Still Missing CA - Orson & Orrin West (3&4), California City, 21 Dec 2020 #3

[mickey2942]

You do not believe that someone can snap?

I actually do not believe that people "Snap". Which is why child abuse education is so important to never let parents physically touch a child. Because some people don't have a "control switch" if they are angry or frustrated.

Spanking can just keep escalating. Or whatever. It is not okay to spank kids, or restrain them.

No, won't argue about this. If you never hit your child, you won't "snap" and go overboard. Hitting is not okay.

 

[Frodosdojo]

bbm

I would think that as long as they stayed close to the house and a responsible adult watched over them-- it'd be o.k. ?

If you had 6 kids in an apartment complex and they were all under 9, plus a pandemic, I may not let them outside either. Little kids touch everything !

 

[Knox]

One thing I wish Perla would have asked in her interview yesterday - why haven't the missing posters been updated with more recent photo's of the boys? Are there no better/more recent photos? I would have loved to hear Chief Walker's answer to that question.

 

[Frodosdojo]

One thing I wish Perla would have asked in her interview yesterday - why haven't the missing posters been updated with more recent photo's of the boys? Are there no better/more recent photos? I would have loved to hear Chief Walker's answer to that question.

Yes, that would have been an excellent question to ask ! Isn't it important that the picture is accurate to help find them ? I asked Namus to update a case that had misinformation on it and they did it quickly with no fuss.

 

[Frodosdojo]

I have a question, folks. I assumed that once the other kids were taken into protective custody that they would be interviewed. But I'm reading that the parents can tell the officials they do not allow them to be interviewed and the police have to abide by that. Is that true ? I wish the reporter had asked if the other kids have been interviewed. Does anyone recall if that question has been answered ?

 

[nyvictoria]

I believe these kids were isolated. The Bakersfield neighbors said the kids never played outside. He said he could see them looking out the window. The adoptive father said he kept them inside because of the pandemic. They did live close to the adoptive mom's mother so I would like to know what she has to say.

The oldest is 9, so I wouldn't expect him to call 911 and report his siblings missing. He didn't go to school and was reportedly never outside, so I don't think he had any opportunities to confide in anyone. MOO



The Chief said they knocked on every door in the neighborhood.

Were the kids home schooled before the pandemic? I get vibes from the parents that they don’t like outside interference in any part of their lives. Covid gave them a convenient excuse.

 

[LietKynes]

If you had 6 kids in an apartment complex and they were all under 9, plus a pandemic, I may not let them outside either. Little kids touch everything !

Partly my point.
What if being cooped up made the parents lose their patience ?

 

[labradoodlelover]

I actually do not believe that people "Snap". Which is why child abuse education is so important to never let parents physically touch a child. Because some people don't have a "control switch" if they are angry or frustrated.

Spanking can just keep escalating. Or whatever. It is not okay to spank kids, or restrain them.

No, won't argue about this. If you never hit your child, you won't "snap" and go overboard. Hitting is not okay.

I understand this perspective. I have a son and I have spanked him before, but I HATE the way it made me feel. Made me feel so dirty and like a horrible person.

 

[Frodosdojo]

Were the kids home schooled before the pandemic? I get vibes from the parents that they don’t like outside interference in any part of their lives. Covid gave them a convenient excuse.

It was reported that they were being home schooled. Where, I'm not sure, but that's what I recall.

Partly my point.
What if being cooped up made the parents lose their patience ?

You can lose your patience but never strike your kids. Some people are not opposed to spanking but I am. It does not teach your children anything positive. In fact, it crosses a boundary where that child may grow up and accept physical violence in a relationship as normal. MOO

You can always tell the child to go to their room, no tv, no toys, etc.

 

[Eloise]

You do not believe that someone can snap?

I don't believe anyone but someone who is already abusive would 'snap' to the point of killing. Also, even if somebody 'snaps', it's still never the fault of the victim. Provocation has been removed as a defense in most jurisdictions (or remains only as a partial defence to reduce a charge) and rightfully so.

It was reported that they were being home schooled. Where, I'm not sure, but that's what I recall.

Orson and Orrin weren't school age. Do you mean the older kids?

 

[LietKynes]

It was reported that they were being home schooled. Where, I'm not sure, but that's what I recall.



You can lose your patience but never strike your kids. Some people are not opposed to spanking but I am. It does not teach your children anything positive. In fact, it crosses a boundary where that child may grow up and accept physical violence in a relationship as normal. MOO

You can always tell the child to go to their room, no tv, no toys, etc.

Actually I think we're in agreement ; but we're coming at this case from different perspectives ?

I'm not saying corporal punishment is fine.
However-- and this is speculation -- what IF someone(s) lost their schizzle and crossed a line ?
It seems like some event precipitated Orrin and Orson's 'vanishing'.
So what happened ?

My first guess was that they've been gone for a while now -- and some family get together (Christmas) was coming up where their absence would be noticed ?

Or like I said -- someone lost patience and a coverup ensued.

What I don't think happened is : that they weren't being looked after and wandered off; or that an abductor has them.

Which leaves few alternatives that are hopeful.

I think by now LE have spoken to the person(s) in charge of the older kids while they were on their 'vacation', as the adoptive dad put it.
Odd wording, imo.
MOO.

 

[MsBetsy]

I have a question, folks. I assumed that once the other kids were taken into protective custody that they would be interviewed. But I'm reading that the parents can tell the officials they do not allow them to be interviewed and the police have to abide by that. Is that true ? I wish the reporter had asked if the other kids have been interviewed. Does anyone recall if that question has been answered ?

I don't think it's true that they need parent's permission to question the kids when they are in protective custody. Once CPS is involved, it is part of their investigation to question the children about their home environment and the family dynamics, including the circumstances surrounding their brothers disappearance. They would also look into all school and medical records and interview other family members as well as any friends of the family who see the children on a regular basis.

Imo

 

[labradoodlelover]

I don't believe anyone but someone who is already abusive would 'snap' to the point of killing. Also, even if somebody 'snaps', it's still never the fault of the victim. Provocation has been removed as a defense in most jurisdictions (or remains only as a partial defence to reduce a charge) and rightfully so.




Orson and Orrin weren't school age. Do you mean the older kids?

Of course, the victim mis never to blame! NO ONE deserves to be killed, ever. I do agree with your thoughts about someone snapping... I think it would already be in them to abuse and then they take it way too far.

 

[LietKynes]

Of course, the victim mis never to blame! NO ONE deserves to be killed, ever. I do agree with your thoughts about someone snapping... I think it would already be in them to abuse and then they take it way too far.

bbm
Agreed.

Whatever has happened here... LE aren't buying what they're selling, and I'm following LE's lead.
So sorry for little Orrin and Orson.
Not much older than toddlers, just busy with life and growing up.
It's like every adult in their lives failed them.
IMO.

 

[MoeInVA]

One thing I wish Perla would have asked in her interview yesterday - why haven't the missing posters been updated with more recent photo's of the boys? Are there no better/more recent photos? I would have loved to hear Chief Walker's answer to that question.

I keep pushing the reporters on this where I can. Did she forget to ask or is that one off limits? Keep pushing folks. She certainly was making the ATTEMPT to get answers on last seen by anyone but parents. Could have pressed more on last VERIFIED location and photo IMO. But I saw her trying and I get that these reporters are probably beginners and navigating politics/ access issues etc. My favorite line was when he couldnt confirm there wasnt an arrest expected soon. Also liked how when asked if the investigation had been handed off to BPD or FBI, he specified that Cal PD is in charge of the "Missing person case" -- like maybe BPD has lead on another investigation aka homicide... maybe Im too optimistic about evidence/progress.... JMO

 

[rosesfromangels]

I keep pushing the reporters on this where I can. Did she forget to ask or is that one off limits? Keep pushing folks. She certainly was making the ATTEMPT to get answers on last seen by anyone but parents. Could have pressed more on last VERIFIED location and photo IMO. But I saw her trying and I get that these reporters are probably beginners and navigating politics/ access issues etc. My favorite line was when he couldnt confirm there wasnt an arrest expected soon. Also liked how when asked if the investigation had been handed off to BPD or FBI, he specified that Cal PD is in charge of the "Missing person case" -- like maybe BPD has lead on another investigation aka homicide... maybe Im too optimistic about evidence/progress.... JMO

I can’t recall when I’ve been as impressed with a local LE. They zipped out to that home and started searching for the boys when the missing report came in. Then it seemed something triggered them and they got warrants and started digging. They have been aggressive and agile. I’m expecting a breakthrough very soon. Kudos to the Chief.

amateur opinion and speculation

 

[Mitch1]

I don't believe anyone but someone who is already abusive would 'snap' to the point of killing. Also, even if somebody 'snaps', it's still never the fault of the victim. Provocation has been removed as a defense in most jurisdictions (or remains only as a partial defence to reduce a charge) and rightfully so.

I don’t know didn’t Chris Watts snap?

 

[LietKynes]

I keep pushing the reporters on this where I can. Did she forget to ask or is that one off limits? Keep pushing folks. She certainly was making the ATTEMPT to get answers on last seen by anyone but parents. Could have pressed more on last VERIFIED location and photo IMO. But I saw her trying and I get that these reporters are probably beginners and navigating politics/ access issues etc. My favorite line was when he couldnt confirm there wasnt an arrest expected soon. Also liked how when asked if the investigation had been handed off to BPD or FBI, he specified that Cal PD is in charge of the "Missing person case" -- like maybe BPD has lead on another investigation aka homicide... maybe Im too optimistic about evidence/progress.... JMO

Ita.

I also thought the chief seemed to be holding a lot back.
Which is both sad and good at the same time.
And imo progress is being made, we just aren't privy to it yet !
Imo.

 

[mickey2942]

Are the other children still in the home with the parents?

 

[AmandaReckonwith]

Since it started I have been trying-trying-trying to figure out how it could be anyone other than the parents.
Heck, I gave Barry M the benefit of the doubt for a while even when others pointed out the fakey plea video for her. Soon I had to admit it smelled like a pig.
I never want it to be the parents.
Yet, it is usually them. I will never understand how and why and wth made them turn on precious little children. Look at the sweet eyes on children and the
need for love, and yet we have thousands of cases. I hate it.