CA - Massive fire at Oakland warehouse party, 36 dead, 2 Dec 2016 #2

[rsd1200]

as a creative woman in her 20s who goes to these types of shows often...i've been following this thread really closely. this situation is so incredibly nuanced and complicated. hi guys! :greetings:

i wanted to share something (with permission) that my electronic musician friend (in his 40s) wrote to me via text today:



i find it fascinating to hear insider points of views on all sides of the spectrum. hope it's ok to share!

Welcome elendast! I enjoyed reading your friend's viewpoints. I can see where he's coming from on several. Thank you for sharing.

 

[MsMarple]

Officials in Oakland asked for a declaration of emergency Tuesday, clearing the way for the city to receive federal and state funding to cover the massive response to a warehouse fire that left 36 people dead.

Oakland Fire Department Chief Teresa Deloach Reed said the local state of emergency declaration, which will be taken up for ratification Thursday by the City Council, will allow businesses affected by the fire to obtain reimbursement for lost revenue.

http://www.sfexaminer.com/refrigera...fe7-f49d-46ec-8381-5b32cd623436|1481157919716

Say what? The city will receive federal and state funding for local businesses who lost revenue by the fire but no word on funding for the victims of the fire? O...kay...

Can someone explain? Is the city of Oakland relying on crowd funding for the victims or is there an application of federal and state funds for them too? Inquiring minds want to know...

 

[Jewels53]

Gitana, I am so sorry that you all got news that you were dreading. You, your brother and family and Jennifers family are in my thoughts and prayers. Peace and comfort to you and yours!

 

[rsd1200]

Don't live in the US anymore but where I lived in MN there were no immigrants so the jobs usually go to people who are getting off of welfare. Housing is really high because there are the wealthy then the slumlords who take advantage.

Are there no cheaper areas around Naples? I guess tge citizens might have to start paying state income tax to,provide for workers who can have decent wages and benefits,

.
Naples didn't used to be like that. It is not my primary home. I live in the Appalachian region. Naples is millionaires row now. I've been visiting there since I was young though and what was once Naples, has sprawled outward and encompassed areas that was middle class and lower. Wages for general working class folks don't rise much. A home that would sell here for around 130k goes there for around 1.2 mil. When the are priced out of the area, they take jobs in those areas where they move, or closer to them. My cousin lived up the coast near Ft. Myers, which is still not exactly cheap, but being single, managed to find a couple of good roommates, and was able to bike to work. Some folks have different circumstances in their lives that makes it easier to move, or to make things better work where they currently live.

 

[human]

http://www.sfexaminer.com/refrigera...fe7-f49d-46ec-8381-5b32cd623436|1481157919716

Say what? The city will receive federal and state funding for local businesses who lost revenue by the fire but no word on funding for the victims of the fire? O...kay...

Can someone explain? Is the city of Oakland relying on crowd funding for the victims or is there an application of federal and state funds for them too? Inquiring minds want to know...

Do you think anything exists for individuals that exist for businesses? I doubt it. Individuals will have to sue. The owner. Derrick. Maybe the city. There will be lawyers to take it for percentages I imagine.

 

[human]

.
Naples didn't used to be like that. It is not my primary home. I live in the Appalachian region. Naples is millionaires row now. I've been visiting there since I was young though and what was once Naples, has sprawled outward and encompassed areas that was middle class and lower. Wages for general working class folks don't rise much. A home that would sell here for around 130k goes there for around 1.2 mil. When the are priced out of the area, they take jobs in those areas where they move, or closer to them. My cousin lived up the coast near Ft. Myers, which is still not exactly cheap, but being single, managed to find a couple of good roommates, and was able to bike to work. Some folks have different circumstances in their lives that makes it easier to move, or to make things better work where they currently live.

Florida is a right to work state, correct? People get paid peanuts. Coming from MN which does not necessarily have high wages for menial jobs, we did have decent wages and benefits for union jobs. People want great workers but they don't want to pay them They want plenty for their own selves,Affordable housing is an issue in most places.

 

[LinasK]

http://www.sfexaminer.com/refrigera...fe7-f49d-46ec-8381-5b32cd623436|1481157919716

Say what? The city will receive federal and state funding for local businesses who lost revenue by the fire but no word on funding for the victims of the fire? O...kay...

Can someone explain? Is the city of Oakland relying on crowd funding for the victims or is there an application of federal and state funds for them too? Inquiring minds want to know...

It's an official process. The mayor has made her recommendations to the Oakland City Council. Tomorrow they meet to officially declare Oakland as a state of Emergency (IIRC, I may not be accurate here). Then once that is done, according to what the mayor said they can apply for state and federal assistance.

 

[LaborOfLobe]

http://www.ktvu.com/oakland-warehouse-fire/221790108-story

I don't know if this has been posted, I'm behind. It contains a nice list of ways people are helping out, from U-haul to free counseling, massage and acupuncture. It's always nice to see people coming together to help in times of need.

 

[human]

One of my friends grew up in Palo Alto and his parents still live in his childhood home. PA was never a poor area, like EPA (next to each other but not the same city and in different counties) but certainly had a middle class. Today my friend's 1800 ft track home is worth over $3 million. Another friend bought a house in nearby Mt View in the 1980s, her 1600 sq ft was worth $1 million in 2006, today it's worth $2 million. Years ago she and her husband were thinking of moving up and looking at houses in a more upscale neighborhood but thought again because of the taxes. Prop 13 keeps their property taxes down, imagine not only what these new owners are paying for the house but what their taxes are.

Those of us from MN would look at astonishment with the housing prices in CA. For a million dollars even in the Minneapolis area you can get a stunning house. Yes, it is cold. That is why I retired to a foreign country where I can rent an ok house in a warm climate. $700 month on the ocean. Safe.

Anyway, MN is tops in education, has low unemployment, has lots of Fortune 500 companies. Peopke could sell their homes and buy a movie star quality house and have no house payments.

 

[LinasK]

Those of us from MN would look at astonishment with the housing prices in CA. For a million dollars even in the Minneapolis area you can get a stunning house. Yes, it is cold. That is why I retired to a foreign country where I can rent an ok house in a warm climate. $700 month on the ocean. Safe.

Anyway, MN is tops in education, has low unemployment, has lots of Fortune 500 companies. Peopke could sell their homes and buy a movie star quality house and have no house payments.

I've been a Californian all my life. Moved from So. Cal to Nor Cal, knowing it was more expensive. Many of us like the environment here. I do have an nephew who moved from Calif. (Not Cali) to Minnesota and he and his wife and kids live there.

 

[MsMarple]

Do you think anything exists for individuals that exist for businesses? I doubt it. Individuals will have to sue. The owner. Derrick. Maybe the city. There will be lawyers to take it for percentages I imagine.

Yeah, I guess you're right. I think I reacted to the part about applying for compensation for local businesses but relying on crowd funding for the victims. I agree that really is how it works.

I believe we are about to see a multi-million dollar lawsuit against the city. I hope the warehouse owner and Mr. Ion is named also, though I suspect neither has any assets to speak of. The warehouse owner has probably already hidden her funds and Mr. Ion is just a typical burnt out stoner whose bank account is nil.

I mainly hope, however, that Ion is charged with murder/manslaughter. The owner is a but Ion was there on a daily basis and well aware of the conditions. If ever there was a case of murder by depraved indifference this is it.

 

[SophieRose]

Those of us from MN would look at astonishment with the housing prices in CA. For a million dollars even in the Minneapolis area you can get a stunning house. Yes, it is cold. That is why I retired to a foreign country where I can rent an ok house in a warm climate. $700 month on the ocean. Safe.

Anyway, MN is tops in education, has low unemployment, has lots of Fortune 500 companies. Peopke could sell their homes and buy a movie star quality house and have no house payments.

Minneapolis has come to the Bay Area multiple times to attract businesses and employees, and I think some businesses did move there. Usually comments below the articles complain about moving there because of the cold winters and humid summers.

My family came to California during the Gold Rush, first the Sierras then moving to SF in the 1860s. Long history.

 

[KaaBoom]

So the warehouses cannot be turned into housing like has been done in other areas all over the US?

It depends. If you can get it zoned for residential, then it can be turned into residential. This building was not.

 

[human]

I've been a Californian all my life. Moved from So. Cal to Nor Cal, knowing it was more expensive. Many of us like the environment here. I do have an nephew who moved from Calif. (Not Cali) to Minnesota and he and his wife and kids live there.

I can't stand the cold anymore and wish we had moved to somewhere warmer in the US when we were younger.

I am bringing up moving if people are burdened with their high cost of living and having no quality to life,

Having a million to spend on a house many places would get you a dream house for$500 thou and one could live on the rest for awhile.

For those who are in poverty, hopefully people will work on low income housing options like has been done in lots of places.

To accept living conditions in death traps in a country that can spend billions on weapons is skewed to the max. What are we defending if people are living in hell?

 

[human]

It depends. If you can get it zoned for residential, then it can be turned into residential. This building was not.

I think most warehouses like the Cannery in Santa Cruz were not residential zones. It is a process. Hearings. Obviously it can be done as it has been done all over the US. An area would have to be reaoned, not just one building. Spot zoning is probably illegal everywhere .

 

[Spellbound]

Video of a DJ performanceat the Ghist Ship @ June ..... just look at ALL that electrical equipment!

https://youtu.be/d-Jma50bAMs

 

[LaborOfLobe]

http://www.ktvu.com/oakland-warehouse-fire/222156443-story

From this article:

Schaaf said building inspectors typically cannot force entry to a property unless there are pressing circumstances.

We (me and Mr. Lobe, building inspector) would really like to know what constitutes "pressing circumstances" there.

I texted him this quote today, and the collective response from him and his inspector buddies was:

That's a load of c*** (insert poop emoji). The safety of human lives trumps everything and IS a pressing circumstance.

We will be really interested to see where the blame falls here. Legally speaking I don't know, but I'm baffled by all the complaints and failed inspections. Just not understanding any of that. I know I'm beating a dead horse, and I really can see all sides of this as to where the blame lies, I think all I'm hoping for at this point is *something* changes and this doesn't happen again.

 

[human]

Minneapolis has come to the Bay Area multiple times to attract businesses and employees, and I think some businesses did move there. Usually comments below the articles complain about moving there because of the cold winters and humid summers.

My family came to California during the Gold Rush, first the Sierras then moving to SF in the 1860s. Long history.

O/t. Under a mil in the best school district in the US, I think. Super desirable neighborhood. Almost one acre.

http://www.zillow.com/homedetails/11444-Oberlin-Rd-Minnetonka-MN-55305/101660924_zpid/

 

[SophieRose]

Do you think anything exists for individuals that exist for businesses? I doubt it. Individuals will have to sue. The owner. Derrick. Maybe the city. There will be lawyers to take it for percentages I imagine.

It hasn't been declared a crime yet, but I wonder if victims and victim's families can get temporary relief through the California*victim compensation*program, which includes funeral expenses, loss of wages, counseling and caps out at $63k.

http://www.nolo.com/legal-encyclopedia/california-victim-compensation.html

 

[Spellbound]

No, no bodies were in there when they allowed tours yesterday. Gitana elected not to go.

Sorry, LinasK .... the video was before the families came, when personnel were still there sorting through.. I don't know what was under the yellow tarps, but just in case it was bodies, I wanted people to know so they could choose not to view.