miss Phillips and the unidentified Salinas girl.

Michigan Suspect Linked to Salinas Case - SFC 8/6/69

LINK:

Michigan Suspect Linked to Salinas Case - SFC 8/6/69
Click to expand...

Richard, and all interested:
If you still check in on this case, did you see the description of the unidentified man's shirt with Western style snaps, size " 14H" found near the Lompoc, CA victim's body? Could the weird size label of " 14H" be Spanish, made in Mexico?
I was reading the post I just quoted when I realized I mentioned the western style of the shirt in my first post on the case and wondered about it, and there WAS a Texan in the midst of all this timeline- Nancy Albrecht, 17, a visitor from Fort Worth and a friend of Roxie Phillips.

The baffling part is that Collins " picked up" Albrecht, returned her unharmed, apparently, or at least alive, but killed the friend she was visiting, Roxie. He was supposed to have had another " date" with Albrecht but killed Roxie the day before and left the vicinity for a time, it's believed.

Also, Andrew Manuel seems to be that very peculiar character, a serial killer's " sidekick". It brings to mind Henry Lee Lucas and his " sidekick, Ottis Toole. Both were psychopathic killers who could get along well enough to hunt women, kill and sometimes dispose of their bodies. I don't think Toole had a normal IQ, but Lucas likely was at least in the normal range if not above. They, or Lucas alone, killed a convenience store clerk in the sleepy little Texas town where I live, Granbury, TX. years before I moved here. I believe a robbery was involved.

In symbiotic cases like this where two killers work together to hunt and destroy prey, isn't one usually the dominant killer?
Would you consider Manuel to be as dangerous as Collins?

I think, in the absence of much evidence, admittedly, Collins and/ or Manuel might well be the killer(s). DNA testing might bring some closure regarding the perp. ID as well as familial victim's DNA, if the funds and LE interest is there to get it done. She's been denied justice and a name for way too long.
 
carbuff said:
Another case where the victim was found with a man's Western-style shirt is Racine Jane Doe. She's also thought to possibly be from Canada. She was found in 1999, which is a long time after Lompoc Jane and the other California victims, but the killer(s) appear to have moved around.

199UFWI
Jane Doe Racine County, Wisconsin
Click to expand...

Have another too Belle River Jane Doe, found in 1982 with Western Style Shirt Green Plaid Size 12. At one time it was suspected that she was a victim of Lucas however from what I have found it did not pan out or either there was not enough evidence to link. At that day and time Lucas was a suspect in numerous cases across the country, did he murder several people absolutely is it as many as he said ... I think not .. believe he liked the publicity fame.
Unidentified Person Case
 
carbuff said:
Another case where the victim was found with a man's Western-style shirt is Racine Jane Doe. She's also thought to possibly be from Canada. She was found in 1999, which is a long time after Lompoc Jane and the other California victims, but the killer(s) appear to have moved around.

199UFWI
Jane Doe Racine County, Wisconsin
Click to expand...

Have another too Belle River Jane Doe, found in 1982 with Western Style Shirt Green Plaid Size 12. At one time it was suspected that she was a victim of Lucas however from what I have found it did not pan out or either there was not enough evidence to link. At that day and time Lucas was a suspect in numerous cases across the country, did he murder several people absolutely is it as many as he said ... I think not .. believe he liked the publicity fame.
Unidentified Person Case
 
SeekingJana said:
Richard, and all interested:
If you still check in on this case, did you see the description of the unidentified man's shirt with Western style snaps, size " 14H" found near the Lompoc, CA victim's body? Could the weird size label of " 14H" be Spanish, made in Mexico?
I was reading the post I just quoted when I realized I mentioned the western style of the shirt in my first post on the case and wondered about it, and there WAS a Texan in the midst of all this timeline- Nancy Albrecht, 17, a visitor from Fort Worth and a friend of Roxie Phillips.

The baffling part is that Collins " picked up" Albrecht, returned her unharmed, apparently, or at least alive, but killed the friend she was visiting, Roxie. He was supposed to have had another " date" with Albrecht but killed Roxie the day before and left the vicinity for a time, it's believed.

Also, Andrew Manuel seems to be that very peculiar character, a serial killer's " sidekick". It brings to mind Henry Lee Lucas and his " sidekick, Ottis Toole. ....
Click to expand...

A shirt size 14H would be a boy's "husky" size shirt. It equates to a size 34-35 inch chest. It is possible that it was something worn by the victim, since women sometimes wear clothing made in the smaller boys sizes. Sometimes boy sizes are cheaper than the same items of clothing with women's sizes marked in them.

If the shirt belonged to a perpetrator, then it might mean a small person was involved. Or it is also possible that the shirt was completely unrelated to the crime.

Collins and Manuel left California shortly after Roxie's murder and returned to Michigan, where they were questioned by police. Collins was jailed for a Michigan murder, while Manuel was questioned and released. Manuel blew town and was picked up in Arizona some weeks later.

Collins' car was impounded and searched. In it were traces of blood, a knife which had been cleaned, and a small piece of material which matched the dress Roxie had been wearing the day she was murdered.

Collins was tried in Michigan for only one murder, although he was suspected of a varying number of other murders. He was sentenced to life in prison, and only after that did Michigan agree to allow him to be extradited to California to stand trial for Roxie's murder. Time, however had passed, and California declined to charge and try him.

Manuel was not charged with any of the Michigan or California murders and he went free - for a while. He did do at least two long prison stretches for other crimes.

Assuming that the California Medical examiner who did the autopsy on Lompoc Jane Doe estimated her death date correctly, Collins was probably cleared of having killed her, as he was in custody in Michigan. Manuel, however, was free to have committed the crime and most likely had returned to California after leaving Michigan. It is believed that Manuel returned to California in order to clean out the trailer which he and Collins had been living in and which was parked on his uncle's property.
 
Thanks, Richard, for validating what I'd put together about the shirt size being the old boy's husky size.

I'm wondering if the estimated timeline for TOD of Lompaka Jane Doe is off just a bit.

It seems to me that if Collins or Manuel didn't kill her, it was a copycat killing.. the thing is that back then, it took quite a while for the gen. public to hear about the minute details of crimes ( choked with an item of clothing, for example).

I hope this woman can be ID'd through the DNA they got when they exhumed her body, and given her name back. Collins is in prison, he's not going anywhere, so maybe ID is the best we can hope for. IDK?
 
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