CA - Massive fire at Oakland warehouse party, 36 dead, 2 Dec 2016 #2

[KaaBoom]

If the 2003 Station Fire is anything to use as an example, both the owner and the person responsible for the "event" (in this case DA because of what he had going on) will be charged.

The Station nightclub owners were persons responsible for the fire, in that they failed to comply with fire codes. That is why they were prosecuted, as I expect Derick Ion Almena will be prosecuted, for this fire, for the same reason. I doubt anyone else, will be prosecuted, unless there is some more information that we don't know about.

 

[KaaBoom]

Everybody wants to live in certain areas, apparently. There are other places to live and I hope some entrepreneurs figure it out and go there to create jobs.

People live where the jobs are. When the jobs are created, people will live there, and then rents will go up.

 

[LinasK]

To accept living conditions in death traps in a country that can spend billions on weapons is skewed to the max. What are we defending if people are living in hell?

I agree with the other parts. I'm not defending that- but there are other areas of California that aren't as expensive to live in as the Bay Area. So Cal, in particular San Diego was much cheaper than up here. Also, like CValdez mentioned, Sacramento is much, much cheaper. We have nieces who live in Sacramento. One begged me to move up there! I refused because I hate Sacramento. I much prefer the Bay Area. It's a choice one makes one how they live. I didn't live beyond my means in North Oakland, and it took us 9 months to find, but the house we ultimately bought was a bank-owned foreclosure which allowed us to get our foot in the door in this housing market. It's still a fixer-upper, but it's liveable and it's at our own time and what we can afford. You don't have to live in a death-trap to find affordability in the Bay Area. For me- the big issue has always been crime and being broken into, even here. We now have a burglar alarm and a safe as well as our dog.

 

[Rallibella]

Those of us from MN would look at astonishment with the housing prices in CA. For a million dollars even in the Minneapolis area you can get a stunning house. Yes, it is cold. That is why I retired to a foreign country where I can rent an ok house in a warm climate. $700 month on the ocean. Safe.

Anyway, MN is tops in education, has low unemployment, has lots of Fortune 500 companies. Peopke could sell their homes and buy a movie star quality house and have no house payments.

I need to know where this is.

 

[LinasK]

http://www.ktvu.com/oakland-warehouse-fire/222156443-story

From this article:



We (me and Mr. Lobe, building inspector) would really like to know what constitutes "pressing circumstances" there.

I texted him this quote today, and the collective response from him and his inspector buddies was:

That's a load of c*** (insert poop emoji). The safety of human lives trumps everything and IS a pressing circumstance.

We will be really interested to see where the blame falls here. Legally speaking I don't know, but I'm baffled by all the complaints and failed inspections. Just not understanding any of that. I know I'm beating a dead horse, and I really can see all sides of this as to where the blame lies, I think all I'm hoping for at this point is *something* changes and this doesn't happen again.

There was a failure in communication somewhere. I heard that one of the complaints was about illegal construction (but they didn't specify it was inside the warehouse). The inspector found no illegal construction outside and closed the case. So was it the fault of the complainant for not being specific enough, or the person taking the report?? I don't blame the mayor, she's been wonderful, 100% transparent, and totally there for the families. Believe me, this will change the way warehouses are inspected.
Oh, and I also heard on the local news that the inside was never inspected since 1930 because NO permits were ever filed, nor complaints regarding the inside.

 

[Rallibella]

http://www.ktvu.com/oakland-warehouse-fire/222156443-story

From this article:



We (me and Mr. Lobe, building inspector) would really like to know what constitutes "pressing circumstances" there.

I texted him this quote today, and the collective response from him and his inspector buddies was:

That's a load of c*** (insert poop emoji). The safety of human lives trumps everything and IS a pressing circumstance.

We will be really interested to see where the blame falls here. Legally speaking I don't know, but I'm baffled by all the complaints and failed inspections. Just not understanding any of that. I know I'm beating a dead horse, and I really can see all sides of this as to where the blame lies, I think all I'm hoping for at this point is *something* changes and this doesn't happen again.

I work in Real Estate. You cannot just go into another person's property AT ALL in CA has been my experience unless you have a warrant and/or believe there is an immediate danger. I don't think they had anything to prove that here.

If one of the former residents had gone to them and said "There are people living here and there are fires nonstop," a court MIGHT have granted it. CA is an extremely tenant-friendly judicial system.

 

[Jax49]

After looking around a bit more I think I have the addresses straight.

1305 31st Ave is the vacant lot.

1315 31st Ave in the warehouse.

1309 31st Ave is the auto shop.

MOO

 

[Rallibella]

The Station nightclub owners were persons responsible for the fire, in that they failed to comply with fire codes. That is why they were prosecuted, as I expect Derick Ion Almena will be prosecuted, for this fire, for the same reason. I doubt anyone else, will be prosecuted, unless there is some more information that we don't know about.

I know of an instance where a person rented a house out - the tenant turned it into an accounting office. City found out and owner was fined and charged for unlawful zoning use. Even though the owner said they had no idea.

 

[rsd1200]

Florida is a right to work state, correct? People get paid peanuts. Coming from MN which does not necessarily have high wages for menial jobs, we did have decent wages and benefits for union jobs. People want great workers but they don't want to pay them They want plenty for their own selves,Affordable housing is an issue in most places.

I don't think think there are unions for nurse's aids, and janitors, and folks who just sit with the elderly in their home or in nursing homes. I could be wrong though, but I've never heard of one. I don't live in Naples, just a visitor, so I don't really have to worry about it. I just hate to see folks displaced b/c of greed.

 

[LaborOfLobe]

There was a failure in communication somewhere. I heard that one of the complaints was about illegal construction (but they didn't specify it was inside the warehouse). The inspector found no illegal construction outside and closed the case. So was it the fault of the complainant for not being specific enough, or the person taking the report?? I don't blame the mayor, she's been wonderful, 100% transparent, and totally there for the families. Believe me, this will change the way warehouses are inspected.
Oh, and I also heard on the local news that the inside was never inspected since 1930 because NO permits were ever filed, nor complaints regarding the inside.

WOW. So many missteps that ended in tragedy.

 

[rsd1200]

Those of us from MN would look at astonishment with the housing prices in CA. For a million dollars even in the Minneapolis area you can get a stunning house. Yes, it is cold. That is why I retired to a foreign country where I can rent an ok house in a warm climate. $700 month on the ocean. Safe.

Anyway, MN is tops in education, has low unemployment, has lots of Fortune 500 companies. Peopke could sell their homes and buy a movie star quality house and have no house payments.

This house, as cute, and well-appointed, as it is, would go for maybe $57k in my area. There might be a bit of a commute 15 -:45 depending on the job) b/c we're kind of a bedroom area these days. Violent crime is rare.
http://www.zillow.com/homes/for_sal...-122.001114,37.625652,-122.470093_rect/10_zm/

 

[Zuri]

Video of a DJ performanceat the Ghist Ship @ June ..... just look at ALL that electrical equipment!

https://youtu.be/d-Jma50bAMs

This video was fascinating. I am not familiar with that type of music as I am old, but clearly there are those that embrace it. Sadly, I recognized the faces of some that died in the fire, dancing and enjoying the music...

 

[rsd1200]

I've been a Californian all my life. Moved from So. Cal to Nor Cal, knowing it was more expensive. Many of us like the environment here. I do have an nephew who moved from Calif. (Not Cali) to Minnesota and he and his wife and kids live there.

.
That's me, with where I'm from. I was born here, and raised here, and will likely live the rest of my life here. I've had the good fortune to have a good job and be able to travel, but this is my home. It's got its faults but so does everywhere else. One thing about humans, we are very adaptable. When times get tough I just cinch my belt a little tighter, figure something out, and go on.

 

[rsd1200]

I can't stand the cold anymore and wish we had moved to somewhere warmer in the US when we were younger.

I am bringing up moving if people are burdened with their high cost of living and having no quality to life,

Having a million to spend on a house many places would get you a dream house for$500 thou and one could live on the rest for awhile.

For those who are in poverty, hopefully people will work on low income housing options like has been done in lots of places.

To accept living conditions in death traps in a country that can spend billions on weapons is skewed to the max. What are we defending if people are living in hell?

Agree. This should not be happening in this country. People should not be living in their cars, or in tents in parks, or renting stranger's garages to sleep in either.

 

[MsMarple]

The Station nightclub owners were persons responsible for the fire, in that they failed to comply with fire codes. That is why they were prosecuted, as I expect Derick Ion Almena will be prosecuted, for this fire, for the same reason. I doubt anyone else, will be prosecuted, unless there is some more information that we don't know about.

Except that Derick Ion is not the owner of the building, Chor N. Ng is. Ultimately s/he is responsible for the failure of fire codes. However, it was Ion who subdivided the warehouse and leased to the artists. The Oakland DA will ultimately sort the blame out and file the appropriate charges. I hope.

 

[LaborOfLobe]

I work in Real Estate. You cannot just go into another person's property AT ALL in CA has been my experience unless you have a warrant and/or believe there is an immediate danger. I don't think they had anything to prove that here.

If one of the former residents had gone to them and said "There are people living here and there are fires nonstop," a court MIGHT have granted it. CA is an extremely tenant-friendly judicial system.

Thanks for the info. Because California is the way it is, I'm afraid that not a darn thing is going to come out of this as far as preventing future tragedies goes. I guess we'll see.

 

[rsd1200]

O/t. Under a mil in the best school district in the US, I think. Super desirable neighborhood. Almost one acre.

http://www.zillow.com/homedetails/11444-Oberlin-Rd-Minnetonka-MN-55305/101660924_zpid/

That's close to pricing for a similar home, around here, some with some acreage, some not. (Not everyone lives in poverty in Appalachia.)

 

[rsd1200]

The Station nightclub owners were persons responsible for the fire, in that they failed to comply with fire codes. That is why they were prosecuted, as I expect Derick Ion Almena will be prosecuted, for this fire, for the same reason. I doubt anyone else, will be prosecuted, unless there is some more information that we don't know about.

The manager of the band was also sentenced for setting off the pyrotechnics. His sentence was only four years and probation because his actions were "devoid of criminal intent".

http://www.nytimes.com/2006/05/10/us/10cnd-nightclub.html

 

[kdg411]

There was a failure in communication somewhere. I heard that one of the complaints was about illegal construction (but they didn't specify it was inside the warehouse). The inspector found no illegal construction outside and closed the case. So was it the fault of the complainant for not being specific enough, or the person taking the report?? I don't blame the mayor, she's been wonderful, 100% transparent, and totally there for the families. Believe me, this will change the way warehouses are inspected.
Oh, and I also heard on the local news that the inside was never inspected since 1930 because NO permits were ever filed, nor complaints regarding the inside.

Are these the complaints you were referencing?

Per https://aca.accela.com/oakland

Filed Date 11/14/2016
Record Type Housing Habitability Complaint
Address 1315 31ST AVE Oakland CA 94601
Description Illegal interior building structure.
Status Pending Investigation

Filed Date 10/7/2014
Record Type Housing Habitability Complaint
Address 1315 31ST AVE, Oakland CA 94601
Description Constructing house/structure without permits.
Status Non-Actionable

 

[MsMarple]

Current totals of funds raised for the victims of the Oakland Warehouse Fire:

https://www.youcaring.com/firevictimsofoaklandfiredec232016-706684 - $516,496
https://www.youcaring.com/oaklandfirevictimsfrom130531staveinoakland-706680#mlb-oakland - $410,214

For a total of over 926,000 or nearly $28,000 per victim.