Still Missing CA - Orson & Orrin West (3&4), California City, 21 Dec 2020 #3

[fcavanaugh]

See this worries me ? How crazy is this ?

Hi @Rachelj1, One thing-I posted the snippet from the article before watching the Chief’s video interview. The KGET article misquoted the Chief and it was too late to go back and edit my post.

See elliefant’s post above-Amanda noted the correction:
the Chief said, the dogs didn’t get any “hits”, not “kids”.

Sorry for the confusion.

IMHO

ETA: edited for clarity, punctuation.

 

[Rachelj1]

Hi @Rachelj1, One thing-I posted the snippet from the article before watching the Chief’s video interview- the KGET article misquoted the Chief and it was too late to go back and edit my post, see elliefant’s post above-Amanda noted the correction (the Chief said “hits”, not “kids”).

IMHO

Hi! Yes someone pointed that out too! So no hits I’m assuming meant from the cadaver dogs . I don’t think O and O were ever there . I think the other 4 were . I think he wanted to go “ off grid” like he said , Bc something already happened with those sweet boys . I think calling the police for a missing person resport was well thought out .
Moo

 

[fcavanaugh]

Hi! Yes someone pointed that out too! So no hits I’m assuming meant from the cadaver dogs . I don’t think O and O were ever there . I think the other 4 were . I think he wanted to go “ off grid” like he said , Bc something already happened with those sweet boys . I think calling the police for a missing person resport was well thought out .
Moo

I agree Rachel.

 

[Megnut]

Exactly !!! I’m sure they had cadaver and search and rescue right ?
Thank you too btw

"We've looked everywhere possible in a house we could possibly look,” Walker said. “We brought in search dogs, cadaver dogs, any dog you can think of has been in that house and has not had any kids anywhere in the house.”

Two missing boys: Chief of Police in California City gives new information on investigation

 

[Rachelj1]

I agree Rachel.

Those poor boys . They will get the justice they deserve ! The public has to stay strong too !
Moo

 

[Rachelj1]

"We've looked everywhere possible in a house we could possibly look,” Walker said. “We brought in search dogs, cadaver dogs, any dog you can think of has been in that house and has not had any kids anywhere in the house.”

Two missing boys: Chief of Police in California City gives new information on investigation

Thank you, yea I think he meant no hits whatsoever for those 2 boys .
Did they have 6 males only ?

 

[Rachelj1]

(Searching) "talked to a gentleman on the other side over there and he didn't see "
Has this "gentleman" come forward publicly to confirm he spoke to him?

I was wondering that also !

 

[K9Enzo]

Exactly !!! I’m sure they had cadaver and search and rescue right ?
Thank you too btw

I agree with you.

IMO, they most likely used live find dogs (air scent and trailing dogs) hoping to establish direction of travel of these boys away from the house. They also used HRD (human remains detection) dogs in the home and I'm sure on the property. When the Chief said and any dog you can think of - I believe that's what he means. There were several trained disciplines utilized.

 

[Rachelj1]

I agree with you.

IMO, they most likely used live find dogs (air scent and trailing dogs) hoping to establish direction of travel of these boys away from the house. They also used HRD (human remains detection) dogs in the home and I'm sure on the property. When the Chief said and any dog you can think of - I believe that's what he means. There were several trained disciplines utilized.

And there is no way that the use of all those dogs all missed any hits . I’m a big believer in those dogs . I think like Amanda mentioned too earlier that they might of been drilling to see if the dogs could get a hit .

Im not sure how to tag someone yet ?
Moo

 

[Rachelj1]

Oh thank goodness, now we can discuss. <modsnip: Discussing moderation on the thread is not allowed>
Maybe someone will be kind enough to transcribe?

Can someone help me understand this please ?? LOL

 

[ZZ Topps]

Lots of space in the Mojave. Bakersfield. But, I thought that there was a lot of space in Idaho/Montana/Yellowstone National Park, and the missing children from Idaho were found right in the backyard of their Mother's new spouse.

So, maybe the police in Bakersfield will find something.

Yes, these two APs do not seem to me, like the sharpest of individuals, so I'm sure if they are guilty of anything it will come out. Plus, the more culprits involved in a crime, the harder it is to not slip up. Again, this is assuming they are guilty of anything and just my opinion.

 

[K9Enzo]

And there is no way that the use of all those dogs all missed any hits . I’m a big believer in those dogs . I think like Amanda mentioned too earlier that they might of been drilling to see if the dogs could get a hit .

Im not sure how to tag someone yet ?
Moo

Good observation. They might have drilled holes in areas of interest to aid in the release of target orders to assist the dogs. I have seen this done with a missing fishermen (ice fishing) who did in fact go through the ice and was deceased. IMO

 

[ZZ Topps]

bbm
Thanks, @Frodosdojo .

*Sigh*
It's looking very grim for Orrin and Orson.
Just how long have they been gone ?

If I were LE, I'd be asking the kids about special events, like-- were your siblings with you at T-giving ?
Because little minds will start to forget when exactly they saw the youngest two!
Also there could be an element of threats or fear for the older siblings.
Sometimes children are instructed not to talk about something...so they don't.
So sad all around.
Imo.

Yes, I would have to imagine they've questioned the siblings as much as possible understanding they too are small children and you don't want to grill them like you would an adult. But I would think it very difficult for them to not be honest when asked by police no matter how much "coaching" they may have been given, however, I just don't know how much weight you could give to statements provided by young children. Regardless, I think their statements, along with grandmas' hold alot of the keys to this mystery and I have to beleive it will come out sooner or later....just too many 'spoons in the pot'. Just my opinion.

 

[Rachelj1]

Good observation. They might have drilled holes in areas of interest to aid in the release of target orders to assist the dogs. I have seen this done with a missing fishermen (ice fishing) who did in fact go through the ice and was deceased. IMO

It just seems that they know their suspects ( even though they have not named anyone ) we all know they don’t normally tell the public until the end . I think they are honestly having a really hard time figuring out where the boys are .
Moo

 

[MsBetsy]

Hi! Yes someone pointed that out too! So no hits I’m assuming meant from the cadaver dogs . I don’t think O and O were ever there . I think the other 4 were . I think he wanted to go “ off grid” like he said , Bc something already happened with those sweet boys . I think calling the police for a missing person resport was well thought out .
Moo

Cadaver dogs will "alert" to human remains, while search dogs follow a scent. LE said the boys scent never left the house, so it sounds like search dogs did pick up their scent inside the home, but no further than that. Cadaver dogs did not alert to human remains at the residence. I'm not sure why the woman kept asking about bodies being under the house.

He also said there are witnesses who said they saw the boys in the months and days before they were reported missing, but could not name a specific day they were last seen by anyone besides the parents.

He said they have been back to the house several times and as early as a week and a half ago. They've removed evidence from the house, the garage, the shed and the property.

It seems to me they have reason to believe that whatever happened to the boys may have happened in that house.

Imo

 

[Rachelj1]

Cadaver dogs will "alert" to human remains, while search dogs follow a scent. LE said the boys scent never left the house, so it sounds like search dogs did pick up their scent inside the home, but no further than that. Cadaver dogs did not alert to human remains at the residence. I'm not sure why the woman kept asking about bodies being under the house.

He also said there are witnesses who said they saw the boys in the months and days before they were reported missing, but could not name a specific day they were last seen by anyone besides the parents.

He said they have been back to the house several times and as early as a week ago. They've removed evidence from the house, the garage, the shed and the property.

It seems to me they have reason to believe that whatever happened to the boys may have happened in that house.

Imo

Right but it makes you wonder if their scent was just picked up from an old piece of clothing or maybe furniture that they once sat on? To me that’s not saying they were absolutely there in the flesh .
IMO

 

[MsBetsy]

Right but it makes you wonder if their scent was just picked up from an old piece of clothing or maybe furniture that they once sat on? To me that’s not saying they were absolutely there in the flesh .
IMO

That could be, but I would think if the boys had been missing for over three months, other family members would have indicated this to investigators. Especially the four siblings. They are old enough to know the difference between a few months and a week.

It's hard to know for sure because we don't know what details witnesses have given LE. He didn't say who or how many people saw the boys days or weeks before.

 

[Algo214]

All I'll say for now is that the interview that was released brought my confidence in his and the PDs work moving forward.

 

[Rachelj1]

That could be, but I would think if the boys had been missing for over three months, other family members would have indicated this to investigators. Especially the four siblings. They are old enough to know the difference between a few months and a week.

It's hard to know for sure because we don't know what details witnesses have given LE. He didn't say who or how many people saw the boys days or weeks before.

I just wonder how often they saw extended family members ?

 

[Rachelj1]

I would not be able to be a detective , Bc I would not sleep until I got answers ! It would be so easy for T and W to tell their 4 other children that the little boys were given to a new family . They probably wouldn’t even think twice Bc they have been groomed to trust those 2 fully I’m sure. I mean what little children don’t trust their parents if they don’t know any different ?

moo