Still Missing CA - Orson & Orrin West (3&4), California City, 21 Dec 2020 #3

[mickey2942]

Do we have a definite timeline of the last time these children were seen by anyone other than their parents? Covid complicates every thing. Because no one sees anyone any longer, and that is the new "norm".

 

[susiQ]

Do we have a definite timeline of the last time these children were seen by anyone other than their parents? Covid complicates every thing. Because no one sees anyone any longer, and that is the new "norm".

Yes, and unfortunately may have provided the circumstance to hide something nefarious for many months. JMHO

 

[imstilla.grandma]

Lucas is my inspiration to stay here when the cases get tough too. He stole my heart. I just sent my pup over the rainbow Bridge and I hope she ran straight into Lucas' arms.

I’m so very sorry. I smile when I see your pup giving sloppy kisses all over Lucas’s face. A happy pair they are.

 

[Jo in Calif]

Yes. So have I. I also wonder what first names were used in fostering documentation. Were these names changed in the adoption paperwork? Are fostering parents given birth certificates for identification and documentation? Were the names changed in the court system? Does application for name change need to be made in court? What authority does DHS have in the alteration of names, first or last? I’m ignorant as to this process.

After a baby is born, a birth certificate is issued. The original birth certificate will include specific information, such as the place and time of birth, the baby’s length and weight at birth, and the biological parents’ names. After a child is adopted, a new “amended birth certificate” will be issued. Instead of the biological parents’ names, the new birth certificate will have the names of the adoptive parents. The amended birth certificate will also include the child’s new name, if their name is being changed.

Amending a Birth Certificate After Adoption

 

[Knox]

I don't think they trafficked them. If they were getting subsidies (even $1000/mo per child). Those 2 boys were worth a lot more money alive and healthy over the next 15-16 years than they could have ever received from being trafficked.....at least I think they would have been.

Why can't they continue to receive money? Who would know they sold or gave the kids to someone? I've seen other posters cite cases where the kids had been gone for as long as ten years before the system caught up to the monsters.

We have pictures of the boys from Thanksgiving 2019. I've not seen a more recent verified citing, not stating this as fact. A family member (Grandma) may have seen them more recently.

From TG 2019 to the first CV19 shutdown in California was four months (March 20, 2020). Who saw the boys after the shutdown in March?

 

[Knox]

DBM-

 

[ChiCubs2016]

DBM

 

[mickey2942]

Why can't they continue to receive money? Who would know they sold or gave the kids to someone? I've seen other posters cite cases where the kids had been gone for as long as ten years before the system caught up to the monsters.

We have pictures of the boys from Thanksgiving 2019. I've not seen a more recent verified citing, not stating this as fact. A family member (Grandma) may have seen them more recently.

From TG 2019 to the first CV19 shutdown in California was four months (March 20, 2020). Who saw the boys after the shutdown in March?

The Father reported the children missing. Before Christmas. Why? Aside from the fact that they were indeed missing that day. But, what else could have prompted the missing children report? Was there a family activity planned with other people who would have asked where the children were?

Have the police been able to talk to the other children in the home? That may help with the timeline and finding the children.

 

[AgeofAquaruis]

The Father reported the children missing. Before Christmas. Why? Aside from the fact that they were indeed missing that day. But, what else could have prompted the missing children report? Was there a family activity planned with other people who would have asked where the children were?

Have the police been able to talk to the other children in the home? That may help with the timeline and finding the children.

I'm sure they have, they're in protective custody. Two kids missing, and the other four in protective custody. Cal City Sherrif doesn't know where AP are. I would think they think would be a thorn in LE side,and shouting out to MSM to get the word out. MOO

 

[fcavanaugh]

Where are the parents, TW & JW?
Are they laying low somewhere just chillin’ , in hiding, or??
Have they searched for their little boys since the 1st night they reported them missing after TW hit the corners of the neighborhood for 4 mins. in his van?? The LE are ok with members of the public searching for the boys on their own if they want to help, but supposedly told TW & JW not to search?? (Sorry, no one could tell me not to search for my 3 & 4 year old missing children, not even LE). Have they planned any vigils for Orrin and Orson?? Are they passing out missing flyers??
Their 3 & 4 year old children have vanished, possibly abducted, why no public plea via MSM for the boys safe return i.e, please don’t hurt Orrin and Orson, we ask that you do the right thing, call the authorities and let our children come home to their Family??

Rhetorical questions.

IMHO

 

[MsBetsy]

So frustrated! Caught up and still no answers. Not due to all of you wonderful posters. I appreciate everyone’s input, especially when I can’t keep up.

I looked at the video that is now allowed from AV, didn’t watch until the end. But.... the thing that stood out to me is that on the 19th, when they all went shopping together, only 4 children got into the van. I’m sure it’s been brought up already, but I can’t let go of it.I appreciate the fact that we don’t all react to stress the same, but we should have seen all six kiddos shuffled into the van.

I wish I had answers, but I’m only filled with the same questions that have been posted.

I pray that these beautiful boys are found soon!

The video was so blurry I couldn't tell whether the younger boys got into the van or not. All I could see was the four heads above the fence.

Also, after the four children get into the van the dad stays by the door for a few minutes. It's possible that the two younger boys are smaller so you can't see their heads above the fence. It looks like he bends down at one point so maybe he is helping them get in and buckling them up. I also can barely see the mom at all. Does anyone know what color top she was wearing? Did she have her head covered like in her interview?

The neighbor says TW gets in from the passenger side but I saw him enter through the drivers side before they left.

The tinted windows do seem strange. I don't see many like that where I live since I'm pretty sure it is against the law to have windows that dark.

 

[ForensicToxicologist]

I also can barely see the mom at all. Does anyone know what color top she was wearing? Did she have her head covered like in her interview?

Is there a different interview? The one I saw with the AP she didn’t have her head covered at all. She had black, flowy, wavy/curly hair. FTR I don’t care about a head covering. I’m just trying to figure out if I’ve missed an interview with the AP somewhere.

 

[MsBetsy]

Is there a different interview? The one I saw with the AP she didn’t have her head covered at all. She had black, flowy, wavy/curly hair. FTR I don’t care about a head covering. I’m just trying to figure out if I’ve missed an interview with the AP somewhere.

Oops, sorry, I thought I remembered her wearing a hoody but I must be remembering someone else in the video wearing a hood. Too late to edit.

Anyway, is her hair down in the surveillance video? I still can't spot her because it's so grainy. I can see the dad because he's dressed in black.

 

[ForensicToxicologist]

Oops, sorry, I thought I remembered her wearing a hoody but I must be remembering someone else in the video wearing a hood. Too late to edit.

Anyway, is her hair down in the surveillance video? I still can't spot her because it's so grainy. I can see the dad because he's dressed in black.

No worries, it happens. I just wanted to make sure I hadn’t missed something! I’ve only viewed the surveillance video on my phone but all I could see was a dark form. Couldn’t make out any details about outfit or appearance.

 

[rosesfromangels]

The video was so blurry I couldn't tell whether the younger boys got into the van or not. All I could see was the four heads above the fence.

Also, after the four children get into the van the dad stays by the door for a few minutes. It's possible that the two younger boys are smaller so you can't see their heads above the fence. It looks like he bends down at one point so maybe he is helping them get in and buckling them up. I also can barely see the mom nat all. Does anyone know what color top she was wearing? Did she have her head covered like in her interview?

The neighbor says TW gets in from the passenger side but I saw him enter through the drivers side before they left.

The tinted windows do seem strange. I don't see many like that where I live since I'm pretty sure it is against the law to have windows that dark.

The video is so dang weird. The way those kids are hustled in to the van looks like a hostage escape.

Weird. Very weird.

Amateur opinion and speculation

 

[MsBetsy]

No worries, it happens. I just wanted to make sure I hadn’t missed something! I’ve only viewed the surveillance video on my phone but all I could see was a dark form. Couldn’t make out any details about outfit or appearance.

No, you didn't miss anything. I was taking notes during the video and was not remembering correctly. I do remember they all looked very cold.

I'm just not convinced the boys definitely did not get in the van. If we can't see details like what they are wearing or whether the kids have hats on, it's possible the kids were just obscured behind the fence. Imo

 

[JC40]

"Rambunctious"

If you listen, watch or read the transcript of the interview the word "Rambunctious" is incongruent to the rest of his language. For the most part it is plain and simple albeit fractured and out of sequence in parts.
What is subjective definition of "rambunctious"? We all have a "subjective internal dictionary" For example, if i say the word "boy," this word may conjure up a different image to each individual. Some may think of a new born, some may think of a toddler some may think of our boys abroad in a war zone. We all have our own interpretation.

The interviewer should have asked him what he meant by saying this. It may have given us more insight to the family dynamics given his definition.
As i always say, "Words Don't Come From A Vacuum". Has he recently heard it on Tv, radio, music, read it or picked it up from someone else. This one word may have yielded a lot if we knew what he meant.

ETA:

I was chatting a few months back to my friend online about a "situation". I concluded by saying "somethings afoot". He replied hello "Sherlock". It was then i realised i was watching "Sherlock Holmes" earlier in the day, hence phrase, "something afoot" and that "words don't come from a vacuum"

 

[MadTing]

I honestly had no idea what the meaning of "Rambunctious" was until this case.

 

[k-mac]

I honestly had no idea what the meaning of "Rambunctious" was until this case.

rambunctious

synonyms: boisterous · unrestrained · irrepressible · exuberant · uproarious · rollicking · roisterous · rackety · noisy · loud · clamorous · unruly · disorderly · rowdy · badly behaved · riotous · undisciplined · ill-disciplined · unmanageable · uncontrollable · ungovernable · uncontrolled · obstreperous · disruptive · wild · rough · rumbustious · rampageous · robustious

It really is a very concerning word choice.
The above descriptions are not loving or kind. A man DESPERATE and HOSTILE imo.

It was so randomly eloquent in amongst his average to poor chopped up vocab.
I have never seen a single word used that is so alarming before.

Maybe mischiefess little monkeys, little dare devils etc. There are terms of endearment for neg things that still show love and support behind them.
That's what subliminally is off.

moo

 

[Laughing]

Yes. So have I. I also wonder what first names were used in fostering documentation. Were these names changed in the adoption paperwork? Are fostering parents given birth certificates for identification and documentation? Were the names changed in the court system? Does application for name change need to be made in court? What authority does DHS have in the alteration of names, first or last? I’m ignorant as to this process.

Yes, as @Jo in Calif says, the original birth certificate is amended as part of the adoption process. Generally on one page, the judge orders the Custodian of the Record (generally the Bureau of Vital Records or the states Department of Health) to amend the record with the child's name after adoption and the adoptive parent's name(s.)

No link, long ago I worked for Child Support Enforcement, my caseload was all kids in the Temporary Legal Custody of the state.

I saw many, many name changes, especially for younger children like these typically rambunctious guys.

No news overnight, darn it.