Still Missing CA - Orson & Orrin West (3&4), California City, 21 Dec 2020 #3

[Eloise]

I don’t know didn’t Chris Watts snap?

absolutely not

 

[AmandaReckonwith]

Are the other children still in the home with the parents?

No, they are in protective custody and the parents are staying "somewhere in B'field" according to Jon Walker.

 

[MsBetsy]

I don’t know didn’t Chris Watts snap?

Well, that's what he claimed but the evidence showed that he planned the murders. I think it's a common defense, though. Imo

 

[MoeInVA]

Are the other children still in the home with the parents?

We don’t know but the implication from the medium posts from extended family was that they were still working on it. This is the part of cases that makes me the most mad.To some extent, I get it. But I was in a situation where we, extended family out of state, called in concerns of awful abuse. Kids were removed and isolated from us and one another in institutions for months during investigation. Never make a CPS report without first consulting a lawyer. After the fact, all the lawyers in the world couldn’t speed up the process. We should have come up with a scenario for a visit before calling it in.

 

[MoeInVA]

If you had 6 kids in an apartment complex and they were all under 9, plus a pandemic, I may not let them outside either. Little kids touch everything !

No way!! I have kids under 9. Believe me!! You would be taking those kids outside. If your neighborhood wasn’t walkable you would drive them to parks and hikes and bike trails - even parking lots. I did all of those things this spring. I took my kids fishing and to parks, beaches, hikes. The rest of the time yes lots of screen time but also lots of yard time and neighborhood walks and bike rides. Did you know in the pandemic it became impossible to get a bike for children or adults for a while? I ran into it! It’s true. People were getting out of their closed quarters when they could. Out of necessity!!

 

[mickey2942]

We don’t know but the implication from the medium posts from extended family was that they were still working on it. This is the part of cases that makes me the most mad.To some extent, I get it. But I was in a situation where we, extended family out of state, called in concerns of awful abuse. Kids were removed and isolated from us and one another in institutions for months during investigation. Never make a CPS report without first consulting a lawyer. After the fact, all the lawyers in the world couldn’t speed up the process. We should have come up with a scenario for a visit before calling it in.

Agreed. Sorry about that situation.

In this case, I am glad to hear that the rest of the children are safe.

 

[mickey2942]

No way!! I have kids under 9. Believe me!! You would be taking those kids outside. If your neighborhood wasn’t walkable you would drive them to parks and hikes and bike trails - even parking lots. I did all of those things this spring. I took my kids fishing and to parks, beaches, hikes. The rest of the time yes lots of screen time but also lots of yard time and neighborhood walks and bike rides. Did you know in the pandemic it became impossible to get a bike for children or adults for a while? I ran into it! It’s true. People were getting out of their closed quarters when they could. Out of necessity!!

Agree again. The more outside the better lately. Hiking, playing games. Staying inside, is a bad idea if people are crowded with "rambunctious" children.

 

[MsBetsy]

No way!! I have kids under 9. Believe me!! You would be taking those kids outside. If your neighborhood wasn’t walkable you would drive them to parks and hikes and bike trails - even parking lots. I did all of those things this spring. I took my kids fishing and to parks, beaches, hikes. The rest of the time yes lots of screen time but also lots of yard time and neighborhood walks and bike rides. Did you know in the pandemic it became impossible to get a bike for children or adults for a while? I ran into it! It’s true. People were getting out of their closed quarters when they could. Out of necessity!!

Also, they didn't live in an apartment complex and there is a big back yard for the kids to run around in.

I would think the kids would be asking and pleading to go outside if the parents tried to keep them inside all the time.

 

[MoeInVA]

Also, they didn't live in an apartment complex and there is a big back yard for the kids to run around in.

I would think the kids would be asking and pleading to go outside if the parents tried to keep them inside all the time.

I can’t get past the lack of recent photos and the police chief stating NONE of the children were seen in Cal City. Those poor kids.

 

[MsBetsy]

We don’t know but the implication from the medium posts from extended family was that they were still working on it. This is the part of cases that makes me the most mad.To some extent, I get it. But I was in a situation where we, extended family out of state, called in concerns of awful abuse. Kids were removed and isolated from us and one another in institutions for months during investigation. Never make a CPS report without first consulting a lawyer. After the fact, all the lawyers in the world couldn’t speed up the process. We should have come up with a scenario for a visit before calling it in.

Did the extended family say that the children were still in the state's care? I got the impression that they were with them since they said they were trying to protect and shield them from all that has happened. I only read their first statement, though. Is there another one?

 

[LietKynes]

Agree again. The more outside the better lately. Hiking, playing games. Staying inside, is a bad idea if people are crowded with "rambunctious" children.

bbm
Thanks for the reminder. ^^^

I'd forgotten that the adoptive dad said this !
His own words.
Was it a 'tell' ?

Speculation : In their own minds (TW and JW), did the 6 kids 'drive them nuts' ?
Also keep in mind the youngest boys may have needed the most attention.
It could have been as simple as a punishment that went too far.

Sad... as the root word of 'discipline' is "disciple" -- i.e., to teach or guide.
It has nothing to do with hitting or 'spanking'.
MOO

 

[MoeInVA]

Did the extended family say that the children were still in the state's care? I got the impression that they were with them since they said they were trying to protect and shield them from all that has happened. I only read their first statement, though. Is there another one?

Might be wrong but I think they were still struggling with it. As I did in a similar scenario.

“We are grateful to the reward funds that have been establish and plead with everyone willing to please help us find our boys and bring them all home safely.”

 

[MsBetsy]

No, they are in protective custody and the parents are staying "somewhere in B'field" according to Jon Walker.

I didn't hear him mention the other kids at all in the most recent video, unless I missed it. The only time I remember him saying they were in protective custody was a month ago in the first statement to the media.

When the reporter asked him where the family was staying he said somewhere in Bakersfield and that he'd rather not say where.

So I don't think we know for sure that they are still in protective custody. Usually the courts would place children with other family members rather than in foster care with strangers. Not many foster parents can take in four children.

Imo

 

[Frodosdojo]

Actually I think we're in agreement ; but we're coming at this case from different perspectives ?

I'm not saying corporal punishment is fine.
However-- and this is speculation -- what IF someone(s) lost their schizzle and crossed a line ?
It seems like some event precipitated Orrin and Orson's 'vanishing'.
So what happened ?

My first guess was that they've been gone for a while now -- and some family get together (Christmas) was coming up where their absence would be noticed ?

Or like I said -- someone lost patience and a coverup ensued.

What I don't think happened is : that they weren't being looked after and wandered off; or that an abductor has them.

Which leaves few alternatives that are hopeful.

I think by now LE have spoken to the person(s) in charge of the older kids while they were on their 'vacation', as the adoptive dad put it.
Odd wording, imo.
MOO.

Unless I'm misunderstanding you, we are definitely not in agreement. I don't believe someone lost their shizzle and that's certainly not a legal defense. A person can say they snapped or lost it, but we as a society, according to our laws, don't care. If you hurt someone, for whatever reason, unless it was self defense, it was a crime. In the case of these babies, there was nothing they could possibly do, to warrant being murdered or fatally harmed.

Also, they didn't live in an apartment complex and there is a big back yard for the kids to run around in.

I would think the kids would be asking and pleading to go outside if the parents tried to keep them inside all the time.

They did to live in an apartment complex. The family have only been in that house 3 months. Before that, they lived in an apartment in Bakersfield.

 

[Vae Victus]

"Cal City Police Chief Jon Walker confirmed the Wests were asked to take the test, the day after the couple reported 3-year-old Orson and 4-year-old Orrin West missing."

But did they take the test? It says the tests were requested but didn't say they cooperated.

"Authorities confirm that a polygraph test was requested from Trezell and Jaqueline West, the adoptive parents of the toddler brothers reported missing in California City on Dec. 21."

https://www.turnto23.com/news/local...-city-boys-adoptive-parents-officials-confirm

 

[LietKynes]

Unless I'm misunderstanding you, we are definitely not in agreement. I don't believe someone lost their shizzle and that's certainly not a legal defense. A person can say they snapped or lost it, but we as a society, according to our laws, don't care. If you hurt someone, for whatever reason, unless it was self defense, it was a crime. In the case of these babies, there was nothing they could possibly do, to warrant being murdered or fatally harmed.

Snipped for focus
Oh, no , I'm not saying it's a legal defense for TW and JW.
Nor am I victim blaming.
I do think we are misunderstanding each other, but are still thinking along the same lines, if that makes sense ?

I am theorizing however about what might have happened.
Again my first inclination was that a family visit or other event was coming up and the boys were not able to be produced for such an event.
And it might have been Christmas, as their (Orrin and Orson) absence might not have been able to be explained away.

Parents could hire a sitter for a dinner out with their friends, or for a movie night.
But this is interesting -- what if it was extended family and someone had not been able to talk with boys or even facetime for a long time, and were asking questions in a suspicious way ?

My second thought is that something else happened and a coverup ensued.
I'm still going with an Occams' Razor theory.

Anything else is yet unknown and until we hear more from LE we are left to guess what might have occurred.
Imo.

 

[MsBetsy]

Unless I'm misunderstanding you, we are definitely not in agreement. I don't believe someone lost their shizzle and that's certainly not a legal defense. A person can say they snapped or lost it, but we as a society, according to our laws, don't care. If you hurt someone, for whatever reason, unless it was self defense, it was a crime. In the case of these babies, there was nothing they could possibly do, to warrant being murdered or fatally harmed.




They did to live in an apartment complex. The family have only been in that house 3 months. Before that, they lived in an apartment in Bakersfield.

Yes, but the house they were referring to was the one they lived in at the time. They said the kids were not allowed on the dirt and they tried to stay inside. They didn't mention whether or not the kids went outside when they lived at their old apartment. Imo

 

[Vae Victus]

One more thing from this article.

It's confirmed now that they have their phones back but the Wests still haven't made any new missing posters with the recent pictures JW claims she has. In their interview they shifted the blame to LE and said the reason why there's no recent pics circulating is because LE "took their tech". Now we know that they have their phones back and still haven't put out new posters or anything. That strikes me as a little odd lol. You'd figure they'd want people to know what Orrin & Orson look like currently.

"Search warrant used to collect items from the home, including adoptive parents cell phones, ipads and other electronic devices. Phones have since been returned."

https://www.turnto23.com/news/local...-city-boys-adoptive-parents-officials-confirm

 

[Mitch1]

New interview
https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=2745086998949877&id=1460707007387889

 

[PommyMommy]

"Cal City Police Chief Jon Walker confirmed the Wests were asked to take the test, the day after the couple reported 3-year-old Orson and 4-year-old Orrin West missing."

But did they take the test? It says the tests were requested but didn't say they cooperated.

"Authorities confirm that a polygraph test was requested from Trezell and Jaqueline West, the adoptive parents of the toddler brothers reported missing in California City on Dec. 21."

https://www.turnto23.com/news/local...-city-boys-adoptive-parents-officials-confirm

Finally!

According to Walker, the last time the boys were seen by anyone other than the Wests was by their grandmother in Bakersfield. Walker was unable to comment on when that occurred.

Before that, Walker said someone other than family also saw the boys in Bakersfield. Walker was unable to comment on that date as well.