CA - Natalie Wood, 43, drowned off California coast, 29 Nov 1981

[Noirdame79]

Thx for the clarification on the boat "caretaker" vs. Captain. Why the heck didn't he jump in and help if he were the only sober one? I put even more failure to act responsibility on him because he was sober.
The whole thing is disgusting. I do find it intriguing that this didn't put an end to RJ's career; not sure what that says about our society. I wonder why the daughters have stood fast to his side?

Davern tried to intervene when he heard them arguing violently in their stateroom; Wagner told him to stay out of it and Davern, being the employee, did what he was told. He was also afraid; he said Wagner looked crazy. Davern regrets not intervening, but he didn't know what to do. Wagner, as the owner of the boat and Natalie's husband, had far more responsibility in this situation. Davern wanted to search for Natalie in the water and Wagner wouldn't let him. Who did more for Natalie here? And who has done more for her since?

Her daughters were not there that night and they have been lied to. He raised them, so what are they supposed to think? If they never saw that side of him, of course they are going to defend him.

Well, celebrity can get you a lot of things. Maybe not in every case, but since the original investigation was closed so quickly and no doubt people wanted to believe that it was a tragic accident (Lana included) and everyone was so caught up in the "Natalie & RJ Love Story" that sympathy immediately went to Wagner.

 

[Noirdame79]

Wow....I didn't know any of this. Very insightful. Sounds to me as if Dennis Davern, if he tells all, could be the only possibility for justice. He must be too frightened to speak? Where is all this RJ power coming from? Who is backing his play? I mean, really, he's a B actor at best.

All amateur opinion and speculation

He was scared; he was also torn because he was friends with both Natalie and Wagner. He didn't see how Natalie got into the water, but over time he realized that her death was not an accident. Wagner actually tried to keep Davern close to him, but Davern eventually left California altogether. Part of it had to do with the grief and pain over Natalie's death. While Wagner has insinuated that Davern is motivated by financial gain (he paints Lana with the same brush), the fact is, Davern earned the money that Wagner paid him as an employee. He owns a boat business in Florida and has been happily married since 1993 and has three children. Lana never received any money from Wagner other than support for her and Natalie's mother Maria, which was stipulated in Natalie's will.

As I mentioned, celebrity can be a shield. So many lies and misconceptions are told. And some people see Wagner as a link to classic Hollywood (hanger-on is more like it).

 

[rosesfromangels]

Davern tried to intervene when he heard them arguing violently in their stateroom; Wagner told him to stay out of it and Davern, being the employee, did what he was told. He was also afraid; he said Wagner looked crazy. Davern regrets not intervening, but he didn't know what to do. Wagner, as the owner of the boat and Natalie's husband, had far more responsibility in this situation. Davern wanted to search for Natalie in the water and Wagner wouldn't let him. Who did more for Natalie here? And who has done more for her since?

Her daughters were not there that night and they have been lied to. He raised them, so what are they supposed to think? If they never saw that side of him, of course they are going to defend him.

Well, celebrity can get you a lot of things. Maybe not in every case, but since the original investigation was closed so quickly and no doubt people wanted to believe that it was a tragic accident (Lana included) and everyone was so caught up in the "Natalie & RJ Love Story" that sympathy immediately went to Wagner.

I understand the employer dynamic, but the boat caretaker failed to act. He will have to live with that for the rest of his life, and I'm sure he has.

I was quite young when this happened, and I seem to remember the story was she was in a puffer jacket floating out in the water calling for help? (Which RJ refused to provide, or let Davern provide allegedly). What I am unclear on, had she taken the dinghy and fallen in the water, or how did she end up in the water?

If memory serves me, she was in the water yelling for help for awhile? Anyone know how long?

But according to this article, unless he knocked her unconscious and threw her in the water....he's not liable:
"In fact, there is no common law in the U.S. that states the public, outside of paid service such as law enforcement, doctors and firefighters, has a duty to rescue someone in danger."

Sounds like ol' RJ is all good. http://www.abc10.com/article/news/l...-california-to-help-in-an-emergency/458683064

 

[Noirdame79]

I understand the employer dynamic, but the boat caretaker failed to act. He will have to live with that for the rest of his life, and I'm sure he has.

I was quite young when this happened, and I seem to remember the story was she was in a puffer jacket floating out in the water calling for help? (Which RJ refused to provide, or let Davern provide allegedly). What I am unclear on, had she taken the dinghy and fallen in the water, or how did she end up in the water?

If memory serves me, she was in the water yelling for help for awhile? Anyone know how long?

But according to this article, unless he knocked her unconscious and threw her in the water....he's not liable:
"In fact, there is no common law in the U.S. that states the public, outside of paid service such as law enforcement, doctors and firefighters, has a duty to rescue someone in danger."

Sounds like ol' RJ is all good. http://www.abc10.com/article/news/l...-california-to-help-in-an-emergency/458683064

Well, even the coroner noted that Natalie had no dingy scratches on her; it's been confirmed that Natalie rarely drove the dingy; and Davern noticed the dingy (which was secured by two ropes at the back of the boat) was missing when Wagner told him to search the boat for Natalie, which was several minutes after Natalie "disappeared", and Davern has stated that he knows for a fact that neither Natalie nor Walken untied the dingy

There have been conflicting stories, about Natalie calling for help, but it's been concluded now that she was likely unconscious when she ended up in the water (the fact that she had a full bladder supports this). And given the bruises on her face and body, it is likely that Wagner assaulted her before he put into the water. The problem is, none of the witnesses saw how Natalie ended up in the ocean that night.

It was Wagner who failed to call for help for two hours. Again, his wife, his responsibility.

 

[BeachSky]

What do you think of Wagner sending the captain to identify her body ?

 

[rosesfromangels]

What do you think of Wagner sending the captain to identify her body ?

I'm not drawing a firm conclusion one way or the other. Everyone reacts differently. Some people must see the deceased, no matter how gruesome. Others can't handle it.

The only point I'm hung up on is whether she herself got in, and launched that dinghy. It was said she was deathly afraid of water, but she was also inebriated. Drunk people do dumb stuff.
I do wonder how much more Walken and the boat crewman know and aren't saying...or the DA isn't releasing.
Unless Natalie had a contusion to the head that could have rendered her unconscious, or was strangled, I think it's highly unlikely this case would ever go to trial.

While it sounds like her husband was a total jerk, I honestly don't think he killed her.
I think this was a booze filled misadventure that resulted in this tragic loss.

All amateur speculation and opinion.

 

[redheadedgal]

I understand the employer dynamic, but the boat caretaker failed to act. He will have to live with that for the rest of his life, and I'm sure he has.

I was quite young when this happened, and I seem to remember the story was she was in a puffer jacket floating out in the water calling for help? (Which RJ refused to provide, or let Davern provide allegedly). What I am unclear on, had she taken the dinghy and fallen in the water, or how did she end up in the water?

If memory serves me, she was in the water yelling for help for awhile? Anyone know how long?

But according to this article, unless he knocked her unconscious and threw her in the water....he's not liable:
"In fact, there is no common law in the U.S. that states the public, outside of paid service such as law enforcement, doctors and firefighters, has a duty to rescue someone in danger."

Sounds like ol' RJ is all good. http://www.abc10.com/article/news/l...-california-to-help-in-an-emergency/458683064

an entry in rulli's blog theorized she might've been alive almost until she was found. the lack of rigor supported this ascertain.

 

[BeachSky]

an entry in rulli's blog theorized she might've been alive almost until she was found. the lack of rigor supported this ascertain.

Wow. Wagner in his interview about the “accident” said he wished he could of been there for her. To not only delay but to personally NOT go looking for her OR identify her body is Definately Not Being ANYTHING for her. It was only hours. Not like she was missing for days or decomposed. IMO he didn’t want to face what he had done.
JMO

 

[BeachSky]

This is Richard Gregson’s interview about the days post Natalie’s death.
He is her ex and father of her daughter Natasha.
Hindsight, it’s interesting what he said( back then) about Wagner.
https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2012/jun/02/natalie-wood-drowning-richard-gregson

 

[Noirdame79]

What do you think of Wagner sending the captain to identify her body ?

My theory is that Wagner didn't want to face the reality of what he'd done and if he had identified her body, there was a possibility that he might slip up or give himself away.

 

[Noirdame79]

The only point I'm hung up on is whether she herself got in, and launched that dinghy. It was said she was deathly afraid of water, but she was also inebriated. Drunk people do dumb stuff.

Again, Natalie's blood alcohol was illegal for driving, but was not unreasonable at a social drinking level; nothing would have changed her fear of water. I'm tired of seeing the "she was drunk" comments; it's like Wagner trying to blame her for her own death for years in order to divert suspicion from him. Natalie had a lifelong fear of drowning; driving the dingy was something that she rarely did; she was in a nightgown with no underwear!

 

[rosesfromangels]

Again, Natalie's blood alcohol was illegal for driving, but was not unreasonable at a social drinking level; nothing would have changed her fear of water. I'm tired of seeing the "she was drunk" comments; it's like Wagner trying to blame her for her own death for years in order to divert suspicion from him. Natalie had a lifelong fear of drowning; driving the dingy was something that she rarely did; she was in a nightgown with no underwear!

Your position is clear, and may very well be right. However distasteful Wagner may be to some, this case is certainly not clear cut or he would have been in jail years ago.

We know they were drinking, and we know they were both angry and arguing. Upthread someone stated she had left the night before and stayed in a motel. She was probably headed off to do that again, or just get away from him.
Booze and water don’t mix. IMHO, this is a tragic accident.
Could she have been saved? It certainly sounds like it!
There is no law in California that mandates you must come to aide.
Wagner was angry and obviously didn’t want to help her.
Should that be a crime? Yes, I do, but it’s not.

 

[Iamthegogmagog]

LAPD has nothing better to do with two detectives than spend their time "solving" this unsolvably sordid, decades-old, mess? Something must grow on trees out there; or at least fertilize them.

 

[Betty P]

Again, Natalie's blood alcohol was illegal for driving, but was not unreasonable at a social drinking level; nothing would have changed her fear of water. I'm tired of seeing the "she was drunk" comments; it's like Wagner trying to blame her for her own death for years in order to divert suspicion from him. Natalie had a lifelong fear of drowning; driving the dingy was something that she rarely did; she was in a nightgown with no underwear!

The captain said she didn't know how to operate the dinghy and wouldn't have tried on her own. She also never learned how to untie it from the two cleats it was moored to on the back of the yacht. If she wanted to leave, she would have the captain take her, as he did the night before. JMO, it sounds like it was some kind of arguing with a shoving match, during which she fell overboard.

 

[Noirdame79]

The captain said she didn't know how to operate the dinghy and wouldn't have tried on her own. She also never learned how to untie it from the two cleats it was moored to on the back of the yacht. If she wanted to leave, she would have the captain take her, as he did the night before. JMO, it sounds like it was some kind of arguing with a shoving match, during which she fell overboard.

There are photos of her driving the dingy, but it was not something she did on a regular basis and she would not have done it alone. You are 100% correct that she would have taken a shore boat to leave the Splendour as she had before. Given that Natalie had a large abrasion on her check, she was hit in the face at least one time. Her bladder being full indicates that she was either unconscious or near unconscious when she ended up in the water. As there are no statutes of limitations on murder, if this case is going to be pursued to the full they will be going for Murder One.

 

[Noirdame79]

Wow. Wagner in his interview about the “accident” said he wished he could of been there for her. To not only delay but to personally NOT go looking for her OR identify her body is Definately Not Being ANYTHING for her. It was only hours. Not like she was missing for days or decomposed. IMO he didn’t want to face what he had done.
JMO

I find it also telling that he has often said of Natalie, "she left us". Uh, no, you killed her. More of blaming her for leaving this earth, as if she did that voluntarily. And again, he said "we think she slipped and fell, and hit her head". Who's "we"? And then his quote "Natalie rolled into the water". Uh, yeah, okay RJ.

 

[Noirdame79]

This is Richard Gregson’s interview about the days post Natalie’s death.
He is her ex and father of her daughter Natasha.
Hindsight, it’s interesting what he said( back then) about Wagner.
https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2012/jun/02/natalie-wood-drowning-richard-gregson

Thank you for sharing that article. Wagner did not want Natasha to have a relationship with Gregson, but as her father he had legal rights and she spent summers with him and his wife Julia in Wales. Natasha considers Julia her stepmother, not Jill St John. Notice how possessive Wagner was of Natasha and how he was threatened by Gregson, telling him "don't break up the family", when Wagner is the one who killed Natalie. He had some nerve.

 

[animlzrule]

Your position is clear, and may very well be right. However distasteful Wagner may be to some, this case is certainly not clear cut or he would have been in jail years ago.

We know they were drinking, and we know they were both angry and arguing. Upthread someone stated she had left the night before and stayed in a motel. She was probably headed off to do that again, or just get away from him.
Booze and water don’t mix. IMHO, this is a tragic accident.
Could she have been saved? It certainly sounds like it!
There is no law in California that mandates you must come to aide.
Wagner was angry and obviously didn’t want to help her.
Should that be a crime? Yes, I do, but it’s not.

I agree, and I think Occam's razor applies here. She had watched the launch and operation of the dinghy the night before. I imagine in her drunken snit she thought, "I'll show him" and went out in a fit of anger feeling like she could fend for herself with the dinghy. With a dangerous mix of adrenaline, alcohol and indignation she struggles, she slips/trips and falls. Any visible injuries are easily explained as consequences of the fall. Similar scenes probably played out all the time between the two of them on land. This was most likely and logically an accident and I'll be shocked if there's ever an indictment. I'm guessing RW feels a sense of shame and regret about her death, and probably doesn't even remember a lot of what went on that night.

 

[BeachSky]

[FONT=&amp]Sounds like victim blaming logic.
You argue that if she does anything the previous night that becomes her modus operandi . If she was drunk did she deserve abuse? HE esculated the tension that night.
Narssist love to have melt downs & strike out, blame those around them for the (their) outburst. When ,they ,in fact are the very ones that start the drama, the course of bad events. Like a murder.

JMO[/FONT]

 

[redheadedgal]

driving the dingy was something that she rarely did...

until i just searched this, i thought so too. however, this huffpost article says

Bad weather was predicted for the night of November 28. A cold piercing rain swept over Isthmus Bay, pummeling the faces of those going ashore in small boats for dinner. But the sea was not rough, and the dinghies had no difficulty negotiating the waves. Twice, earlier that day, [our chief consultant on ocean accidents] Paul Miller had seen Natalie Wood “buzz” in to shore in her dinghy alone.

https://www.huffingtonpost.com/the-lineup/what-really-happened-the_b_8594972.html