CA - Natalie Wood, 43, drowned off California coast, 29 Nov 1981
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neesaki
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Nothing really new, Nancy Grace was on too. Lana did mention Natalie always took a sleeping pill because she had a fear of not being able to sleep, she believes she took one when she went to her room, before returning to the deck. It was afte that that RJ continued the fight.
Again, she had a deep fear of water. A lot of suspicions voiced, including re: all the bruising... and, why she would go out with no underwear, in only a gown, and jacket and get in a dingy, especially with her fear of water.
And Daverns changed his story without explaination.
And her sister Lana was black listed in Hollywood, that’s not new.
I think what I found most interesting is that they all seemed to be tip toeing very carefully around while walking on egg shells. Even Nancy, that’s a new one! She doesn’t think there will ever be any prosecution.
All I can say is, why so much power associated with someone like Robert Wagner? I never considered him a big deal, mostly a TV guy, pretty boy .... if not for Natalie! Where does all the power come from, what is he, the antichrist? Strange... Something just seems off.
Again, she had a deep fear of water. A lot of suspicions voiced, including re: all the bruising... and, why she would go out with no underwear, in only a gown, and jacket and get in a dingy, especially with her fear of water.
And Daverns changed his story without explaination.
And her sister Lana was black listed in Hollywood, that’s not new.
I think what I found most interesting is that they all seemed to be tip toeing very carefully around while walking on egg shells. Even Nancy, that’s a new one! She doesn’t think there will ever be any prosecution.
All I can say is, why so much power associated with someone like Robert Wagner? I never considered him a big deal, mostly a TV guy, pretty boy .... if not for Natalie! Where does all the power come from, what is he, the antichrist? Strange... Something just seems off.
Noirdame79
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He was a big TV star at the time, but other than that, I don't understand how he gets such loyalty. He's a terrible actor, for one. But I think a large part of that is he's a major butt-kisser where old Hollywood is concerned. He and Robert Osborne of TCM were tight; he mimicked classic stars like Cary Grant; the books he has published lately are all about the people he knew and worked with in Hollywood, etc. He rode on the coattails of Natalie's fame; notice how he accuses other people of trying to make money off of her if they write a book or talk about her but it's perfectly okay for him to use her image and her name when it suits him. The timing of the coffee table book on Natalie was deliberate - trying to paint himself as the grieving widower again, hoping that it would divert the public's attention from the ongoing homicide investigation. I guess some people cling to him as one of the last links to old Hollywood, but in my opinion he was never in the same league. He wishes he was. And that was a big part of not only what ended his first marriage to Natalie but also one of the reasons he killed her (and yes, I believe that 100%). He knew she was far more talented than he was, and the fact that she wanted to go back to acting full-time bothered him. It would be a repeat of what had happened before. He wanted her to stay home, while he basked in the limelight. He couldn't let her divorce him because that would leave him with nothing.
Noirdame79
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Did this man have children? Because even Natalie's daughter Natasha stated that Jill was never a mother figure to her and her sister; she was only their for Wagner. The girls didn't warm up to Jill for years.
A 93-year-old former concentration camp prison guard was convicted of genocide murders that happened during WW2, so age is not necessarily a factor in accountability. It may factor into sentencing, however.
Noirdame79
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Let me also point out that Wagner has given conflicting accounts, both in his original interview with police, as well as the awful biography of Natalie he sanctioned, Natalie Wood: A Life by Gavin Lambert (a more fitting title would have been Natalie Wood: A Lie) and his autobiography, Pieces Of My Heart (aka Pieces Of Lies). He denied smashing the wine bottle in 1981, about which the late Duane Rasure attributed to "rough seas". However, after Dennis Davern stated that Wagner smashed the wine bottle over a fit of jealousy over Natalie and Christopher Walken, and stated, "What are you trying to do? ****** my wife?" to which Natalie responded that she'd had enough of his crap, Wagner changed his story. In Lambert's book and his autobio, he states that Natalie was down below when he smashed the bottle and said to Walken, "What are you trying to do? ****** with her career?" And three witnesses other than Davern confirming that Wagner had a loud, violent argument with Natalie on the boat deck shortly before she "disappeared" is hardly circumstantial, and is more proof of his lies. And there is no reason whatsoever for him to delay calling for help unless he didn't want to take the chance of her being found alive. The word "accident" being removed as cause of death is confirmation that the bruises were consistent with a struggle. In both his interview with Charlie Rose and his autobiography, Wagner makes the telling comment that Natalie "rolled into the water". How does he know she rolled into the water? Because he rolled her into the water!
Lambert's book paints a terrible picture of Natalie's family, showing the contempt that Wagner had for her parents and younger sister. A paternity claim that has never been proven, plus lots of insinuations that Natalie was to blame for her own death, that she was unstable, an alcoholic, etc. A statement that Natalie's liver was compromised due to heavy drinking was disproven by her autopsy report, showing that she had a perfectly healthy liver. The drivel even states at one point that "Natalie liked to get drunk and swish her tail" which seems uncannily like Wagner's insinuation in his forward in the coffee table book that she would "do anything to get parts". His tone is not only paternalistic, but misogynistic.
An interesting tidbit from Lambert's book actually exposes Wagner's violent drunken personality. When Natalie and her family went to Hawaii in 1979, where Natalie filmed the television miniseries From Here To Eternity, one night, Wagner became so jealous of Natalie's chemistry with William Devane, that, in a druken rage, he tried to throw himself out of the hotel window. He had to be physically restrained and was put to bed. That should be a big hint right there.
Lambert's book paints a terrible picture of Natalie's family, showing the contempt that Wagner had for her parents and younger sister. A paternity claim that has never been proven, plus lots of insinuations that Natalie was to blame for her own death, that she was unstable, an alcoholic, etc. A statement that Natalie's liver was compromised due to heavy drinking was disproven by her autopsy report, showing that she had a perfectly healthy liver. The drivel even states at one point that "Natalie liked to get drunk and swish her tail" which seems uncannily like Wagner's insinuation in his forward in the coffee table book that she would "do anything to get parts". His tone is not only paternalistic, but misogynistic.
An interesting tidbit from Lambert's book actually exposes Wagner's violent drunken personality. When Natalie and her family went to Hawaii in 1979, where Natalie filmed the television miniseries From Here To Eternity, one night, Wagner became so jealous of Natalie's chemistry with William Devane, that, in a druken rage, he tried to throw himself out of the hotel window. He had to be physically restrained and was put to bed. That should be a big hint right there.
Noirdame79
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New Witnesses, New Questions in Natalie Wood’s Mysterious Death at Sea
The weekend outing was meant as a celebration of friendship.
Robert Wagner and Natalie Wood, the glamorous and youthful Hollywood couple, had invited the actor Christopher Walken to join them for an overnight sail off California’s Catalina Island on the couple’s yacht over Thanksgiving weekend 1981.
But there was tension throughout. And in the dark night of Nov. 28, Wood, 43, vanished from the boat. Her body was found floating the next morning clad only in a burgundy nightgown, blue socks and red down coat. It was the tragic realization of her oft-expressed fear of dark waters and drowning.
Authorities said at the time that her death was an accident: Officials theorized that Wood may have been trying to flee the boat on a dinghy and fallen into the water. But her death nonetheless fanned rumor and innuendo, and in 2011 authorities reopened the case.
The initial investigation 30 years earlier had revealed an alcohol-fueled night described by a fourth person on the boat, its captain, Dennis Davern. Indeed, the coroner found Wood had a “slightly intoxicated” blood-alcohol level when her body was found.
Wagner himself wrote in a 2008 memoir that he and Walken — Wood’s co-star in the film Brainstorm — had argued that night over Walken’s opinions about Wood’s career, to the point that Wagner grabbed a wine bottle, slammed and smashed it.
Yet the conflicts onboard — with an overheard argument so heated between Wagner and Wood that Davern feared an assault was taking place — have come into focus because of recent witness statements, Los Angeles Sheriff’s Department Lt. John Corina said recently.
The emergence of those witnesses “just opened up more questions,” Corina said, and those questions in turn “made us more suspicious.”
Wagner has long said he had no involvement in Wood’s death, and he has never been named a suspect. A sheriff’s department spokeswoman, Nicole Nishida, tells PEOPLE that the last time the office requested an interview with Wagner was late in 2012.
He refused to speak with investigators after they began to look again into the circumstances surrounding Wood’s death. His attorney has not responded to PEOPLE’s request for comment.
A source close to the Wagner family tells PEOPLE, “Robert Wagner has not been contacted by law enforcement in over five years nor has he been alerted that there has been any change in the status of the case. In addition, the so-called ‘new’ witnesses they are referring to are the same ones that they had years ago.”
But Corina says that in light of those witness statements, he wants to speak with Wagner again about Wood’s death.
“He’s a person of interest,” he says, “because he was the last person with her . . . on the back of the boat before everything went quiet.:"
http://people.com/crime/natalie-wood-robert-wagner-mysterious-death/
What a liar Wagner is. These witnesses were not interviewed in 1981. And I've since learned that any statements he has made in books can be used against him if he's declared a suspect and brought to trial - good to know.
The weekend outing was meant as a celebration of friendship.
Robert Wagner and Natalie Wood, the glamorous and youthful Hollywood couple, had invited the actor Christopher Walken to join them for an overnight sail off California’s Catalina Island on the couple’s yacht over Thanksgiving weekend 1981.
But there was tension throughout. And in the dark night of Nov. 28, Wood, 43, vanished from the boat. Her body was found floating the next morning clad only in a burgundy nightgown, blue socks and red down coat. It was the tragic realization of her oft-expressed fear of dark waters and drowning.
Authorities said at the time that her death was an accident: Officials theorized that Wood may have been trying to flee the boat on a dinghy and fallen into the water. But her death nonetheless fanned rumor and innuendo, and in 2011 authorities reopened the case.
The initial investigation 30 years earlier had revealed an alcohol-fueled night described by a fourth person on the boat, its captain, Dennis Davern. Indeed, the coroner found Wood had a “slightly intoxicated” blood-alcohol level when her body was found.
Wagner himself wrote in a 2008 memoir that he and Walken — Wood’s co-star in the film Brainstorm — had argued that night over Walken’s opinions about Wood’s career, to the point that Wagner grabbed a wine bottle, slammed and smashed it.
Yet the conflicts onboard — with an overheard argument so heated between Wagner and Wood that Davern feared an assault was taking place — have come into focus because of recent witness statements, Los Angeles Sheriff’s Department Lt. John Corina said recently.
The emergence of those witnesses “just opened up more questions,” Corina said, and those questions in turn “made us more suspicious.”
Wagner has long said he had no involvement in Wood’s death, and he has never been named a suspect. A sheriff’s department spokeswoman, Nicole Nishida, tells PEOPLE that the last time the office requested an interview with Wagner was late in 2012.
He refused to speak with investigators after they began to look again into the circumstances surrounding Wood’s death. His attorney has not responded to PEOPLE’s request for comment.
A source close to the Wagner family tells PEOPLE, “Robert Wagner has not been contacted by law enforcement in over five years nor has he been alerted that there has been any change in the status of the case. In addition, the so-called ‘new’ witnesses they are referring to are the same ones that they had years ago.”
But Corina says that in light of those witness statements, he wants to speak with Wagner again about Wood’s death.
“He’s a person of interest,” he says, “because he was the last person with her . . . on the back of the boat before everything went quiet.:"
http://people.com/crime/natalie-wood-robert-wagner-mysterious-death/
What a liar Wagner is. These witnesses were not interviewed in 1981. And I've since learned that any statements he has made in books can be used against him if he's declared a suspect and brought to trial - good to know.
Noirdame79
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Lana Wood stated regarding Gavin Lambert's book, "I was so incredibly upset I had to stop reading and will never finish the crap. He [Lambert] has lied about every single thing he has said about me, and therefore, I would assume everything else is a lie too - orchestrated by RJ. I was recently told that RJ warned Gavin if he ever spoke to me, RJ would remove his sanction from the book, and tell everyone else not to speak to Gavin, and therefore Gavin would not have a book at all. Where . . . . does this irrational hatred come from? If I am guilty of anything, it is being too complacent and allowing RJ to get away with everything he has! Gavin is not a dear friend of Nat's. He was an acquaintance that she worked with and she loved gays! He is tied to RJ, and I don't doubt that he was compromised."
This case has been very hard on Lana; anyone who states otherwise or insinuates that she is after money or attention is either deluded or speaking from Wagner's camp. On top of this, she is still grieving over the death of her only child, who passed away last year. Wagner and his camp continually put her down and tell lies about her, and we all know who that benefits. She wants the truth, she wants justice. But she still mourns the family she has lost, not only by losing Natalie, but having her nieces cut out of her life. She did not deserve any of that.
This case has been very hard on Lana; anyone who states otherwise or insinuates that she is after money or attention is either deluded or speaking from Wagner's camp. On top of this, she is still grieving over the death of her only child, who passed away last year. Wagner and his camp continually put her down and tell lies about her, and we all know who that benefits. She wants the truth, she wants justice. But she still mourns the family she has lost, not only by losing Natalie, but having her nieces cut out of her life. She did not deserve any of that.
neesaki
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I always liked Robert Osborne, TCM isn’t the same without him. But never understood how he was such good friends with Wagner... or maybe I do. :/.
Anyway, whenever Wagner was on with him I always changed the channel, he’s too repulsive to watch. JMO
Noirdame79
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Here's something interesting about the late Robert Osborne - he used to tell stories about Natalie but once he and Wagner became "buddies" he rarely talked about her after that. Hmmm. Anyway, I noticed that he seemed to make a point of bringing up Wagner, even if he only had a small role in the films he was discussing and/or that TCM was showing. I always thought that he and Wagner kind of resembled each other, actually.
Yeah, I can't stand watching him either (although, in the original A Kiss Before Dying (1956) he probably wasn't "acting"). I've seen a few of the movies he was in (including the ones he made with Natalie) and it's so clear that he was out of his league. Bland, boring, flat, monotonous voice, etc. Wagner was good-looking in his younger days but nothing special. What is really big about him (besides his head, LOL) is his ego. Narcissistic to the core.
Noirdame79
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[video=youtube;xXwxkagEiD4]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xXwxkagEiD4[/video]
Noirdame79
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neesaki
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Interesting point about RO’s discussion of Natalie changing. I always thought he and RJ resembled one another too, I even looked it up once thinking they could be related, lol. And totally agree RJ is narcissistic to the core, he knew exactly who he needed to manipulate to benefit himself and how to do it. I can see him being the perfect charmer in almost any social situation. But IMO, that night wasn’t going his way, and his jealousy got the best of him. He lost control, as in totally lost it, and became vengeful, violent, and cruel. JMO
Noirdame79
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[video=youtube;RcO9jsZYmlw]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RcO9jsZYmlw[/video]
rosesfromangels
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Did things go down exactly as RJ portrayed? I doubt it. You had an allegedly inebriated couple who was fighting. Booze, jealously, one can't swim....all the ingredients for a tragedy, that happened.
Did RJ murder her? Doubt it.
Did RJ refuse to help her when she called for help? Certainly sounds like it.
Did Natalie drown as a result of no one coming to her aide when she called for help? Sounds like it.
RJ was drunk and pissed off and didn't help.
What excuse can the boat's captain use? He failed to help Natalie and he wasn't drunk was he? Lose his job or not, he should have dove in or attempted to rescue her, or called 911.
This case will never go to trial. Too much reasonable doubt and the memories of an old 87 year old actor. Let him stand in judgement to a higher authority, and we can assume that day isn't too far away.
And finally, while I have always been sympathetic to Lana, the sister, I think it looks very opportunistic to set up a Go Fund Me. Poor Natalie. Such a cast of characters in this sad tale.
All amateur speculation and opinion.
Did RJ murder her? Doubt it.
Did RJ refuse to help her when she called for help? Certainly sounds like it.
Did Natalie drown as a result of no one coming to her aide when she called for help? Sounds like it.
RJ was drunk and pissed off and didn't help.
What excuse can the boat's captain use? He failed to help Natalie and he wasn't drunk was he? Lose his job or not, he should have dove in or attempted to rescue her, or called 911.
This case will never go to trial. Too much reasonable doubt and the memories of an old 87 year old actor. Let him stand in judgement to a higher authority, and we can assume that day isn't too far away.
And finally, while I have always been sympathetic to Lana, the sister, I think it looks very opportunistic to set up a Go Fund Me. Poor Natalie. Such a cast of characters in this sad tale.
All amateur speculation and opinion.
Noirdame79
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Yep, he couldn't let her leave him. It's also interesting to note that the night before, Natalie went ashore with Dennis Davern and spent the night at a motel (she reserved separate rooms for them, but he ultimately slept on the floor because she didn't want to be alone), after an argument with Wagner. She trusted Davern; he often babysat her daughters and she confided to him the problems in her marriage. She was tired of Wagner's drinking and his jealousy. The only reason she went back to the Splendour the next morning initially was to ask Christopher Walken (who was suffering from seasickness) if he wanted to go back to LA via seaplane with her. Wagner convinced her to stay. Again, the charm. But he was so jealous of her, and of the men she co-starred with.
While what Walken told detectives has not been publicly revealed, one thing he will say is if people want to know what is going on regarding the case, they should watch the news coverage. It's clear that he and Wagner are NOT friends.
It's also been downplayed how close Dennis Davern was with the family; his late brother, Paul, was frequent guest on the Splendour and Davern himself went to several parties at Natalie and Wagner's home.
Noirdame79
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Again, age means NOTHING. If a man in his nineties can be found accountable in a court of law for his part of genocide murders in a WW2 concentration camp, a man in his eighties can be held accountable for murder. There are cold cases older than this one that have been successfully prosecuted. Why should this case be any different? Because Wagner is a celebrity? Faulty logic.
As for where the case goes, we'll have to wait and see. But considerable progress has been made and information and evidence has been made public; far more than what Wagner has stated and what the public has been fed since Natalie's tragic and preventable death.
Lana Wood wants truth and justice for her sister. That's all. Wagner tries to discredit her because he feared from the start that she saw through his lies. Wagner can use Natalie's name whenever he wants, but her sister can't talk about her or write about her or give her opinion about her death or want justice? And that is what the page is about. Not about her, it's about justice for her sister.
rosesfromangels
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Sorry if my post was a bit rambling and not crisp. I don't think there is enough to convict Wagner. His failure to act, IMO, isn't as culpable as that of the boat captain. By accounts, I understood that both Wagners were inebriated and querulous. The boat captain was the only one of sound mind at the time, perhaps. If RJ was as blitzed as portrayed in accounts, he probably doesn't even remember what happened that night.
I don't question his actions as much as I do the boat captains.
And no, I'm not a fan of Robert Wagner. I always thought he was a vacuous pretty boy drafting off the star power of his wife.
Regarding the Go Fund Me - we will have to agree to disagree on that one. Lana can get plenty of publicity for Natalie without a Go Fund Me. This is a hot topic in the news again....
All amateur speculation and opinion.
Noirdame79
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It's possible, even likely, that there is more that hasn't been made public yet. Again, we're playing the waiting game. But as I said, this is far more than what we've known before. Also, Dennis Davern was the boat caretaker, the true captain was Robert Wagner, the owner. Davern tried to come forward in 1984 but was dismissed, in large part because Wagner is a celebrity, which the latter uses as a shield.
Again, Wagner is the only one who is not cooperating. If he were truly innocent, not only would he have nothing to hide, but he would want to know what happened to Natalie. As mentioned previously, any comments or statements he has made publicly or in books since Natalie's death can be used against him legally, undoubtedly another reason he's not talking. He has said some derogatory things about Natalie in books, trying to put the blame on her for her death. He's come just short of calling her crazy and an addict. Anything to divert suspicion and blame from him.
Lana is in dire financial straits, which she has never denied. She would put up money herself if she could. To be in a bad financial state and asking for assistance isn't shameful or wrong; and it's for her sister. Wagner has lived off of Natalie's money and fame, as have her daughters.
rosesfromangels
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Thx for the clarification on the boat "caretaker" vs. Captain. Why the heck didn't he jump in and help if he were the only sober one? I put even more failure to act responsibility on him because he was sober.
The whole thing is disgusting. I do find it intriguing that this didn't put an end to RJ's career; not sure what that says about our society. I wonder why the daughters have stood fast to his side?
rosesfromangels
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Wow....I didn't know any of this. Very insightful. Sounds to me as if Dennis Davern, if he tells all, could be the only possibility for justice. He must be too frightened to speak? Where is all this RJ power coming from? Who is backing his play? I mean, really, he's a B actor at best.
All amateur opinion and speculation