Still Missing CA - Orson & Orrin West (3&4), California City, 21 Dec 2020 #2

[MsBetsy]

Understood. If what you are saying is that somebody may have had an issue previously with Crime Stoppers and therefore that is the reason that they didn't use Crime Stoppers which all states and all cases I have followed have used?

And instead, used this other one that I have never seen it here on WS of years following cases?

Looking forward to learning more about this fabulous organization!

No, I'm not saying someone may have had an issue with Crime Stoppers.

Secret Witness might be a separate program, but I think they are still members of Crime Stoppers USA.

I don't know why LE decided to use them, apart from encouraging people to come forward who may want to remain anonymous. Imo

 

[Spartygirl]

Unlikely it is our boys but it is someone’s...so
sad. About a 3 hour drive from Cal city but I would imagine borders would be closed due to covid.

Oh WOW.
What are the chances though of stumbling across "TWO" burned bodies??
I mean, coming across ONE is bad enough, but TWO--and small ones. Hmmmmm
Hopefully LE has some idea of any travels that family members have made.
Firewood, firewood, firewood-- that word was repeated many times in their press release.

 

[ColoGirl]

In the police press conference video, toward the end, someone suggested the family van was seen “Sunday” driving back from somewhere. The officer suggested it was impounded but I think the reporter clarified that it was seen before it was impounded?

 

[Jo in Calif]

Ugh I hate to see small city police, with not much experience, botch cases with too much going on... they lose control. Flying drones, people standing around potential evidence and standing on tire tracks, breaking windows of the home with rocks — not good.

I don’t think this will end well, and I have a feeling the previous home could be a possible crime scene.

The other kids will be helpful if they are old enough? Has anyone heard?

They were on it the first night and by the second day FBI had been called in. I think they were on it.

Officials did confirm that a search warrant was issued Monday night at the house the boys were living in.

As of Tuesday night, the believed foster parents are at police headquarters being interviewed by multiple law enforcement agencies, including the FBI. Investigators are also running forensic exams on certain items that belong to the toddlers.

Search continues for missing boys Orrin and Orson West, reported missing Monday

 

[ColoGirl]

Firewood, firewood, firewood-- that word was repeated many times in their press release.

I think a lot of what the father said will be very telling... including his off remark of them being “rambunctious.”

 

[Jo in Calif]

"People keep asking me, Can we help? Can we help? Can we help?" Jon Walker, Police Chief for California City Police, said. "I'm not turning down any help from anyone. I'm very grateful that they want to come out and look for these kids."

Chief Walker, says right now police are waiting on the analysis results from the items that were taken from the house, the boys were last seen. Those household goods and electronic items are being analyzed in Bakersfield

More than 100 search for missing Cal City boys in desert near their house

 

[LietKynes]

Ugh I hate to see small city police, with not much experience, botch cases with too much going on... they lose control. Flying drones, people standing around potential evidence and standing on tire tracks, breaking windows of the home with rocks — not good.

I don’t think this will end well, and I have a feeling the previous home could be a possible crime scene.

The other kids will be helpful if they are old enough? Has anyone heard?

bbm
Good point, I wondered that as well !

IF LE spoke with them, I'd imagine they'll not be divulging that to the public.
But hoping this did happen -- as LE might have a better timeline as to when the boys were last seen by family outside of the adoptive parents !
Imo.

 

[Jo in Calif]

This is exactly what you don't want to do at a search.

CALIFORNIA CITY, Calif. (KBAK/KBFX) — "This process is just basically looking for anything. we don't even know if the boys were wearing shoes or socks at that time," H D, from California City, said. "For me I see a mound of sand that maybe looks new, I'm going to kick it over, I'm gonna' dig it up."

More than 100 search for missing Cal City boys in desert near their house

 

[MsMarple]

bbm
Good point, I wondered that as well !

IF LE spoke with them, I'd imagine they'll not be divulging that to the public.
But hoping this happened as LE might have a better timeline as to when the boys were last seen by family outside of the adoptive parents.
Imo.

I'd be surprised if the other kids haven't been interviewed by a forensic interviewer by now. Certainly the FBI would see to it IMO. I did wonder if that was one reason for removing the kids from the parents' custody - to be able to interview them before they were influenced by someone else. MOO.

 

[MsBetsy]

This is exactly what you don't want to do at a search.

CALIFORNIA CITY, Calif. (KBAK/KBFX) — "This process is just basically looking for anything. we don't even know if the boys were wearing shoes or socks at that time," H D, from California City, said. "For me I see a mound of sand that maybe looks new, I'm going to kick it over, I'm gonna' dig it up."

More than 100 search for missing Cal City boys in desert near their house

Yeah, if they discover disturbed earth or sand they should call police and let them deal with it. I doubt they will find anything that close to the home.

If investigators had evidence that led to that area they would likely be searching themselves. They definitely seemed to be interested in the house and property, though. I hope forensic tests reveal something useful.

 

[rosesfromangels]

Yeah, if the discover disturbed earth or sand they should call police and let them deal with it. I doubt they will find anything that close to the home.

If investigators had evidence that led to that area they would likely be searching themselves. They definitely seemed to be interested in the house and property, though. I hope forensic tests reveal something useful.

BBM - exactly. They are encouraging locals to search because it keeps them focused and *not* destructive.

Amateur opinion and speculation

 

[imstilla.grandma]

Ugh I hate to see small city police, with not much experience, botch cases with too much going on... they lose control. Flying drones, people standing around potential evidence and standing on tire tracks, breaking windows of the home with rocks — not good.

I don’t think this will end well, and I have a feeling the previous home could be a possible crime scene.

The other kids will be helpful if they are old enough? Has anyone heard?

I was looking at a Bakersfield map earlier and was looking at the terrain from there to California City. There seems to be a lot of open area along the way with a Waste Mgmt. center nearby. I mean I wouldn’t think about them taking remains elsewhere but after Gannon~ nothing surprises me too much more than what she did...

 

[imstilla.grandma]

Understood. If what you are saying is that somebody may have had an issue previously with Crime Stoppers and therefore that is the reason that they didn't use Crime Stoppers which all states and all cases I have followed have used?

And instead, used this other one that I have never seen it here on WS of years following cases?

Looking forward to learning more about this fabulous organization!

I did a search earlier of WS and found it often used. I was shocked when I found many of the posts made by myself. I never thought twice about it. Search all forums with keyword secret witness

Eta: here’s one from wayback in 2008 using the program
Found Deceased - NV - James Erwin, 50, Golconda, 23 Sept 2003 *Arrests*

 

[Peppery]

Thank you for that information! So if the neighbor did hear a jackhammer then it may have been to penetrate hard soil, which blows away my assumption that LE was using machinery to bust up concrete or brick. Which also negates the theory that the boys have been gone long enough to bury their bodies under some solid material. IF that's the case.

OTOH, why would LE need to penetrate hard, compacted ground? Wouldn't that mean the dirt hadn't been disturbed for quite a while, if ever? Apologies for being dirt ignorant!

And if LE required heavy equipment to potentially uncover something, wouldn’t that mean who ever covered it would also need heavy equipment? I’m sure the neighbors would have heard that as well. Moo

 

[MsMarple]

And if LE required heavy equipment to potentially uncover something, wouldn’t that mean who ever covered it would also need heavy equipment? I’m sure the neighbors would have heard that as well. Moo

Yep, good point. Sometimes I feel like a cat chasing its tail in this case. So much we don't know, so much that doesn't make sense...

 

[MoeInVA]

I'd be surprised if the other kids haven't been interviewed by a forensic interviewer by now. Certainly the FBI would see to it IMO. I did wonder if that was one reason for removing the kids from the parents' custody - to be able to interview them before they were influenced by someone else. MOO.

Agreed. MOO the other children were already interviewed and I hope they were very helpful.

Sadly I do have personal experience with a sort of similar situation where children were taken out of their home. In my experience in another state, the children were not allowed visits with each other or ANY family members (including the relatives who reported the concerns to CPS) until their forensic interviews were completed. In my situation, the children were older and it was not an ongoing missing persons situation and it took almost a month for those interviews to be completed. (Which was very frustrating and seemed punitive to the children. But certainly showed a dedication to preventing witness tampering!) Obviously in an ongoing missing children case and with younger kids, I would expect those interviews happened ASAP.

Interestingly, the older kids in my case didn’t know they had a forensic interview. They thought it was a therapy appointment. Not sure if that’s standard or unusual... JMO

 

[Bbybluz]

From reading the description, it sounds like an excellent program. I wonder if LE thinks there is someone who might be afraid to come forward for fear of retaliation by someone involved?

My thoughts exactly! I honestly can’t help feeling my heart break for the AP’s family members right now!! Well for all involved who love those handsome little boys!

I think about the Uncle who took photos of the nephews dear to him on his visit in 2019. The older nephews photos are available for viewing as well if looking. As a grandma I know my heart would be crushed!! Too many “could haves, should haves” perhaps. Then again IF the AP’s are innocent of some truly evil wrong doings unrelated to them?? UGH to see a loved one being assumed guilty before innocent has to be the hardest!!

I kinda like this Program being offered in times when people don’t trust easily as they/we use to.

 

[Lyanna]

Wonder why all the children weren’t on “vacation” with grandmother.

Just a thought, but Covid could be a possible excuse used? Not likely but you never know

Hope these little boys are found soon

 

[Bbybluz]

And if LE required heavy equipment to potentially uncover something, wouldn’t that mean who ever covered it would also need heavy equipment? I’m sure the neighbors would have heard that as well. Moo

pouring cement can be a rather quiet task. I wonder if the back garage had a new floor put in? Did anyone notice a new patio in the back yard?

 

[rosesfromangels]

pouring cement can be a rather quiet task. I wonder if the back garage had a new floor put in? Did anyone notice a new patio in the back yard?

Unless they are dumber than a box of rocks (aways a possibility), I speculate *if* they are responsible for harming and disposing of remains, it wouldn't be at their home. Based on what little I have heard that sounds credible, I speculate any remains (if there are any) would be in Bakersfield. I posted upthread where I think that would be.

Amateur opinion and speculation