CA - Off Duty Police Officer shoots man and parents after altercation in Costco, Corona, June 2019

[Wagtales10]

But we have to provide links when making statements and asked for them, as to specific, easily verifiable facts.

Right. Exactly.

Also the links were posted and im not a dog to play fetch with them for someone who wont go look at it themselves

 

[jjenny]

https://www.wklaw.com/california-self-defense-laws/

A jury is instructed to find you innocent of homicide, assault or other charges if you were acting reasonably under the circumstance. A reasonable circumstance under California Jury Instructions #505 and #506 means:

• You reasonably believed you were in danger of being injured or killed;
• You reasonably believed that you needed to use force to prevent this from happening; and
• You used no more force than was necessary to stop the threat.4

...

OK, so under Ca law he doesn't have a duty to retreat. However I don't see anywhere that he is also allowed to shoot his attacker's parents.

 

[Reasonable & Just]

https://www.wklaw.com/california-self-defense-laws/

California Self Defense Laws Outside of Your Home (CALCRIM #505 and #506)
Of course, not all self-defense situations occur inside your home. Even though there is not a specific statute for standing your ground, California law does recognize your right to defend yourself with deadly force. California Jury Instructions (CALCRIM #505 and #506) describe this as “justifiable homicide.”

A jury is instructed to find you innocent of homicide, assault or other charges if you were acting reasonably under the circumstance. A reasonable circumstance under California Jury Instructions #505 and #506 means:

• You reasonably believed you were in danger of being injured or killed;
• You reasonably believed that you needed to use force to prevent this from happening; and
• You used no more force than was necessary to stop the threat.4

If you are facing a reasonable threat of being injured or killed, you do not have to run away under California law. As long as you did not make the first strike, a skilled criminal defense attorney can argue that you were acting in self-defense.

Thank you for this. So, I wonder if he called for help first before firing 6-7 shots, and how that plays into the"believing he needed to use force", and "using no more force than necessary". I imagine the setting (a crowded store) is relevant if the person or persons he believed were attacking him were unarmed.

 

[jjenny]

So apparently there was enough time between the shove and the shooting for the father to try to talk to the cop? Is that the argument people believed they heard?

"Galipo told reporters in various interviews that French -- having recently been taken off his medications due to health reasons -- pushed or shoved the officer in the back in a food-sample line, but he denied that there was any deadly threat to the officer. He also said French's father tried to explain to the officer that his son was intellectually disabled."
Conflicting Accounts Emerge In Off-Duty Cop's Triple Shooting

 

[Reasonable & Just]

Also, 6-7 shots...how does that play in to necessary amount of force? Did he believe the parents were attacking him, too? Were they shielding their son? If so, why keep firing at them? We really need more facts (and a tape). Either way, what a miserable mess The shooter's family must be traumatized as well.

 

[BelleIsle]

This is a terrifying scenario. To have people who may not be knowing what is happening just shooting to protect themselves begins to feel like the "wild west" to me. IMO, if that is the case, then this officer should not be on the street patrolling b/c the public is not safe.

I guess we'll see what the video says. I can only imagine that the officer and his baby were on the ground and a huge man was coming at them in a menacing manner. But, that's just in my imagination at this point.

 

[BelleIsle]

From your post: 7 shots is excessive, though ...

That’s the biggest problem that is happening. These cops are immediately going to the gun and then just keep shooting. The whole point is that, crazy situation or not, cops are supposed to have been trained so they don’t react before they think.

Yes, I agree.

 

[jjenny]

Also, 6-7 shots...how does that play in to necessary amount of force? Did he believe the parents were attacking him, too? Were they shielding their son? If so, why keep firing at them? We really need more facts (and a tape). Either way, what a miserable mess The shooter's family must be traumatized as well.

Per the defense lawyer for the victim's family, father of the victim supposedly was trying to explain to the cop that the victim was mentally disabled. Nobody (even cop's own defense lawyer) so far claimed parents did anything to attack the cop.

 

[Sillybilly]

Attacking another member is not allowed. Some antagonistic and inflammatory posts have been removed.

If you can't be totally respectful to others, then don't post.

Also, it is NOT necessary to respond to every single post. Scroll and roll ... without stopping enroute to make some rude, caustic or personalized comment.

 

[Sillybilly]

Thread is open again.

 

[Eclipse]

I don't think we have enough info yet. I think people are forming opinions quickly based on biases they have.

I admit I have biases. I'm very pro LE.

But I'm also anti police unjustifiably killing of unarmed people, who are predominately people of color or people with mental health issues, and receiving no consequences due to public bias against their victims. And I believe that has happened and does happen repeatedly in our country due to prejudices that certain people are inherently violent or more dangerous.

I'm also very much against cover ups by LE.

The shooter was not on duty. So he should be treated like anyone else - arrested for homicide of some sort, tested, processed and named to the public. Which can be important.

There's no reason to hold back the video, IMO, unless it shows something they feel could be damaging to the shooter. And if the shooter wasn't a cop, it would be released, I believe.

That concerns me.

You know I watch a lot of videos f first amendment auditors and sovereign citizens. I really can't stand them. They typically purposefully and aggressively bait the cops, cause the cops to fear for their lives and create scary and unnecessary situations that led to arrests and could easily lead to deaths. (Occasionally they have).

I feel for the cops in those situations. They give so many chances. They show a lot of patience. Much more than the baiters deserve. And when the baiters get shot or hurt I actually don't feel sorry for them. Not really.

Case in point, one came to a Jewish temple here in So Cal recently. A tall, masculine-looking woman, (trans) who stood outside a temple silently filming.

When they do this, they seem to purposefully act ominously at times.

She was shot by the paid security guard. He was not charged because in light of the mass shootings we've had his reaction was seen as reasonable to the perceived threat.

I agree he should not be charged.

But when I see cops using their bodies to block someone from filming an arrest or detention, or grabbing their cameras, ordering them to get inside and notfilm, creating fake charges to go after them for filming or protesting or whatever, that I have a problem with.

So yes I am pro cop. But I'm also anti-abuse of power.

My biases make me think that in this case something is wrong because of the different treatment of this off duty cop and the failure to release the recording.

I also find the cop's story illogical. Possible but not probable.

Still reading/catching up. If another parent was there- that would eliminate the only protection of the child thoughts I had. Sometimes I think police officers/people with guns panic when someone is coming at them/in the act of overpowering them because they fear the gun will be taken from them and used against them.

 

[BelleIsle]

How does an infant fall to the floor when the adult holding him is knocked unconscious, and sustain zero injuries?

I've seen something similar to this happen at a restaurant, but from a seated position. Dad was holding baby, leaning back in flimsy plastic chair with a cracked leg (unbeknownst to him), which broke. Dad falls backwards, while holding baby, someone to the side grabs baby from his arms. Dad was Mr. Isle , he somehow began to fall backwards and ended up hurting his knees! It was years ago, and he did not lose consciousness, I was more giving an example of falling with a baby in your arms and managing to cradle the baby/have someone grab the baby. The ER released him with a prescription for what was basically high dose tylenol. Days later he did have bruising and stiffness. We really need to see this video in order to understand if the Officer's lawyer is exaggerating.

 

[Jessthinkin]

First off, I truly hope there’s some surveillance video of this....

Secondly, it did occur to me that if what the off duty police officer’s lawyer said today (that his client had been struck in the back of the head prior to the shooting) is true, it could have ‘triggered’ him to react in a way he normally wouldn’t. Possible context: days earlier, another off duty LA area police officer was waiting for food at the counter of a fast food restaurant when a man approached from behind and shot him in the head.

There’s got to be more to this tragedy than what meets the eye at this point...

 

[BelleIsle]

As far as French's father trying to tell SS that his son was disabled, I can totally see this happening. Where are the witness statements? Is no one talking to the media?

Did it play out like: Officer is down, fires a couple of shots, French continues to come toward him/is on top of him somehow, Dad yells "Stop! He doesn't know what he did!", jumps in front of mom and son, SS isn't listening/is groggy at this point, complete flight or fight, fires five more shots?

Or, SS down, pulls gun, French is just standing there either having a meltdown or not, dad says, "My son is disabled! Please don't shoot!" SS goes berserk, shoots to kill as parents step in to shield French?

Maybe somewhere in between?

I do wonder if French's parents had ever seen their son act in a physically threatening manner before this incident, in pubic or private situations. Same goes for SS, would like to know his history as far as work related incidents, or possible PTSD.

 

[apricotpeach]

I guess we'll see what the video says. I can only imagine that the officer and his baby were on the ground and a huge man was coming at them in a menacing manner. But, that's just in my imagination at this point.

Forensics can give info on whether a shot was from above or below - anyone know if it would also provide clues whether the person (who was shot) is moving toward the gun or was standing still?

I've never really thought about Costco having security cameras (it seems so obvious now that they would) but even without video of the whole incident, there should other evidence like the 6 or 7 bullets and/or bullet wounds. Also, does Costco's security cameras include audio? I saw an article where the cop's lawyer says that the cop did say he is an officer before shooting - without audio, it might not be clear from a (silent) video what the officer is saying.

 

[RANCH]

As far as French's father trying to tell SS that his son was disabled, I can totally see this happening. Where are the witness statements? Is no one talking to the media?

Did it play out like: Officer is down, fires a couple of shots, French continues to come toward him/is on top of him somehow, Dad yells "Stop! He doesn't know what he did!", jumps in front of mom and son, SS isn't listening/is groggy at this point, complete flight or fight, fires five more shots?

Or, SS down, pulls gun, French is just standing there either having a meltdown or not, dad says, "My son is disabled! Please don't shoot!" SS goes berserk, shoots to kill as parents step in to shield French?

Maybe somewhere in between?

I do wonder if French's parents had ever seen their son act in a physically threatening manner before this incident, in pubic or private situations. Same goes for SS, would like to know his history as far as work related incidents, or possible PTSD.

Is "SS" the initials of the officer? I thought that his name hasn't been released yet?

 

[jjenny]

Is "SS" the initials of the officer? I thought that his name hasn't been released yet?

Yes, those are officer's initials. The name has been published in msm (according to sources) but not officially released by police.

 

[jjenny]

First off, I truly hope there’s some surveillance video of this....

Secondly, it did occur to me that if what the off duty police officer’s lawyer said today (that his client had been struck in the back of the head prior to the shooting) is true, it could have ‘triggered’ him to react in a way he normally wouldn’t. Possible context: days earlier, another off duty LA area police officer was waiting for food at the counter of a fast food restaurant when a man approached from behind and shot him in the head.

There’s got to be more to this tragedy than what meets the eye at this point...

There is a video from what has been reported.

 

[mickey2942]

Is "SS" the initials of the officer? I thought that his name hasn't been released yet?

Salvador Sanchez.

 

[RANCH]

Yes, those are officer's initials. The name has been published in msm (according to sources) but not officially released by police.

I think we need a link from MSM of the officers name.