Still Missing CA - Orson & Orrin West (3&4), California City, 21 Dec 2020 #2

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MissUnderstood said:
Are there any laws that make any persons giving false information to LE about their child’s disappearance being made to pay for any search related costs?
In similar stories as this I feel like I’m standing in front of my son, whose face is covered in chocolate, and he is telling me he didn’t eat any!!
Moo
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I'm pretty sure you can be charged with obstruction of justice. Also for filing a false police report.
 
rosesfromangels said:
Ever seen a Mom who has momentarily lost their kid at a department store? They are frantic and shouting.

amateur opinion and speculation
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Years ago, I took my 4 year old to the Smithsonian in DC for his birthday because he was obsessed with dinosaurs, also had my 5 year old daughter and my dad so it was one adult per kid. They have a children’s section where kids can hold live insects and touch fossils. My son was holding a hissing cockroach on my left and I turned to my right to make sure my daughter saw and that quick he disappeared. He was 6 inches away from me and was gone in 10 seconds. I was running and screaming his name and crying throughout the whole exhibit, my dad was carrying my daughter doing the same thing. I think I found 5 security guards and basically the entire section was closed in less than a minute. My son had just moved to the other side of the employee to give back the insect and I couldn’t see him. Not only was that the scariest day of my life but I’m sure hundreds of other people went home and told the story of the hysterical woman who lost her kid at the museum for 30 seconds. Missing children strikes you deep in the heart, there’s no other fear like it.
 
Chief Walker confirmed that the four other children of the adoptive parents are in protective custody.

“if there’s any kind of juvenile situation where theres been any kind of neglect or any kind of harm to any of the children, we automatically have to take all the other kids out of the house,” Walker said.Two missing boys in California City: Here’s what we know
 
Based on their previous silence and recent statements, I think the extended adopted family knew pretty immediately upon hearing of the missing persons report that something didn’t add up. Pure speculation for why they were totally silent, but I suspect that the report didn’t make sense to them at all right off the bat or at least raised very big questions.

The initial missing report had no names or photos. When initially approached by media, the father declined to give his name. Did the parents think this missing report could be done anonymously?

I hope that LE will soon reveal what their investigation has found about when O and O were last seen by someone other than the parents, when they were last photographed, and any insights gleaned from the interviews with the extended family. Perhaps revealing the assistance from the extended family will quiet those threats against them.
 
MoeInVA said:
Based on their previous silence and recent statements, I think the extended adopted family knew pretty immediately upon hearing of the missing persons report that something didn’t add up. Pure speculation for why they were totally silent, but I suspect that the report didn’t make sense to them at all right off the bat or at least raised very big questions.

The initial missing report had no names or photos. When initially approached by media, the father declined to give his name. Did the parents think this missing report could be done anonymously?

I hope that LE will soon reveal what their investigation has found about when O and O were last seen by someone other than the parents, when they were last photographed, and any insights gleaned from the interviews with the extended family. Perhaps revealing the assistance from the extended family will quiet those threats against them.
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I impatiently await the release of the 911 call.
 
Rachelj1 said:
Chief Walker confirmed that the four other children of the adoptive parents are in protective custody.

“if there’s any kind of juvenile situation where theres been any kind of neglect or any kind of harm to any of the children, we automatically have to take all the other kids out of the house,” Walker said.Two missing boys in California City: Here’s what we know
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In all fairness, this is misleading for several reasons.

One, the question posed to the Chief was not specifically about this case. The reporter begins by stating that there are a lot of missing person's cases in Bankersfield where children are reported missing and the other kids aren't taken away and he asks what circumstances have to be in play for the other children of the house to be in protective custody rather than custody of their parents.

Secondly, your quote is missing the first word of the Chief's response which is "GENERALLY." (Followed by the word "IF")

Lastly, there was a follow-up question to which he answered, "No, I'm not saying there was abuse at all, I'm saying the kids are missing." 12:07 mark in the link below.

https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=677866299765472
 
rosesfromangels said:
Ever seen a Mom who has momentarily lost their kid at a department store? They are frantic and shouting.

amateur opinion and speculation
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It happened to me once. My 2 1/2 yr old son got in the elevator, doors closed before I could get in with the stroller. I absolutely panicked! Fortunately another shopper stayed at the elevator while I ran up the escalator, screaming his name, and found him with a salesperson. She said he calmly walked off the elevator. It took me almost a week to calm down.
 
PommyMommy said:
In all fairness, this is misleading for several reasons.

One, the question posed to the Chief was not specifically about this case. The reporter begins by stating that there are a lot of missing person's cases in Bankersfield where children are reported missing and the other kids aren't taken away and he asks what circumstances have to be in play for the other children of the house to be in protective custody rather than custody of their parents.

Secondly, your quote is missing the first word of the Chief's response which is "GENERALLY." (Followed by the word "IF")

Lastly, there was a follow-up question to which he answered, "No, I'm not saying there was abuse at all, I'm saying the kids are missing." 12:07 mark in the link below.

https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=677866299765472
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Chief of Police in California City gives update on two missing boys; suspects foul play | KGET 17

IMO he’s making it pretty clear what he thinks . He’s being careful.
 
When I worked in retail, we were instructed never to call out a missing child's name or say it over the paging system. If there's a chance of foul play, you don't want to reveal any information (such as a child's name, nickname, etc.) that would aid an abductor. When a parent lost sight of their child, a "code" was announced to all employees so that we knew to guard exits & be on high alert until we got the all clear.

That aside, the more panicked I am, the quieter I become; screaming isn't the only indicator of fear. So, for me, there's no way to accurately assign meaning to the parents' reactions without knowing the rest of the circumstances of the boys' disappearance. JMO.
 
I have a few things that bother me about this case...forgive me if there are answers to my questions in previous posts...

1. Neighbors say they have never seen any children at this home. They supposedly moved in 3 to 4 months ago? So, none of the neighbors have ever seen any kids ...and they have 6 adopted children?

3. The day the 2 toddlers were reported missing, the other 4 were at the grandparents? How long had they been with grandparents? I would hope that the other 4 children have been questioned and LE has a realistic idea of when the two missing toddlers were actually last seen.

4. How does bio mom know where the children live if they have been adopted and no longer in foster care? I would assume this is a security issue? I am not an expert in this field, so I am honestly curious.

5. Bio mom, in the news interview, states that the adoptive family would not allow her to see the children. Was this a court ordered mandate that bio parent was allowed to see the adopted children?

6. Are all 6 children adopted and from same bio mom?

It is very unsettling to not observe a sense of urgency or panic with the adoptive parents. These two missing toddlers are not just a "one weekend foster visit"....this couple adopted them! Perhaps it is because this is days later and they have been on sedatives to help cope with what is going on...benefit of the doubt....but still unsettling.
 
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bleuboy said:
That's true I have really been hysterical in Primark once and everyone stopped what they were doing. Out popped son from inside a clothes rail. It will be telling if they review cctv footage of day 20 mins before the 911 call to see if the parents were running around outside, if the boys supposedly went out the yard gate. I would be running and knocking on my neighbours homes to ask if they have seen them and to check their yards.
Getting in a car/van to look would be a later option, or while mum was looking round neighbours yards and dad was looking further.

I've got a sick feeling in my stomac.
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We lost my son once when he was 3 he was literally there one minute and nowhere to be seen or heard the next,the front door was closed but I called him and called him running around the house like a mad woman while my husband went outside knocking on the neighbours doors,my 17 year went straight to the field at the end of the cul de sac and my eldest took off on a run at a rate of knots down the road incase he had tried to reach his preschool 5 min away, I could be heard shouting his name begging him to come out from wherever he was,I can still feel the panic 5 yrs later.
It was probably less than 5 minutes in reality and then we heard the cheekiest giggle,he was hiding in the house behind 2 baskets of folded washing in the smallest space possible and I had gone by him at least 3 times,he was quiet as a mouse....the rest of us absolutely not!!!!
 
Campizi67 said:
I have a few things that bother me about this case...forgive me if there are answers to my questions in previous posts...

1. Neighbors say they have never seen any children at this home. They supposedly moved in 3 to 4 months ago? So, none of the neighbors have ever seen any kids ...and they have 6 adopted children?

6. Are all 6 children adopted and from same bio mom?
Click to expand...

They have two biological kids and four adopted. The adopted kiddos are from the same bio mom.
 
Campizi67 said:
I have a few things that bother me about this case...forgive me if there are answers to my questions in previous posts...

1. Neighbors say they have never seen any children at this home. They supposedly moved in 3 to 4 months ago? So, none of the neighbors have ever seen any kids ...and they have 6 adopted children?

3. They day the 2 toddlers were reported missing, the other 4 were at the grandparents? How long had they been with grandparents? I would hope that the other 4 children have been questioned and LE has a realistic idea of when the two missing toddlers were actually last seen.

4. How does bio mom know where the children live if they have been adopted and no longer in foster care? I would assume this is a security issue? I am not an expert in this field, so I am honestly curious.

5. Bio mom, in the news interview, states that the adoptive family would not allow her to see the children. Was this a court ordered mandate that bio parent was allowed to see the adopted children?

6. Are all 6 children adopted and from same bio mom?

It is very unsettling to not observe a sense of urgency or panic with the adoptive parents. These two missing toddlers are not just a "one weekend foster visit"....this couple adopted them! Perhaps it is because this is days later and they have been on sedatives to help cope with what is going on...benefit of the doubt....but still unsettling.
Click to expand...
bbm
Good post !

#4 is particularly interesting to me.
At first I thought it was an open adoption ?
If not --maybe TW and JW put photos up on their SM and the adoptive family found them ?

Re. the bolded : I highly doubt that.
And I didn't observe much panic or concern in the interview.
Imo.
 
GeorgiaRai said:
When I worked in retail, we were instructed never to call out a missing child's name or say it over the paging system. If there's a chance of foul play, you don't want to reveal any information (such as a child's name, nickname, etc.) that would aid an abductor. When a parent lost sight of their child, a "code" was announced to all employees so that we knew to guard exits & be on high alert until we got the all clear.

That aside, the more panicked I am, the quieter I become; screaming isn't the only indicator of fear. So, for me, there's no way to accurately assign meaning to the parents' reactions without knowing the rest of the circumstances of the boys' disappearance. JMO.
Click to expand...

I’m the same way. I freeze when I’m scared. My son was lost when he was 3, and I was not yelling and screaming, it was all I could do to move forward to look for him.
 
Campizi67 said:
I have a few things that bother me about this case...forgive me if there are answers to my questions in previous posts...

1. Neighbors say they have never seen any children at this home. They supposedly moved in 3 to 4 months ago? So, none of the neighbors have ever seen any kids ...and they have 6 adopted children?

3. They day the 2 toddlers were reported missing, the other 4 were at the grandparents? How long had they been with grandparents? I would hope that the other 4 children have been questioned and LE has a realistic idea of when the two missing toddlers were actually last seen.

4. How does bio mom know where the children live if they have been adopted and no longer in foster care? I would assume this is a security issue? I am not an expert in this field, so I am honestly curious.

5. Bio mom, in the news interview, states that the adoptive family would not allow her to see the children. Was this a court ordered mandate that bio parent was allowed to see the adopted children?

6. Are all 6 children adopted and from same bio mom?

It is very unsettling to not observe a sense of urgency or panic with the adoptive parents. These two missing toddlers are not just a "one weekend foster visit"....this couple adopted them! Perhaps it is because this is days later and they have been on sedatives to help cope with what is going on...benefit of the doubt....but still unsettling.
Click to expand...
From my understanding they were all there the 21st. The mother had wanted the 2 smallest boys to go outside Bc she was wrapping presents and didn’t want them to see . I’m assuming it’s Bc she was wrapping as “Santa “ presents . I don’t believe her story though .
 
LietKynes said:
bbm
Good post !

#4 is particularly interesting to me.
At first I thought it was an open adoption ?
If not --maybe TW and JW put photos up on their SM and the adoptive family found them ?

Re. the bolded : I highly doubt that.
And I didn't observe much panic or concern in the interview.
Imo.
Click to expand...


Thank you!

#4 If it were an open adoption, that would explain how she knew, if it was not, you may be right about SM, some people have no issue with putting such private details of their lives on SM.

Re. the bolded: I agree, sadly.
 
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