Still Missing CA - Orson & Orrin West (3&4), California City, 21 Dec 2020 #3

[Rachelj1]

1. Determining eligibility to adopt is based on a process of mutual assessment and preparation by the prospective adoptive parents and social worker or agency, called a home study. Most people are eligible to adopt, regardless of whether they are married or single, their age, income, or sexual orientation. | Who Can Adopt? - Child Welfare Information Gateway

2. I don't own my own home, or I live in an apartment. May I adopt?

YES. You don't have to own a house to give a home. You may rent or own as long as your home is safe and has enough room for family members. What is most important is the love, understanding and guidance you can offer a child. | Adoptions

3. This is regarding people speculating about if the parents got money for adopting Orrin & Orson.

Is there financial assistance provided once the adoption is final?

The Adoption Assistance Program can provide financial assistance and some medical coverage for many of today's waiting foster children. This assistance may continue until the child is age 18 or, in certain circumstances, age 21. | Adoptions | Adoption Assistance Program

Adoption Assistance Program

The Adoption Assistance Program (AAP) is an entitlement program to provide financial and medical coverage to facilitate the adoption of children who otherwise would remain in long-term foster care. Public Law 96-272 - the Adoption Assistance and Child Welfare Act of 1980 created federal incentives to encourage the adoption of special needs children. The California State Legislature created the Adoption Assistance Program with the intent to provide the security and stability of a permanent home through adoption. AAP eligible children may receive federally funded benefits or non-federally funded benefits per state guidelines. The request for AAP benefits, the eligibility determination, benefit negotiation and execution of the AAP agreement must be completed prior to the adoption finalization.

What are the AAP benefits that an AAP eligible child may receive?

• Monthly negotiated rate
• Medical coverage (Medicaid/Medi-Cal)
• Reimbursement of Nonrecurring adoption expenses (up to $400 per child per adoption)
• Payment for an eligible out of home placement
• Payment for eligible Wraparound services
• Benefits may continue in a subsequent adoption
• Continues regardless of the adoptive family’s state or country of residence
• If eligible, benefits may continue to age 21

What is the amount of the monthly financial AAP benefit?

The negotiated AAP benefits are based on the child’s needs and the circumstances of the family which may not exceed the rate the child would have received had they remained in foster care. The intent of AAP benefits is to assist adoptive parents with their child’s lifelong needs and not the short-term monetary needs that may occur during a crisis. If the child’s needs require a higher level of care and supervision, they may be eligible to receive a Special Care Increment (SCI) in addition to the AAP basic rate. A child who is developmentally delayed and eligible to receive California Regional Center services may receive the dual agency rate plus eligible supplemental rate.

So they get the monthly money for each boy, and would get a supplemental check on top of their monthly if the boys had any special needs. With Orrin and Orson that would be four separate checks for their four adopted children. The other two are their biological per the West family's official statement (Adoptive family of missing California City boys issues statement | KGET 17). I hope that answered some questions.

WOW... thank you for posting this !!!!

 

[Vae Victus]

WOW... thank you for posting this !!!!

Yw friend. I think I saw someone link a similar page a few threads ago but if people are browsing mobile or don't have a good extension that blocks ads some external sites might be hard to negotiate, so I thought it was easier to just post the plain text here.

 

[Rachelj1]

Yw friend. I think I saw someone link a similar page a few threads ago but if people are browsing mobile or don't have a good extension that blocks ads some external sites might be hard to negotiate, so I thought it was easier to just post the plain text here.

I think yours was great and explained everything really well.

 

[Bbybluz]

I hope that answered some questions

Yes definitely & thank you for posting the “simple” text to the link. Sometimes my smartphone isn’t so smart at following through on the blue connections.

 

[fcavanaugh]

Chief Walker has made it very clear he suspects foul play with regard to Orrin & Orson missing. And per the Chief, THE FBI and several other LE agencies are assisting his department in their investigation. It’s not uncommon these days for LE not to name any POI or suspect(s), until an arrest is made, or if they feel the public is in danger.
Since we are told very little by LE, I think it’s a good idea to look at LE’s actions to get a feel for where their investigation is primarily focused/leading them, as well as the behaviors of those last known to be with/see the victim(s), which in this case-the parents.
With all that said, the following is MOO.

Has LE been investigating this case as any of the following:
Random stranger abduction? NO.
O & O ran out backyard gate, and are lost somewhere in the desert? NO.
O & O ran out of backyard gate, and somehow got into a neighbor’s house unnoticed? NO.

What has LE done since Orrin & Orson were reported missing?
Confiscated the parent’s vehicle and their “tech”, digging in their backyard, executing search warrants on their home, carrying bags of evidence from the home, and running forensic testing on items found at the home, They’ve revealed the dogs didn’t track the boy’s scent anywhere outside of the home, neighbors report never seeing any children at the home-ever, and that the parents 4 other children were removed from their care and placed into protective custody, have been investigating in Bakersfield where the parents previously resided prior to their move to CC three months ago, and by now LE has viewed video surveillance from neighbor’s cameras, from the night in question-12/21/20, which doesn’t show boys playing on the backyard patio, nor parents frantically searching, running around their yard and neighborhood screaming their children’s names.

*IMO, the parents probably didn’t realize their neighbors have ring cameras and/or other types of outdoor surveillance cameras mounted on their homes, and like another astute WS’er suggested, TW likely drove the van around the neighborhood thinking LE would feel the hood to see if it was warm*

What have the parents done since they reported Orrin & Orson missing?
Have they at any time, including and since their 1st and only media appearance on 12/23/20, produced any recent photos of Orrin and Orson? NO. Pled for their babies, concerned for their welfare, and provided detailed descriptions of the boys and asked for the public’s help finding them? NO. Held a presser with LE to show a united front? NO. If they are shy, private people, there are other options to get the word out i.e., issue a public statement, appoint a Family spokesperson. Have they done either of those things? NO. Random members of the public have been out searching for THEIR babies, have they been seen out searching for their babies? NO. Have they been seen handing out missing flyers? NO. Are they organizing public searches? NO. Have they had any vigils for Orrin and Orson? NO. Are any extended family members coming forward and defending the parents? NO.

*If their babies were truly missing, they should/would not care what the public thinks about them or what’s being said on social media. These are their children, whose lives hang in the balance, and time is of the essence. Nothing else would or should matter except finding their babies*

So with all of the above taken into consideration, what does it say to me? It speaks volumes that LE didn’t buy the parent’s story from day one, they know the boys are “gone”, most likely deceased (I hate typing that), and TW & JW are squarely in their sights as suspects #1/2.

IMO, LE are busy building their case, and in order to protect their investigation, will not be disclosing details of their investigation to the public, which is SOP. Patience is required while LE works on putting all the pieces of the puzzle together. In some cases it takes longer for the truth to be revealed and especially so, if this turns out to be a no body(s) case. There are many moving parts here, the parent’s aren’t talking, and have possibly lawyered up. LE *might* get to the truth a little faster if one parent decides to turn/flip on the other, and who knows, the closer LE gets to the truth, it may happen, if for no other reason-self preservation.

I’d love to be wrong, and do still believe in miracles, but all the red flags are just too hard for me to ignore.

Hoping and praying Orrin and Orson are found soon.

All of the above is IMHOO.

ETA: added words and punctuation.

 

[susiQ]

Chief Walker has made it very clear he suspects foul play with regard to Orrin & Orson missing. And per the Chief, THE FBI and several other LE agencies are assisting his department in their investigation. It’s not uncommon these days for LE not to name any POI or suspect(s), until an arrest is made, or if they feel the public is in danger.
Since we are told very little by LE, I think it’s a good idea to look at LE’s actions to get a feel for where their investigation is primarily focused/leading them, as well as the behaviors of those last known to be with/see the victim(s), which in this case, is the parents.
With that said, the following is all MOO.

Has LE been investigating this case as any of the following:
Random stranger abduction? NO.
O & O ran out of backyard and got lost somewhere in the desert? NO.
O & O ran out of backyard and somehow got into a neighbor’s house unnoticed? NO.

What has LE done since Orrin & Orson were reported missing?
Confiscated the parent’s vehicle and their “tech”, been digging in their backyard, executing search warrants on their home, carrying bags of evidence from the home, and running forensic testing on items found at the home, have been investigating in Bakersfield where the parents previously resided prior to their move to CC three months ago. They’ve revealed the dogs didn’t track the boy’s scent anywhere outside of the home, and that neighbors report never seeing any children at the home-ever. Also, by now LE has viewed video surveillance from neighbor’s cameras, from the night in question-12/21/20, which doesn’t show boys playing on the backyard patio, nor parents frantically searching, running around their yard and neighborhood screaming their children’s names.

*IMO, the parents probably didn’t realize their neighbors have ring cameras and/or other types of outdoor surveillance cameras mounted on their homes, and like another astute WS’er suggested, TW likely drove the van around the neighborhood thinking LE would feel the hood to see if it was warm*

What have the parents done since they reported Orrin & Orson missing?
Have they at any time, including and since their 1st and only media appearance on 12/23/20, produced any recent photos of Orrin and Orson? NO. Pled for their babies, concerned for their welfare, and provided detailed descriptions of the boys and asked for the public’s help finding them? NO. Held a presser with LE to show a united front? NO. If they are shy, private people, there are other options to get the word out i.e., issue a public statement, appoint a Family spokesperson. Have they done either of those things? NO. Random members of the public have been out searching for THEIR babies, have they been seen out searching for their babies? NO. Have they been seen handing out missing flyers? NO. Are they organizing public searches? NO. Have they had any vigils for Orrin and Orson? NO.

*If their babies were truly missing, they should/would not care what the public thinks about them or what’s being said on social media. These are their children, whose lives hang in the balance, and time is of the essence. Nothing else would or should matter except finding their babies*

So with all of the above taken into consideration, what does it say to me? It speaks volumes that LE didn’t buy the parent’s story from day one, they know the boys are “gone”, most likely deceased (I hate typing that), and TW & JW are squarely in their sights as suspects #1/2.

IMO, LE are busy building their case, and in order to protect their investigation, will not be disclosing details of their investigation to the public, which is SOP. Patience is required while LE works on putting all the pieces of the puzzle together. In some cases it takes longer for the truth to be revealed and especially so, if this turns out to be a no body(s) case. There are many moving parts here, the parent’s aren’t talking, and have possibly lawyered up. LE *might* get to the truth a little faster if one parent decides to turn/flip on the other, and who knows, the closer LE gets to the truth, it may happen, if for no other reason-self preservation.

I’d love to be wrong, and do still believe in miracles, but all the red flags are just too hard for me to ignore.

Hoping and praying Orrin and Orson are found soon.

All of the above is IMHOO.

Wow!! That pretty much sums it up @fcavanaugh doesn’t it! Didn’t look good right from the gitgo. MOO.

 

[Rachelj1]

Chief Walker has made it very clear he suspects foul play with regard to Orrin & Orson missing. And per the Chief, THE FBI and several other LE agencies are assisting his department in their investigation. It’s not uncommon these days for LE not to name any POI or suspect(s), until an arrest is made, or if they feel the public is in danger.
Since we are told very little by LE, I think it’s a good idea to look at LE’s actions to get a feel for where their investigation is primarily focused/leading them, as well as the behaviors of those last known to be with/see the victim(s), which in this case, is the parents.
With that said, the following is all MOO.

Has LE been investigating this case as any of the following:
Random stranger abduction? NO.
O & O ran out of backyard and got lost somewhere in the desert? NO.
O & O ran out of backyard and somehow got into a neighbor’s house unnoticed? NO.

What has LE done since Orrin & Orson were reported missing?
Confiscated the parent’s vehicle and their “tech”, digging in their backyard, executing search warrants on their home, carrying bags of evidence from the home, and running forensic testing on items found at the home, have been investigating in Bakersfield where the parents previously resided prior to their move to CC three months ago. They’ve revealed the dogs didn’t track the boy’s scent anywhere outside of the home, and that neighbors report never seeing any children at the home-ever. Also, by now LE has viewed video surveillance from neighbor’s cameras, from the night in question-12/21/20, which doesn’t show boys playing on the backyard patio, nor parents frantically searching, running around their yard and neighborhood screaming their children’s names.

*IMO, the parents probably didn’t realize their neighbors have ring cameras and/or other types of outdoor surveillance cameras mounted on their homes, and like another astute WS’er suggested, TW likely drove the van around the neighborhood thinking LE would feel the hood to see if it was warm*

What have the parents done since they reported Orrin & Orson missing?
Have they at any time, including and since their 1st and only media appearance on 12/23/20, produced any recent photos of Orrin and Orson? NO. Pled for their babies, concerned for their welfare, and provided detailed descriptions of the boys and asked for the public’s help finding them? NO. Held a presser with LE to show a united front? NO. If they are shy, private people, there are other options to get the word out i.e., issue a public statement, appoint a Family spokesperson. Have they done either of those things? NO. Random members of the public have been out searching for THEIR babies, have they been seen out searching for their babies? NO. Have they been seen handing out missing flyers? NO. Are they organizing public searches? NO. Have they had any vigils for Orrin and Orson? NO.

*If their babies were truly missing, they should/would not care what the public thinks about them or what’s being said on social media. These are their children, whose lives hang in the balance, and time is of the essence. Nothing else would or should matter except finding their babies*

So with all of the above taken into consideration, what does it say to me? It speaks volumes that LE didn’t buy the parent’s story from day one, they know the boys are “gone”, most likely deceased (I hate typing that), and TW & JW are squarely in their sights as suspects #1/2.

IMO, LE are busy building their case, and in order to protect their investigation, will not be disclosing details of their investigation to the public, which is SOP. Patience is required while LE works on putting all the pieces of the puzzle together. In some cases it takes longer for the truth to be revealed and especially so, if this turns out to be a no body(s) case. There are many moving parts here, the parent’s aren’t talking, and have possibly lawyered up. LE *might* get to the truth a little faster if one parent decides to turn/flip on the other, and who knows, the closer LE gets to the truth, it may happen, if for no other reason-self preservation.

I’d love to be wrong, and do still believe in miracles, but all the red flags are just too hard for me to ignore.

Hoping and praying Orrin and Orson are found soon.

All of the above is IMHOO.

I think you are SPOT ON!!!!

 

[Rachelj1]

Do you think it's significantly higher benefits after adopting compared to fostering? From what's posted at the very top of this page... I can't tell.

I have no idea to be honest .

 

[Kiranerys]

It's cases like this one that make me appreciate WS even more than I already do.
There are *so* many rumors and unverified sightings, sooth sayers, and other assortment of "experts" putting information out on this case. We only rely on main stream media reporting and LE statements, thank heavens.
SO much noise and distraction.

That being said, I absolutely believe LE is making excellent progress in pushing through the noise, dismissing the grandstanders, and focusing on finding these children.

Amateur opinion and speculation

Agreed. I think the social media rumours out there are the most out of control I have seen yet,even worse than the cupcake stuff. I think its because there is literally nothing from reliable sources and not even anyone who knows the family is talking!.

 

[Ontario Mom]

I’d love to be wrong, and do still believe in miracles, but all the red flags are just too hard for me to ignore.

Hoping and praying Orrin and Orson are found soon.

All of the above is IMHOO.

RSBM

I think you may be entirely correct.
Watching what LE does, is often a louder message than what they say (or don't say).
Time will tell, for sure.

jmo

 

[MsBetsy]

Do you think it's significantly higher benefits after adopting compared to fostering? From what's posted at the very top of this page... I can't tell.

No, as far as I know the payments cannot exceed the amount a child would receive in Foster Care. It would also depend on whether or not the child is eligible or meets the criteria for Special Needs. Imo

 

[Rachelj1]

I feel like the boys aren’t getting enough national coverage either, because I’m on the East Coast and there is absolutely no news of them at all.

 

[imstilla.grandma]

So what do you all think was their motivation to adopt?

*Has anyone read when the boys were actually placed in Foster care with the AP? It pays better than babysitting for extra income to supplement. I believe there are many people who have small children and unable to work would say “what’s one more. I’m here anyway.”

Topic No. 607 Adoption Credit and Adoption Assistance Programs | Internal Revenue Service

When adopting through foster care families may qualify for stipends from the state, with the provision that the money goes toward the care of the children they are fostering to adopt. Qualified expenses can include clothing, toys, food, daycare and medical expenses. Once the adoption is finalized and your child is no longer in foster care, however, the income from providing foster care is also finalized.
Do Adoptive Parents Receive Money?

American Adoptions - Adoption Grants: Find the Funds for Your Adoption

 

[Vae Victus]

Do you think it's significantly higher benefits after adopting compared to fostering? From what's posted at the very top of this page... I can't tell.

No.

"The negotiated AAP benefits are based on the child’s needs and the circumstances of the family which may not exceed the rate the child would have received had they remained in foster care." | Adoption Assistance Program

 

[Frodosdojo]

Chief Walker has made it very clear he suspects foul play with regard to Orrin & Orson missing. And per the Chief, THE FBI and several other LE agencies are assisting his department in their investigation. It’s not uncommon these days for LE not to name any POI or suspect(s), until an arrest is made, or if they feel the public is in danger.
Since we are told very little by LE, I think it’s a good idea to look at LE’s actions to get a feel for where their investigation is primarily focused/leading them, as well as the behaviors of those last known to be with/see the victim(s), which in this case-the parents.
With all that said, the following is MOO.

Has LE been investigating this case as any of the following:
Random stranger abduction? NO.
O & O ran out backyard gate, and are lost somewhere in the desert? NO.
O & O ran out of backyard gate, and somehow got into a neighbor’s house unnoticed? NO.

What has LE done since Orrin & Orson were reported missing?
Confiscated the parent’s vehicle and their “tech”, digging in their backyard, executing search warrants on their home, carrying bags of evidence from the home, and running forensic testing on items found at the home, They’ve revealed the dogs didn’t track the boy’s scent anywhere outside of the home, neighbors report never seeing any children at the home-ever, and that the parents 4 other children were removed from their care and placed into protective custody, have been investigating in Bakersfield where the parents previously resided prior to their move to CC three months ago, and by now LE has viewed video surveillance from neighbor’s cameras, from the night in question-12/21/20, which doesn’t show boys playing on the backyard patio, nor parents frantically searching, running around their yard and neighborhood screaming their children’s names.

*IMO, the parents probably didn’t realize their neighbors have ring cameras and/or other types of outdoor surveillance cameras mounted on their homes, and like another astute WS’er suggested, TW likely drove the van around the neighborhood thinking LE would feel the hood to see if it was warm*

What have the parents done since they reported Orrin & Orson missing?
Have they at any time, including and since their 1st and only media appearance on 12/23/20, produced any recent photos of Orrin and Orson? NO. Pled for their babies, concerned for their welfare, and provided detailed descriptions of the boys and asked for the public’s help finding them? NO. Held a presser with LE to show a united front? NO. If they are shy, private people, there are other options to get the word out i.e., issue a public statement, appoint a Family spokesperson. Have they done either of those things? NO. Random members of the public have been out searching for THEIR babies, have they been seen out searching for their babies? NO. Have they been seen handing out missing flyers? NO. Are they organizing public searches? NO. Have they had any vigils for Orrin and Orson? NO. Are any extended family members coming forward and defending the parents? NO.

*If their babies were truly missing, they should/would not care what the public thinks about them or what’s being said on social media. These are their children, whose lives hang in the balance, and time is of the essence. Nothing else would or should matter except finding their babies*

So with all of the above taken into consideration, what does it say to me? It speaks volumes that LE didn’t buy the parent’s story from day one, they know the boys are “gone”, most likely deceased (I hate typing that), and TW & JW are squarely in their sights as suspects #1/2.

IMO, LE are busy building their case, and in order to protect their investigation, will not be disclosing details of their investigation to the public, which is SOP. Patience is required while LE works on putting all the pieces of the puzzle together. In some cases it takes longer for the truth to be revealed and especially so, if this turns out to be a no body(s) case. There are many moving parts here, the parent’s aren’t talking, and have possibly lawyered up. LE *might* get to the truth a little faster if one parent decides to turn/flip on the other, and who knows, the closer LE gets to the truth, it may happen, if for no other reason-self preservation.

I’d love to be wrong, and do still believe in miracles, but all the red flags are just too hard for me to ignore.

Hoping and praying Orrin and Orson are found soon.

All of the above is IMHOO.

ETA: added words and punctuation.

MOO - I think everything you wrote is spot on. It is heartbreaking that these babies may have met with foul play. They deserved better.

 

[imstilla.grandma]

I wonder why this station only uploaded this vid yesterday.

 

[Frodosdojo]

I wonder why this station only uploaded this vid yesterday.

I wondered, too ! I think it was just a fluke or error.

 

[BoyThatsWeird]

Hi all, any reactions to AP's response when reporters asked to describe the boys? Response:
Dad:"Very playful. Very rambunctious. And they do love to wrestle, they do love to kind of get rough with each other"
Mom: "They're kids"
Dad: "They're kids. Of course they'd love to go out but we would make sure during the pandemic we wasn't trying to go, you know, out here."

To me, the mom jumped in with her response, almost to cut off the direction the father was going. Almost as she didn't like his response and where it was headed. I just find their responses odd. I have kids who do like to rough-house with one another but it definitely wouldn't be my first response when asked to describe them.
Also, if asked to describe my children, I wouldn't think to tell the media of how we've been staying inside lately due to the pandemic. It doesn't describe the children at all. Almost like he had a piece of info (the fact they've been inside since the pandemic, which happens to include the entirety of the time they've lived in this house) that he wanted to fit into the interview and decided to throw it in during an answer about describing his kids.

 

[Rachelj1]

Hi all, any reactions to AP's response when reporters asked to describe the boys? Response:
Dad:"Very playful. Very rambunctious. And they do love to wrestle, they do love to kind of get rough with each other"
Mom: "They're kids"
Dad: "They're kids. Of course they'd love to go out but we would make sure during the pandemic we wasn't trying to go, you know, out here."

To me, the mom jumped in with her response, almost to cut off the direction the father was going. Almost as she didn't like his response and where it was headed. I just find their responses odd. I have kids who do like to rough-house with one another but it definitely wouldn't be my first response when asked to describe them.
Also, if asked to describe my children, I wouldn't think to tell the media of how we've been staying inside lately due to the pandemic. It doesn't describe the children at all. Almost like he had a piece of info (the fact they've been inside since the pandemic, which happens to include the entirety of the time they've lived in this house) that he wanted to fit into the interview and decided to throw it in during an answer about describing his kids.

I agree with you . I just noticed something thar hadn’t noticed before, but did you catch he is almost making an accusation that one of his neighbors has the boys? Or the boys are in one of the neighboring homes?

 

[Emb72]

Do you think it's significantly higher benefits after adopting compared to fostering? From what's posted at the very top of this page... I can't tell.

Usually fostering, you are paid more than adopting through the state. Atleast in Washington state..