Still Missing CA - Orson & Orrin West (3&4), California City, 21 Dec 2020 #3

[AmandaReckonwith]

Lots of the neighbors were questioned and no one heard any yelling names outside.

I wonder why MSM isn't looking for neighbors to interview. They would get some interesting news.
Remember when they even went to the neighbors job to track him down in the Gannon case!

 

[Lusitana]

It bothers me a lot that they wanted the neighbors homes to be looked at but they never even knocked on their doors, not to look inside and not to ask for help to search for them.

They just contradict themselves so many times.

 

[AmandaReckonwith]

Was it ever stated what the boys were wearing when they disappeared?

Grey sweatpants and black sweatshirts.
122520.NCMEC

 

[Skillz]

I'm doubting they even have any recent pictures of the boys. The mom said she had them on her phone.

They could have coordinated with police on that first day to use current pictures. LE would have requested the most recent photos be used for the missing persons poster. Imo

I agree with you. I thought the same thing about LE wanting to use the most recent images of the boys. It wouldn’t be hard to access them from phones and/or family members.

 

[Knox]

I agree with you. I thought the same thing about LE wanting to use the most recent images of the boys. It wouldn’t be hard to access them from phones and/or family members.

Isn't that where the pictures in the missing poster came from, a family member's page? So would that mean those photo's were the best and only pictures of the boys available? If true, that's very telling IMO.

 

[PommyMommy]

JAN 11, 2021
Family of missing boys adds to reward totaling $80,000 | KMPH
[...]

Two uncles and grandparents are now contributing their own money to the reward.

[...]

Orson is described as 3 '0", 30-40 pounds, and was last seen wearing a black sweatshirt and gray sweatpants.

Orrin is described as 3' 0", 30-40 pounds, and was last seen wearing a black sweatshirt and gray sweatpants.

 

[imstilla.grandma]

JAN 11, 2021
Family of missing boys adds to reward totaling $80,000 | KMPH
[...]

Two uncles and grandparents are now contributing their own money to the reward.

[...]

Orson is described as 3 '0", 30-40 pounds, and was last seen wearing a black sweatshirt and gray sweatpants.

Orrin is described as 3' 0", 30-40 pounds, and was last seen wearing a black sweatshirt and gray sweatpants.

Ages 3 and 4. Same weight? Remember when your little ones were this small? They probably got into everything. Mine did. Likely, whatever they were doing - they were probably always together. Squabbling over the same toys? Probably. Pulling at mom’s shirt for attention? Making messes at meals. Cooking, laundry, cleaning, caring and loving. It had to be a full day’s work to care for these kids. Six of them? In over their heads?

 

[PommyMommy]

Ages 3 and 4. Same weight? Remember when your little ones were this small? They probably got into everything. Mine did. Likely, whatever they were doing - they were probably always together. Squabbling over the same toys? Probably. Pulling at mom’s shirt for attention? Making messes at meals. Cooking, laundry, cleaning, caring and loving. It had to be a full day’s work to care for these kids. Six of them? In over their heads?

Based on what we know, the only theory that I can make work is abuse/neglect. Orson and Orrin did not walk out of that yard. They were not abducted from that yard. Because they were never in that yard.

I would love to be wrong and I know there's much more information that we're not privy to. However, the statements and actions of the extended family speak volumes. MOO

P.S. Re Lucas' case, I think you mean Mashburn.

 

[cvaldez1975]

• Drowning is the leading cause of unintentional injury-related death among children ages 1 to 4. The majority of drownings and near-drownings occur in residential swimming pools and in open water sites. However, children can drown in as little as one inch of water.
  
  
• Each year, about 2,000 children ages 14 and under die as a result of a home injury. Unintentional home injury deaths to children are caused primarily by fire and burns, suffocation, drowning, firearms, falls, choking, and poisoning.
  default - Stanford Children's Health

* I remain fixated on the fireplace. What if no one was watching and the boys fell into the fireplace or were fatally injured by the fire somehow? Fire seems to be foremost in dad’s mind.

i think if a fire burning a body happened in that fireplace a dog would have hit on it. LE themselves would have hit on it. not to be graphic but burning a body would cause a lot of "grease" in the air ETA.. it would have stuck to the walls too. however, i do feel all stories that are a cover up have some modicum of the truth so i wouldnt doubt IF this is what we think it is, that a fire was involved somehow.

 

[susiQ]

Ages 3 and 4. Same weight? Remember when your little ones were this small? They probably got into everything. Mine did. Likely, whatever they were doing - they were probably always together. Squabbling over the same toys? Probably. Pulling at mom’s shirt for attention? Making messes at meals. Cooking, laundry, cleaning, caring and loving. It had to be a full day’s work to care for these kids. Six of them? In over their heads?

RBBM
I know a lot of couples with 5, 6 and even 7 children. None are in “over their heads.” The house may be a disaster at times and sometimes there’s chaos. What makes the difference is love. I don’t believe these children were loved. They were merely a source of income. So yes, I think this couple were in over their heads. They didn’t possess the love needed to deal with six children. Sad, but that’s how I feel.
MOO

 

[imstilla.grandma]

Based on what we know, the only theory that I can make work is abuse/neglect. Orson and Orrin did not walk out of that yard. They were not abducted from that yard. Because they were never in that yard.

I would love to be wrong and I know there's much more information that we're not privy to. However, the statements and actions of the extended family speak volumes. MOO

P.S. Re Lucas' case, I think you mean Mashburn.

Yes. Mashburn. It’s been awhile. Thank you. While he did manage to convince Glass to revel location of Lucas’ body - we will never know the true circumstances of his death. I really love this kid. He is absolutely the reason I remain close to WS. I can feel his spirit here. He and my brother keep me going when I feel discouraged. I sometimes feel like I’m wasting my time and everybody else’s by posting so often when I become invested. I don’t like to come here/go there. Heartbreaking...

I think many of you have that one very special kid/baby/teen/human that remains with you.

I most always push away the trafficking consideration. It does happen and we mustn’t forget this. The vast majority of missing children are not trafficked. Still, the longer the boys are missing, the more the idea pops in my head. I would not feel this way if there was one only child missing. But two at the very same moment. Vanishing into thin air. No! Only in dreams and movies. It doesn’t happen. I’m not referring to sex trafficking at all. No, maybe the AP received an offer they couldn’t/didn’t turn down. Someone who wanted children of their own and willing to pay. (My only holdout for a miracle) Whatever happened in Bakersfield to cause the family to skedaddle out of town might be where the investigation is focused. Ground zero. We’re discombobulated. LE knows what they’re doing. I’ve great confidence in our ‘Blue’. imo, they might be trying to build a “no body” investigation in case the boys aren’t found. Organized searches aren’t planned or encouraged. No press releases to state their community is in danger. No FBI kidnapping bulletin. Telling in itself. Where are the boys?

 

[nyvictoria]

I’d like to know if the boys were taken to a doctor in the last 6 months or so. Will HIPPA interfere with that being made known?

 

[cvaldez1975]

I’d like to know if the boys were taken to a doctor in the last 6 months or so. Will HIPPA interfere with that being made known?

i m sure detectives can get that info w a warrant but they may not be able to release any of that to the public until a later date.

 

[nyvictoria]

i m sure detectives can get that info w a warrant but they may not be able to release any of that to the public until a later date.

Thanks for answering. I’m good with LE getting that info. At that age, my kids were at the doctor, between various illnesses and regular checkups/immunizations, several times a year. I have a pretty good feeling Orrin and Orsin have not been to a doctor since the adoption was finalized.

 

[cvaldez1975]

Thanks for answering. I’m good with LE getting that info. At that age, my kids were at the doctor, between various illnesses and regular checkups/immunizations, several times a year. I have a pretty good feeling Orrin and Orsin have not been to a doctor since the adoption was finalized.

omg youre prob right but ugh i hate it.

 

[Peppery]

omg youre prob right but ugh i hate it.

And not only Orrin and Orson, but all 6 boys. I keep reading they are all under age 10. I only have 3 kids but there were times we were at the pediatrician or dentist or ER practically weekly. One kid gets sick, flu, stomach bug, cold, they all get sick, usually including the parents. They’re always wrestling and someone needs stitches, someone breaks a wrist (leg), someone gets bit by a tarantulas or scorpion, someone gets lice or poison ivy. The list is endless. And normal. I used to worry about all the bruises and scrapes my kids at at well child checkups until their ped told me she expected to see scraped knees and dirty bandaids. It means kids are being kids. She worried about the ones who didn’t have bruises from falling off their bike or skinned elbows from climbing trees. That family should have a very thick file at their pediatricians office imo

 

[PommyMommy]

I’d like to know if the boys were taken to a doctor in the last 6 months or so. Will HIPPA interfere with that being made known?

HIPAA permits disclosure upon request by law enforcement.

45 CFR § 164.512 - Uses and disclosures for which an authorization or opportunity to agree or object is not required. | CFR | US Law | LII / Legal Information Institute (cornell.edu)

 

[susiQ]

All I can say is, I’m not just a little disappointed in the local media. If freelancers can come up with an interview of a neighbour in Bakersfield why on earth can’t they do the same?? Maybe then we’d have something we can actually discuss?? MOO MOO MOO!!

 

[MoeInVA]

Thanks for answering. I’m good with LE getting that info. At that age, my kids were at the doctor, between various illnesses and regular checkups/immunizations, several times a year. I have a pretty good feeling Orrin and Orsin have not been to a doctor since the adoption was finalized.

I have had concerns about lack of medical care too given the matching rough estimates provided for height and weight and then the CA.gov posters which noted no dental X-rays and heights and weights that seem to be based on the latest records the government has. maybe the government just hasn’t updated the missing poster based on anything after the adoption or maybe there was no medical care after the adoption.
See CA.gov posters
Orson West
Orrin West

• For example, it lists 3.5 year old Orson as 2ft 5” (29 inches) and 40lbs.

For reference, my daughter measured 29.5 inches tall at her 1 year check up (and almost 22lbs). I was told that both her height and weight were 55th percentile for a 12 month old girl. Which I noted on my phone because like many parents, I jot that stuff down. 40lbs is over 95th percentile for a 3 year old, but the weight worries me a lot less than the height which would just be bizarre.

• It also lists 4 year old Orrin as 3ft tall like the missing report lists for both boys (which says approximately 3ft). 3ft is the average height of a 2.5 year old according to the CDC. So these seem like old and/or inaccurate figures.

See cdc chart of height by age:
https://www.cdc.gov/growthcharts/data/set2/chart-07.pdf

 

[nyvictoria]

And not only Orrin and Orson, but all 6 boys. I keep reading they are all under age 10. I only have 3 kids but there were times we were at the pediatrician or dentist or ER practically weekly. One kid gets sick, flu, stomach bug, cold, they all get sick, usually including the parents. They’re always wrestling and someone needs stitches, someone breaks a wrist (leg), someone gets bit by a tarantulas or scorpion, someone gets lice or poison ivy. The list is endless. And normal. I used to worry about all the bruises and scrapes my kids at at well child checkups until their ped told me she expected to see scraped knees and dirty bandaids. It means kids are being kids. She worried about the ones who didn’t have bruises from falling off their bike or skinned elbows from climbing trees. That family should have a very thick file at their pediatricians office imo

Absolutely! I’m glad the other children were removed. I hope they’re feeling safe and secure and talking a lot about their little brothers and their home life.

IMO the other children should not be returned without a thorough investigation and resolution of what happened to Orsin and Orrin. It seems like plain common sense but DCFS has dropped the ball in so many cases. I wish MSM were more on the ball here. They’ve been weirdly uninvolved in what should be a major news story in the area. More publicity will keep the public thinking about the boys and hopefully help prevent any missteps on the part of DCFS,