CA - Massive fire at Oakland warehouse party, 36 dead, 2 Dec 2016 #2

[CARIIS]

Just had to see what is happening for everyone. While booting I am thinking , so what, are you thinking this did not happen? Are you hoping this was a thread in your head?

Is anyone gonna change something?

The answer is no huh?

 

[LinasK]

What does this mean?


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We are expecting heavy rain, and they don't want the evidence debris getting lost in the storm drains.

 

[LinasK]

Boy has this been a ride huh. I am stuck with Jen. Yesterday I started to see posts that were "confirmatory".

I was like no, we can not do that yet. Then more. Then it took me back to MAL370, and remembering thinking ( I am not a callous person) 3 months later lots of family members still saying we don't know and thinking god denial is potent.

Yesterday I thought Git and Jens family are obviously educated. How brave for them to move into reality. That's education based.

What exactly is going on on my end. For some reason as names have been released I hold my breath and feel relief, so we do not know what happened yet.

For some reason here I need to hear and see it "reported"

That befuddles me more tho. I am somewhat knowledgeable (aviation disaster ) about the complexities of needing more ID stuff.

And then it takes it into another orbit. What we as caring people have felt as it relates to this being closer to us here at ws, it makes it more incoprehsable what they are going through.

I think it is also complicated , in that you all, with me here , with Pulse, was profoundly helpful. It did .

So I guess,- since I seem to be internally,not catching up here, an overt question must be asked- is she deceased?

No confirmation yet, and the coroner/sheriff doesn't want to tell the families if they've made a tentative ID and be wrong, but we have reason to think we might know something tomorrow.

 

[LinasK]

What I'm concerned about is that he will simply disappear. The guy could leave his kids for days (weeks, months?) at a time - he's used to just up and leaving when he feels like it without taking responsibility for what he leaves behind. He's creative, he likes to live outside of rules....I think he has it in him to slip away. He might even find helpers to assist him. I really hope LE is indeed keeping tabs on him.

jmopinion

I have a DA friend in another county who tells me they will.

 

[CARIIS]

They have been so good, keeping us apprised, the weather is the pitts. These folks have to be so wiped emotionally and physically

just been a horrible story

 

[Spellbound]

30 PAGES of complaints/violations??? :badmood: I need to zip my lips.

Glad Gitana was able to be with her mother and brother. This surely must be one of the hardest times in their lives. How we all wish we could make things easier for her. Give her our combined love, please.

 

[LinasK]

30 PAGES of complaints/violations??? :badmood: I need to zip my lips.

Glad Gitana was able to be with her mother and brother. This surely must be one of the hardest times in their lives. How we all wish we could make things easier for her. Give her our combined love, please.

Don't blame this mayor, blame her predecessor, who was incompetent- Jean Quan. Gitana is on a flight home right now, and there may be some better news tomorrow.

 

[LinasK]

5:00 news reports the cause may have been a refrigerator shorting out. No surprise there! An electrician's nightmare this place was.

 

[CARIIS]

Not sure how often, but according to this article Ng (parent or daughter?) did come by sometimes. (BBM):

The Ghost Ship was run by a married couple, Derick Ion Almena — also known as Derick Ion — and Micah Allison, whom residents described as the master tenants who rented the building and sublet parts of it to others. The building was owned by Chor Nar Siu Ng, who lives elsewhere in Oakland. It is unclear what Ms. Ng, who could not be reached for comment, knew about conditions inside.

Current and former tenants said that when Ms. Ng or her daughter came by, Mr. Almena and Ms. Allison told tenants to pack away bedding and cooking supplies. Justin Manchester, who lived in the building for six weeks in 2014, said that the master tenants told other residents to hide in a nearby Wendy’s restaurant when Ms. Ng visited.

“They would usually prepare for days,” he said, and they would tell tenants to “make your space look like nobody had been staying there.”

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/12/05/us/oakland-fire-ghost-ship-warehouse.html?_r=0

All along I have found this stuff so confusing. It is a big place with ONE entrance. How does this work? Does anyone who is coming have to give a three-day warning or something.

It is so bizarre but mainly cause it seems to have worked which I do not understand how?? Once maybe twice ok -- for years??

 

[CARIIS]

Such a tradgedy for so many families! But, if the tenants were told to hide when the owner was coming by, that just tells us that the people renting the property are not honest people. What had they told the owner they were renting it for? So far I've heard (news) and read that people lived there, but also a concert was going on? Also it was an artist loft/studio? How many things can one place be? I saw that terrible interview on TV this morning with one of the renters and his attitude was horrific! I'm just dumbfounded on how they are handling this! I'm sure they are scared due to the issues that they will be held liable for, but for goodness sake, they seem to only be concerned with themselves. Does anyone know of any renters that were currently living there that has given any interviews about these 2 men? Conditions? What were they charging people to live there? So many questions and I'm sure after this morning, there is an attorney with them now.

Only mo, I think we need to keep in mind that for these individuals, it was living under the expressway or in a setting we all find confusing.

Streets - or possibly electricity on a Monday and maybe a Sat

moo

I have come slowly to grasp this as I have learned more

My initial notion was folks wanted to live there so they could be artsy- and stuff.

I have since learned that the street is a worse choice

again moo

 

[LinasK]

Media should not continue to give this nut case a forum for his lunacy. :moo:

Actually it's a prosecutor's dream if he keeps running his mouth on tape.

 

[passionflower]

so glad Gitana had you with her........devastating and I'm 3000 miles away.

 

[Spellbound]

Don't blame this mayor, blame her predecessor, who was incompetent- Jean Quan. Gitana is on a flight home right now, and there may be some better news tomorrow.

I honestly don 't know who to blame yet .... but surely the owner was aware of 30 PAGES of complaints. Just how much did she do/care/attempt-to-do? Seems she has a huge share in the responsibility and allowing it to be occupied while turning a blind eye. Just getting more angry tonight... I am sorry, and don't know how I should be feeling right now.

 

[Spellbound]

Actually it's a prosecutor's dream if he keeps running his mouth on tape.

That's what I was thinking.

so glad Gitana had you with her........devastating and I'm 3000 miles away.

Agree. I feel like I am flittering above Gitana right now, wanting to give her support and comfort, and not knowing how I can do that. So frustrating to feel this helpless.

 

[KaaBoom]

What makes you believe that?

My life time experience with landlords. I never knew a landlord who wasn't happy as long as he got his check.

 

[LinasK]

so glad Gitana had you with her........devastating and I'm 3000 miles away.

I could only do this because I'm a 30-40 min drive away. Years ago I lived in North Oakland when I moved up to the Bay Area. I moved to suburbia.

 

[LinasK]

That's what I was thinking.



Agree. I feel like I am flittering above Gitana right now, wanting to give her support and comfort, and not knowing how I can do that. So frustrating to feel this helpless.

She's been doing some lurking in the last couple of days and she appreciates it all.

 

[CARIIS]

Ugh I moaned aloud to my lady love when a congresswoman was there. Barf, I then flet validated when the silver hair lady who has been awesome, stood far away from her.

In every other local official , he put out her hand on their back gently guided them to mike and then stood close during their time on the mike.

go back and watch some


congress your bs -- go back to your office and do nothing

moo

and for Wendy's I have some thoughts for you . You need taxpayer money like I need to win the lottery. Corporate - YOU give the franchise missed money and leave the taxpayers alone

the local business need it Wendys well I aint getting banned for you people

 

[LinasK]

I honestly don 't know who to blame yet .... but surely the owner was aware of 30 PAGES of complaints. Just how much did she do/care/attempt-to-do? Seems she has a huge share in the responsibility and allowing it to be occupied while turning a blind eye. Just getting more angry tonight... I am sorry, and don't know how I should be feeling right now.

I think the order of blame is:1) Derick Ion 2) the owner 3) city inspectors/ tenants

 

[greycoupon]

For trans women killed by Oakland fire, struggle for respect continues in death

Instead of grieving for her friends, Scout Wolfcave has spent the last two days phoning news reporters and begging them not to disrespect the transgender women who died by calling them “men” in their reports and refusing to use their proper names.

Feral Pines, Cash Askew and Em B were victims of the devastating fire on Friday night at an Oakland warehouse, known as the Ghost Ship, where at least 36 people died, many of them young artists, musicians and activists.

In death, you can’t defend yourself anymore, so it falls on your friends to do it for you
Scout Wolfcave

The tragedy has sent shockwaves through the Bay Area underground music scene, but has been particularly painful for the tight-knit communities of trans people, who already face disproportionate levels of violence and discrimination and often flock to Oakland in search of safer spaces to live and make art.