GUILTY CA - Matthew Muller for kidnap, rape of 30yo woman, Vallejo, 2015

[layer]

I saw the other day a trailer for a new streaming series on their case. Don't remember the title offhand though,,,

American Nightmare
I just watched it, three part series. Great watch IMHO

 

[layer]

I'm left wondering why he was specifically targeting Andrea. With her connection to the FBI lead agent and the unidentified/missing/non-existent accomplices it seems like the case could still get even weirder.

 

[I am not Sherlock H.]

I too, just watched the American Nightmare Netflix three-part series on this case. Quite amazing, and it sure did not go the direction that I thought it first would. (I highly recommend it to others.)
As to the initial investigation I am reminded of the Netflix documentary entitled ‘Unbelievable’. A series on a number of long unsolved US rape cases finally solved. That series IMO tended to show possible bias in investigating techniques of investigators in part, depending on whether the investigator was male or female. (It seems the Matthew Muller Denise Huskin‘s case might have similar overtones?)

I am also confused on why more wasn’t done to investigate the early male investigator (with apparent ties to the man’s previous fiancé?) and also I believe the FBI investigator or lead investigator that oversaw the case or wanted to ensure that the two reporting individuals were discredited? There is still something missing on that it seems?

IMO there sure appears to be something else underneath this or afoot? And other possible involvement? (Remember when Ms. Huskins was being held, on I believe two occasions other individuals (possibly two?) were visiting to the cabin where she was held by Mr. Muller? And why wasn’t more done to investigate the stolen white Mustang convertible? And Mr. Muller had earlier police or legal ties?)

I wish some investigative journalists would pull up the house foundation on the case by every stone. Something still seems amiss or overlooked?
And unfortunately possible coverup, corruption, ineptitude, or other provide no confidence in justice. (Compare and contrast all the concerns in the GILGO LISK case and its long arduous investigation.)

And to observe that some of the investigators in the Mathew Muller case retain their jobs or were promoted? Appalling! MOO

 

[steeltowngirl]

I just watched American Nightmare. Highly recommend!

I’d known only a little bit about the case, so this mini-series was very interesting to me. Muller is somewhat handsome, yet super creepy; he gave me Ted Bundy vibes.

Very glad for Denise and Aaron that they have moved forward and are now enjoying life with their young family. They were royally screwed over by the investigators.

 

[Cascadia Mount]

I read the book and the connection to Aaron's ex girlfriend never was explained.

 

[Betty P]

That was a big question for me too. I have now been listening to the Real Crime Profile podcast where former FBI, Jim Clemente and LE officer Laura Richard’s interview the victims at length through the lens of behavioral profiling, etc. and I have a different view of the motive now. I don’t know if the podcast is approved, I’ll post a link and report my post just in case.

‎Real Crime Profile: VICTIM F (Part 1) - Denise Huskins & Aaron Quinn Interview on Apple Podcasts

Reposting this here for those of us just watching American Nightmare. This case needs even more investigation.

 

[LinasK]

This article implies that Kenny Park is no longer a Lt. with the Vallejo PD, but it got one detail wrong- they weren't working in So. Cal. Vallejo is in Nor. Cal. It also says that they don't understand why they were targeted. Maybe there was no ex-girlfriend of Aaron's, and Muller just made that up as an excuse. 'Tunnel Vision': Why Police Didn't Believe Kidnapped Couple Featured in Netflix’s ‘American Nightmare’

 

[LinasK]

I too, just watched the American Nightmare Netflix three-part series on this case. Quite amazing, and it sure did not go the direction that I thought it first would. (I highly recommend it to others.)
As to the initial investigation I am reminded of the Netflix documentary entitled ‘Unbelievable’. A series on a number of long unsolved US rape cases finally solved. That series IMO tended to show possible bias in investigating techniques of investigators in part, depending on whether the investigator was male or female. (It seems the Matthew Muller Denise Huskin‘s case might have similar overtones?)

I am also confused on why more wasn’t done to investigate the early male investigator (with apparent ties to the man’s previous fiancé?) and also I believe the FBI investigator or lead investigator that oversaw the case or wanted to ensure that the two reporting individuals were discredited? There is still something missing on that it seems?

IMO there sure appears to be something else underneath this or afoot? And other possible involvement? (Remember when Ms. Huskins was being held, on I believe two occasions other individuals (possibly two?) were visiting to the cabin where she was held by Mr. Muller? And why wasn’t more done to investigate the stolen white Mustang convertible? And Mr. Muller had earlier police or legal ties?)

I wish some investigative journalists would pull up the house foundation on the case by every stone. Something still seems amiss or overlooked?
And unfortunately possible coverup, corruption, ineptitude, or other provide no confidence in justice. (Compare and contrast all the concerns in the GILGO LISK case and its long arduous investigation.)

And to observe that some of the investigators in the Mathew Muller case retain their jobs or were promoted? Appalling! MOO

This article follows those angles: How was FBI agent David Sesma involved in the American Nightmare case? Explained

 

[Betty P]

This article implies that Kenny Park is no longer a Lt. with the Vallejo PD, but it got one detail wrong- they weren't working in So. Cal. Vallejo is in Nor. Cal. It also says that they don't understand why they were targeted. Maybe there was no ex-girlfriend of Aaron's, and Muller just made that up as an excuse. 'Tunnel Vision': Why Police Didn't Believe Kidnapped Couple Featured in Netflix’s ‘American Nightmare’

Video of the ex-girlfriend of Aaron being questioned by LE appears in American Nightmare, so yes, she's real. She was actually another co-worker at the couple's place of employment. One of the agents working on Denise's case was an ex-boyfriend of the ex-girlfriend.

It's possible Muller was stalking the couple and recorded or overheard their discussion about his ex-girlfriend. In the podcast linked above, Aaron believed that someone had broken into his house not too long before the abduction. Things had been moved around or were missing, etc.

According to the first epi of the above podcast, Aaron's brother is actually an FBI agent. He was the one who told him to call LE instead of trying to cooperate with the kidnappers. After, LE lied to Aaron's brother about what Aaron was saying, making it sound like he was guilty. They also lied to Aaron about testing his blood to see what kind of drugs the kidnappers gave him to knock him out.

The manipulation and coercive control/psychological techniques used on both Denise and Aaron were very similar. It made me wonder if Muller was an LE wannabe and hung around with the local LE. He lived with his mother on Mare Island. What if Muller talked others into doing the kidnapping as a sort of game or project to test their skills? What if some of the people who helped him plan it were actually LE? Did Muller or Aaron's ex-gf hang out in any local "cop bars"?

JMO only

Also, the S. Lake Tahoe woman detective mentioned that her search of the info on Muller's white Mustang revealed it was stolen from Vallejo. Why didn't Vallejo LE make the connection between the kidnappers white Mustang and the one that had been stolen?

So many questions.

 

[LinasK]

Video of the ex-girlfriend of Aaron being questioned by LE appears in American Nightmare, so yes, she's real. She was actually another co-worker at the couple's place of employment. One of the agents working on Denise's case was an ex-boyfriend of the ex-girlfriend.

It's possible Muller was stalking the couple and recorded or overheard their discussion about his ex-girlfriend. In the podcast linked above, Aaron believed that someone had broken into his house not too long before the abduction. Things had been moved around or were missing, etc.

According to the first epi of the above podcast, Aaron's brother is actually an FBI agent. He was the one who told him to call LE instead of trying to cooperate with the kidnappers. After, LE lied to Aaron's brother about what Aaron was saying, making it sound like he was guilty. They also lied to Aaron about testing his blood to see what kind of drugs the kidnappers gave him to knock him out.

The manipulation and coercive control/psychological techniques used on both Denise and Aaron were very similar. It made me wonder if Muller was an LE wannabe and hung around with the local LE. He lived with his mother on Mare Island. What if Muller talked others into doing the kidnapping as a sort of game or project to test their skills? What if some of the people who helped him plan it were actually LE? Did Muller or Aaron's ex-gf hang out in any local "cop bars"?

JMO only

Also, the S. Lake Tahoe woman detective mentioned that her search of the info on Muller's white Mustang revealed it was stolen from Vallejo. Why didn't Vallejo LE make the connection between the kidnappers white Mustang and the one that had been stolen?

So many questions.

Yes I'd heard about the White Mustang stolen from Vallejo. I followed the case at the time. I think Vallejo PD is incompetent.

 

[Betty P]

Yes I'd heard about the White Mustang stolen from Vallejo. I followed the case at the time. I think Vallejo PD is incompetent.

The whole thing was very shocking. Some of the things they said about women and rape were incredibly outdated, false and very sexist.

 

[I am not Sherlock H.]

Yes it seems the initial Vallejo, CA police investigation and their investigative skills were less than adequate or desired. Not to mention the FBI contact involvement. And their investigative techniques (or lack thereof) mirror those in the other Netflix series ‘Unbelievable’. Sometimes a refusal to believe a rape victim.

IMO the possible link or perceivable bias from the earlier connection of an investigator to the former fiancé - this just reeks! The article in post #528 above I read indicated only that it was ‘coincidental’.

All in all, the investigation seems inept, incompetent, and/or coverup? Please remind me again not to visit CA or drive through Vallejo, CA.

And thank goodness for the police investigation skills of the female office in Dublin, CA. I shudder to think what might have happened had she not been involved and inquisitive in her work. MOO

 

[LinasK]

Yes it seems the initial Vallejo, CA police investigation and their investigative skills were less than adequate or desired. Not to mention the FBI contact involvement. And their investigative techniques (or lack thereof) mirror those in the other Netflix series ‘Unbelievable’. Sometimes a refusal to believe a rape victim.

IMO the possible link or perceivable bias from the earlier connection of an investigator to the former fiancé - this just reeks! The article in post #528 above I read indicated only that it was ‘coincidental’.

All in all, the investigation seems inept, incompetent, and/or coverup? Please remind me again not to visit CA or drive through Vallejo, CA.

And thank goodness for the police investigation skills of the female office in Dublin, CA. I shudder to think what might have happened had she not been involved and inquisitive in her work. MOO

Not all of CA is like the Vallejo PD, as evidenced by the Dublin PD. Please don't hesitate to come visit. CA is a beautiful place.

 

[I am not Sherlock H.]

Thanks LinasK for the input and sound advice. I appreciate your thoughts, and yes I am making some generalizations. Some years ago I was out in LA and Culver City for company business. It was a wonderful time. It was in the early days of California Proposition 65 regulations and porcelain signs at gas stations attesting to the presence of certain chemicals in retail gasoline.

I think my words and emotions got the best of me with this case. Yet after seeing some of the dealings with investigators it is hard not to see something amiss. Best to you!

 

[DS2021]

American Nightmare
I just watched it, three part series. Great watch IMHO

Really really well done

 

[OckhamsRazor22]

The whole thing was very shocking. Some of the things they said about women and rape were incredibly outdated, false and very sexist.

…not to mention the fact they were unbelievably & shockingly calloused, insensitive, and beyond logic with the statement about females who have been molested. That LEO needs to turn in the badge and service weapon and leave that Line of work post haste.

 

[I am not Sherlock H.]

…not to mention the fact they were unbelievably & shockingly calloused, insensitive, and beyond logic with the statement about females who have been molested. That LEO needs to turn in the badge and service weapon and leave that Line of work post haste.

This is sadly true. And I also highly recommend the Netflix series ‘Unbelievable’, which is about a number of long unsolved rape cases that were ultimately solved. And much of that series deals with potential bias in questioning a rape victim, and eliciting their details. And also between the difference in many cases from a female investigator vs. a male investigator questioning a rape victim. As a father of two daughters this really ‘tears at my craw’. IMO.

 

[OckhamsRazor22]

This is sadly true. And I also highly recommend the Netflix series ‘Unbelievable’, which is about a number of long unsolved rape cases that were ultimately solved. And much of that series deals with potential bias in questioning a rape victim, and eliciting their details. And also between the difference in many cases from a female investigator vs. a male investigator questioning a rape victim. As a father of two daughters this really ‘tears at my craw’. IMO.

Point for point: spot on flawless. It’s demoralizing to think that something so atrocious (pre-conceived notions and ideologies supported by bias within the LE community), now becomes a tool for all of LE and society in general.

I too, highly recommend this documentary. Knowledge is power, and we can only prevent another recurrence by learning from past mistakes (this case was obviously mishandled and completely blundered by the VPD).

I was so struck by her calm demeanor as the powers which be (police detectives) sit across from Denice (the victim - her boyfriend as well) and place zero faith in what she recounted. She was victimized and traumatized by Matthew Muller AND the VPD.

2.5 million is NOT ENOUGH restitution for such a case. I hope they widen the net and also go after the FBI (also muddied the case with the lead from their agency committing a conflict of interest by simply BEING near the victims!). Crazy case, I hope they are at peace now, and know how grateful people remain for the bravery they’ve displayed in the face of this atrocity. The Dublin LE agency was phenomenal. Dogged. Determined. Every agency should strive to fill their coffers with open-minded and progressive LEO’s. The entire 3-part doc sickens me to the core. Still doesn’t sit right. Even when indemnified, the stigma and heaviness surrounding these two is toxic and soul-destroying. 2.5 Million is paltry, not even in the ballpark of what these two deserve. Just my own personal take on the facts.

 

[I am not Sherlock H.]

Point for point: spot on flawless. It’s demoralizing to think that something so atrocious (pre-conceived notions and ideologies supported by bias within the LE community), now becomes a tool for all of LE and society in general.

I too, highly recommend this documentary. Knowledge is power, and we can only prevent another recurrence by learning from past mistakes (this case was obviously mishandled and completely blundered by the VPD).

I was so struck by her calm demeanor as the powers which be (police detectives) sit across from Denice (the victim - her boyfriend as well) and place zero faith in what she recounted. She was victimized and traumatized by Matthew Muller AND the VPD.

2.5 million is NOT ENOUGH restitution for such a case. I hope they widen the net and also go after the FBI (also muddied the case with the lead from their agency committing a conflict of interest by simply BEING near the victims!). Crazy case, I hope they are at peace now, and know how grateful people remain for the bravery they’ve displayed in the face of this atrocity. The Dublin LE agency was phenomenal. Dogged. Determined. Every agency should strive to fill their coffers with open-minded and progressive LEO’s. The entire 3-part doc sickens me to the core. Still doesn’t sit right. Even when indemnified, the stigma and heaviness surrounding these two is toxic and soul-destroying. 2.5 Million is paltry, not even in the ballpark of what these two deserve. Just my own personal take on the facts.

Yes! And on this Matthew Muller case involving Huskins, I would have appreciated much more detail on the prior fiancé, Andrea was it? As there were some possible or alleged connections relating to one of the early investigators? And also Ms. Huskin’s reports that on I believe two occasions other individuals (besides Mr. Muller) were heard by her or present at the remote cabin where she was held. (I don’t think I am confusing this, but it was a lot of territory covered on those 3 episodes. And I am not well versed on all the nuances of this case.) MOO

 

[LinasK]

Yes! And on this Matthew Muller case involving Huskins, I would have appreciated much more detail on the prior fiancé, Andrea was it? As there were some possible or alleged connections relating to one of the early investigators? And also Ms. Huskin’s reports that on I believe two occasions other individuals (besides Mr. Muller) were heard by her or present at the remote cabin where she was held. (I don’t think I am confusing this, but it was a lot of territory covered on those 3 episodes. And I am not well versed on all the nuances of this case.) MOO

From what I recall of this case, Muller played tape recordings while they were both blindfolded to make them think that more individuals were involved. It was part of his ruse. He was the only perp.