CA - Massive fire at Oakland warehouse party, 36 dead, 2 Dec 2016 #1

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Thirty three identified on a tentative basis (live on KTVU).
 
I'm really sorry to all the victims and loved ones. Embracing you all with peace. Xo


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cvaldez1975 said:
the girls interviewed looked clean.

they probably showered at school, work, gym, a friend's house or catholic charities.

a studio apt in Oakland costs somewhere around 1600-1800 and up. this set up seems crazy but its somewhat common.
Click to expand...

Back in the dotcom days when housing first started going up, it was reported that people were parking their RVs at the long-term parking lot at San Jose Airport and living out of them, going to work each morning. I met people living in tents at one of the local parks. Even met one guy who was living at a backpack camping site at a state park. He would hike in and out about 3-4 miles every day and then go to work. He would change his clothes in his car. He said he didn't know what he was going to do when winter came. SF Chronicle has reported several times that SF can't get substitute teachers because they can't afford to live there, or anywhere nearby.

Here's an excellent video, Million Dollar Shack, about housing costs in the Bay Area from last year.
[video=youtube;SBjXUBMkkE8]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SBjXUBMkkE8[/video]
 
I can understand the child custody issue and being forced to stay in the area. But there are other places to live where housing costs are low and there are jobs. It may not be the dream of being some alternative artist, but artists start in places all over the US.

The thought of living there gives me the heebie jeebies. As a college student I lived in terrible places while working in resorts in the summer. We never thought of how we could die in those death traps we lived in.

Adults have to be more aware and say that it is not OK to live in something like that. But people out up a fuss when the govt tries to step in.
 
human said:
I wonder what he can be charged with? Any ideas? I wonder if he declared the income? Imagine paying that kind of rent for that place, There are other places in the US to live.
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I know this case is different and I hope charges are filed, but no charges were filed in the 2015 Berkeley balcony collapse. And in another deadly balcony collapse in SF in 1996, a jury deadlocked on involuntary manslaughter charges, and they were dropped. Lots of civil lawsuits, though, in both cases.

http://www.sfgate.com/bayarea/article/No-criminal-charges-in-deadly-Berkeley-balcony-7215360.php

http://articles.latimes.com/1998/apr/10/news/mn-38045
 
LinasK said:
I blame the ownerfor improper maintenance and not checking on the property, and the renter Derick Ion who illegally sublet this property into a death trap.
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Its so weird. I dont hold owner anywhere. They all were "trained" to lie and hide stuff when inspectors came by

If they all collectively have no issues with that dance, when the owner might come by why would we expect the same thing not to happen.

Only mo, this is only on him- lets be honest and even use old terms he is a sociopath moo
 
CARIIS said:
Its so weird. I dont hold owner anywhere. They all were "trained" to lie and hide stuff when inspectors came by

If they all collectively have no issues with that dance, when the owner might come by why would we expect the same thing not to happen.

Only mo, this is only on him- lets be honest and even use old terms he is a sociopath moo
Click to expand...


Yeah, but the owner is the one who had the responsibility to maintain the property- even the barest minimum of fire protection for a "warehouse"- meaning sprinklers, smoke alarms, and fire extinguishers, and if he/she had checked on their property, they would have discovered the illegal usage instead of taking him at his word. Oh, and apparently the owner- Ng is a slum lord with a history of sewage violations at another property.
 
Balcony

I think the deal here is this was overt stuff. The balcony, as a landlord how am I gonna know to go see if a balcony might fall .

This is so different, and it gets worse and worse. All of us seeing images as they have emerged - none of us or the world need to be structural engineers to flat out come up with the conclusion that what happened could easily happen- I have been in some wonderful dives in my day - loved it!

As images started I could not help but think I would leave - it had to smell, walking into a "club" as advertised that has campers on the first floor, that looks like a dumpster without walls and to get to the disco for lack of a better word, needing to be a mountain climber , stuffy aint my scene.

I think the whole deal here is blatant - from the beginning I wanted to know if he had resources. He does- IMO that makes it all so different - it is exploitation of the far less fortunate, and that is why I hope he rots in jail. moo
 
LinasK said:
Yeah, but the owner is the one who had the responsibility to maintain the property- even the barest minimum of fire protection for a "warehouse"- meaning sprinklers, smoke alarms, and fire extinguishers, and if he/she had checked on their property, they would have discovered the illegal usage instead of taking him at his word. Oh, and apparently the owner- Ng is a slum lord with a history of sewage violations at another property.
Click to expand...

BUT do we know if that would be the case if the area was used as designated I do not know, but I think if it were used for "storage" even the code would not say you need sprinklers fire alarms- cause if chose not to do that, something happens your stuff burns - no humans (pets too) in danger of burning to death.

I do not know if any of this is accurate. I think if you are storing whatever, anything but living things - take your chances. I just do not know if you would be in violation in those situations

I cant understand all that govt law stuff. I wish a left brain (!) person here would see exactly what the "punsihment" is , as far as the system goes, for what we all now know he was doing.

Jail or a court hearing in half a year? What is the penality for what he was doing?
 
human said:
I wonder what he can be charged with? Any ideas? I wonder if he declared the income? Imagine paying that kind of rent for that place, There are other places in the US to live.
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I think he would be charged with at least 33 counts (as of now) of involuntary manslaughter because he did not intend for people to die (so it can't be murder or voluntary manslaughter). The construction he did inside without a permit and holding a party without a permit would be an infraction or misdemeanor. Here is how involuntary manslaughter works...

The elements of California involuntary manslaughter are:

1.You committed a California infraction, a California misdemeanor, a California crime that is not an inherently dangerous felony, OR a lawful act done in an unlawful manner;
2. You committed the crime or act with “criminal negligence”; and
3.Your actions caused another person's death.

Criminal negligence is more than just ordinary carelessness, inattention, or mistake in judgment. It occurs only when:

  1. A person acts in a reckless way that creates a high risk of death or great bodily injury; and
  2. A reasonable person would have known that acting in that way would create such a risk.
http://www.shouselaw.com/involuntary_manslaughter.html#
 
I have been on that Facebook page since early, early Saturday morning. I helped edit and add to the spreadsheet when there were only four names. While I didn't 'know any of these wonderful, creative people in life, I feel like I know a little about them now. An amazing amount of talent is forever gone. I am hurting deeply and I can't comprehend how Gitana feels. I'm happy your sister is okay Blue. If you have the time to read about them, I encourage you to do so.
 
The penalty for involuntary manslaughter is (keep in mind there are multiple deaths in this case):

PC 192(b) involuntary manslaughter is always a felony in California. The potential penalties include:
Felony (formal) probation ;
  • Two (2), three (3) or four (4) years in jail; and
  • A fine of up to ten thousand dollars ($10,000).[SUP]20[/SUP]
Involuntary manslaughter often triggers a civil lawsuit by the family of the victim as well. When these are successful, involuntary manslaughter defendants can face very large civil judgments.

http://www.shouselaw.com/involuntary_manslaughter.html#1
 
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