Still Missing CA - Orson & Orrin West (3&4), California City, 21 Dec 2020 #4

[Number8]

While this is more likely focused on prostitution of vulnerable victims (usually girls 11-13 yrs. old), I certainly hope LE is investigating whether any of these Perps had any ties (financial or otherwise), to the subjects of this threads investigation.

Yes, I believe the boys were sold. For what, I shudder to speculate.

https://www.turnto23.com/news/local-news/bpd-operation-underway-at-desert-star-motel-on-s-union-ave

Amateur opinion and speculation

I dunno. I find it a bit far-fetched that the boys were sold. I’m not saying it doesn’t happen, I just think that in this particular case, it seems unlikely, especially because the parents had 2 foster children, so they knew they were being monitored/would be checked up on.

IMO, the most likely scenario is that there was neglect or even abuse in the home and something terrible happened. They panicked and decided to get rid of the evidence/cover it up and crafted this narrative that the kids just “disappeared” from the backyard. I don’t think either of them are that sharp because their story is not particularly sophisticated (it’s easily disproved by the security footage) and they both seemed insecure, nervous and defensive in their on-camera interview. I don’t think they’re seasoned criminals, my gut instinct tells me they’re covering up something horrible and making it up as they go along.

I just can’t believe the boys haven’t been found yet. I check in here every few days and the fact that they’re still missing is heartbreaking.

 

[MadTing]

How did the other children go to Grandma's when there was a stay at home order, but little O and O couldn't play outside cos of Covid?

Great catch!

 

[Teche]

Does either of the parents work outside of the home? When I was a case manager under the auspices of the DA, I worked with school-aged children and their parents. I made frequent home visits and found that families took in foster care and many of the parents did not work outside the home. Red flags for case managers.

 

[Seattle1]

How did the other children go to Grandma's when there was a stay at home order, but little O and O couldn't play outside cos of Covid?

I dunno. It looks like the order in effect on 12/19 doesn't list Kern County as part of the 11 counties. I think they lived by their own rules...

Newsom Says Stay-At-Home Order Expected To Be Extended

 

[Seattle1]

Does either of the parents work outside of the home? When I was a case manager under the auspices of the DA, I worked with school-aged children and their parents. I made frequent home visits and found that families took in foster care and many of the parents did not work outside the home. Red flags for case managers.

I've seen it reported that JW was a stay-at-home mom to the children but nothing about the father. I think this notion makes the case baffling to me as to why they would harm and/or disappear the very source of their income paying for their new residence just purchased in Sept 2020.

 

[rosesfromangels]

I dunno. I find it a bit far-fetched that the boys were sold. I’m not saying it doesn’t happen, I just think that in this particular case, it seems unlikely, especially because the parents had 2 foster children, so they knew they were being monitored/would be checked up on.

IMO, the most likely scenario is that there was neglect or even abuse in the home and something terrible happened. They panicked and decided to get rid of the evidence/cover it up and crafted this narrative that the kids just “disappeared” from the backyard. I don’t think either of them are that sharp because their story is not particularly sophisticated (it’s easily disproved by the security footage) and they both seemed insecure, nervous and defensive in their on-camera interview. I don’t think they’re seasoned criminals, my gut instinct tells me they’re covering up something horrible and making it up as they go along.

I just can’t believe the boys haven’t been found yet. I check in here every few days and the fact that they’re still missing is heartbreaking.

Here's why I refute that speculation. An accident with one of the children....maybe. But two?! Really hard to fathom.

Amateur opinion and speculation

 

[imstilla.grandma]

Hot car deaths are the only way I can make it work in my head to correlate to two child deaths. Unintentional deaths from abuse/neglect. What are the major causes of accidental death? Hot cars, drownings, suffocation, etc.

I’m thinking we heard Chief Walker say luminal was used in the van and there was no blood found. I wish the reporter would have asked if other bodily fluids were found. He did say no evidence of the boys outside of the house. Does the car count as inside (garage) and could that be where the dog hit?

 

[imstilla.grandma]

I found an article that illustrates a happy ending for a former Bakersfield foster youth and written a few weeks ago.

Cristal Ramirez, MS, is the youth coordinator for the National Association of Counsel for Children. She is a person with lived experience in the foster care system and is passionate about advocating for better policies and best practices for youth and families.

My name is Cristal and I am a former foster youth from Bakersfield, California. I spent about 11 years in the Kern County, California, foster care system. I lived in many homes (26 foster homes and one group home), attended many schools (11 in fifth grade alone) and had many social workers.

I think it’s important to watch what you say to any youth, especially when you are working with foster youth. I came across many social workers when I was younger who reminded me of the statistics and how “impossible” it was to go after what I wanted. They told me that I should lower my expectations because it is harder for foster youth.

I agree that it is more challenging for foster youth to make it and that foster youth have to jump through so many more hoops compared to non-foster youth to succeed, but that isn’t a reason for foster youth to think they can’t or shouldn’t pursue their dreams. Having social workers who thought I couldn’t make it made me want to prove them wrong.

Foster youth don’t need to be reminded of all the statistics that are stacked against them — they know. Foster youth don’t need to be told it is impossible for them to succeed, because it is not. Foster youth don’t need to feel that they shouldn’t dream big, because they should. Foster youth need to be encouraged and told that they can do it, because they can.

Foster youth need to be validated because life can be and is harder to navigate when you have to go through systems that aren’t exactly set up for you to “make it,” and they have every reason to be angry about that. Foster youth need to be told that you believe in them and that they are beautiful and smart because more often than not, they’re not coming from homes where they hear those things very often.
I’m a Former Foster Youth; How a Few Words From My Attorney Changed My Life - Youth Today

 

[musemoon]

Thank you for sharing real-life information, it's important to understand the process we've been discussing for a month now. More importantly, thank you for recertifying in anticipation of adopting a child/children. I've been trying to stay focused on the fact that for the most part the system is good and beneficial to kids. Ill motives exist, but it shouldn't color the system as a whole.

Thank you. Most foster and foster/adoptive parents I know are like me. I found out I couldn't have kids and decided that with 30 thousand children in Los Angeles county looking for homes, any other way of building a family seemed selfish. It is hard and the kids have challenges but knowing you are helping a child and loving them and getting them the services they need adds another level of wonderfulness to parenthood. It is so hard though, I wouldn't sugar coat it at all these kids have tough backgrounds and tougher behaviors, but they do heal and grow...and so hearing all the foster parent bashing is pretty hard because MOST foster and adoptive parents I know are jumping through one hoop after another to provide a healthy life for their kiddos. And....at the moment one of my kids is in short-term residential therapeutic treatment. She is with other girls her age (12) and in that group of fifteen girls only ONE! her, has a parent, the rest will likely never be adopted and that is why I hate hearing the foster care bashing, those kids will never know what it's like to have a family again because there aren't enough people willing to foster and adopt children and that is so so sad...

 

[AgeofAquaruis]

JAN 25, 2021
Cal City police asks residents to report people trespassing at home of missing boys’ adoptive parents | KGET 17
[...]

The department is asking people to stay off the property at 10717 Aspen Ave. and report anyone suspicious on the premises.

[...]

Coming back to this subject. I wonder why LE doesn't seal off the entire property as crime scene and not let anyone in or out except LE Period. Being as that is where the Orrin and Orson reportedly disappeared from. Which is considered a crime. MOO

 

[imstilla.grandma]

Coming back to this subject. I wonder why LE doesn't seal off the entire property as crime scene and not let anyone in or out except LE Period. Being as that is where the Orrin and Orson reportedly disappeared from. Which is considered a crime. MOO

You’re right. I thought about that and the only time I see it is here.

https://www.turnto23.com/news/missi...unds-home-of-adoptive-parents-of-missing-boys

 

[susiQ]

Thank you. Most foster and foster/adoptive parents I know are like me. I found out I couldn't have kids and decided that with 30 thousand children in Los Angeles county looking for homes, any other way of building a family seemed selfish. It is hard and the kids have challenges but knowing you are helping a child and loving them and getting them the services they need adds another level of wonderfulness to parenthood. It is so hard though, I wouldn't sugar coat it at all these kids have tough backgrounds and tougher behaviors, but they do heal and grow...and so hearing all the foster parent bashing is pretty hard because MOST foster and adoptive parents I know are jumping through one hoop after another to provide a healthy life for their kiddos. And....at the moment one of my kids is in short-term residential therapeutic treatment. She is with other girls her age (12) and in that group of fifteen girls only ONE! her, has a parent, the rest will likely never be adopted and that is why I hate hearing the foster care bashing, those kids will never know what it's like to have a family again because there aren't enough people willing to foster and adopt children and that is so so sad...

Thank you so much @musemoon for sharing your story with us. Sometimes we need to be reminded that the majority of people that foster children and even go on to adopt them, do it for all the right reasons and we are thankful for those that do. So many children need some hope in their lives and to be part of a family that loves and cherishes them so that they can become all they were meant to be. Bless you for being one of those people that have the love and empathy needed for this great work.

It is most unfortunate that there are those that do it for all the wrong reasons and we end up here .

 

[susiQ]

Coming back to this subject. I wonder why LE doesn't seal off the entire property as crime scene and not let anyone in or out except LE Period. Being as that is where the Orrin and Orson reportedly disappeared from. Which is considered a crime. MOO

The only thing I can think of is that LE do not at all believe this home is the crime scene. No indication the boys were ever in the yard to be abducted and no blood or scent of cadaverine to indicate a crime occurred in that house.

That leaves us with something happening to the boys somewhere else, but where, when and how? A crime HAS been committed, of that we are certain. MOO

 

[Seattle1]

Coming back to this subject. I wonder why LE doesn't seal off the entire property as crime scene and not let anyone in or out except LE Period. Being as that is where the Orrin and Orson reportedly disappeared from. Which is considered a crime. MOO

Reportedly, two search warrants were previously requested and issued by a judge, granting LE authorization to search the residence and surrounding property. However, the warrants would have identified the property, area, and specifically noted what they were looking for. The grounds were reportedly excavated and the boys were not located. These searches were executed more than a month ago and police have taken any evidence granted under the warrants.

Police have not taken extended custody of this property -- sealed it off as a crime scene, preventing anybody including the owners from accessing their property because the constitution protects owners from such measures.

I believe a large number of people do not believe the boys ever resided in California City, and that the boys disappeared before the family moved to their new residence. Except for the statements by the parents that the boys disappeared from the backyard, I'm unaware of any evidence that proves their statements true or that the home was ever a crime scene!

I understand the owners voluntarily left their property after receiving death threats, and not absent because the house is under seizure by authorities. MOO

 

[susiQ]

Still in the news. However, nothing new.

 

[Bbybluz]

Prior to the boys going to the Wests for fostering the bio mom's mother had custody of them. For some reason they were removed from her care.
CA - CA - Orson & Orrin West (3&4), MEDIA, MAPS & TIMELINE - NO DISCUSSION

I agree that a competent attorney is necessary to navigate through the court system. We don't know why the boys were removed from their grandmother's care but IMO it does appear that CPS was willing to keep the boys within family at one time.

The boys weren’t at the grandmother’s home prior to the West home. The lady standing next to RD was the prior Foster mom whom RD developed a friendship with & was able to visit with the boys & bonding with them.

The boys were then taken from her home & placed with T&J West with what sounded like continued supervised visits at DHS until the last court visit before adoption.

The above is my own words from listening to the interviews with Bio mom in the archives.

 

[Dawookie]

Yes, she said she had not seen them since 2018 and she doesn't know the Wests. It's not a surprise they won't talk to her. They are only obligated to speak to LE about the investigation. Imo

That's what I thought, I wonder why they'd print she was still in the boys lives

 

[AgeofAquaruis]

The only thing I can think of is that LE do not at all believe this home is the crime scene. No indication the boys were ever in the yard to be abducted and no blood or scent of cadaverine to indicate a crime occurred in that house.

That leaves us with something happening to the boys somewhere else, but where, when and how? A crime HAS been committed, of that we are certain. MOO

Yeah but technically it's still a crime scene. Keep that locked down like it's the new Covid19 varient while chasing down all leads. MOO

 

[Seattle1]

That's what I thought, I wonder why they'd print she was still in the boys lives

I believe that RD or her people most likely misspoke to ABC and they printed the recent story before completely vetting the facts. ABC gave promo-billing on Thurs/Friday that GMA Saturday would feature RD, bio-mom of the missing boys. I think the producer learned too late that the story they printed did not check out. I believe the result was GMA airing 5-seconds of RD video and filling the remaining allotted segment with clips of old news.

Just to be clear, I think RD is a victim here with the knowledge that the beautiful children she gave birth to probably met with foul play. I also think she may be surrounded by individuals that are giving her bad advice, instead of supporting and comforting her, and that's an added tragedy.

MOO

 

[Bbybluz]

It takes A LOT to terminate someone's parental rights. If she showed up to every visit on time, sober, and was willing to work her case plan, she'd have her kids. No judge would take children away from a compliant mother. Many birth parents have lots of reasons why they can't be compliant, but a judge doesn't care about excuses. If she did the work, she'd have her kids...period. No one is going to say that they made a BIG mistake to a blame hungry group of strangers in the media. It's better for her to look like the victim. It's okay to admit to small mistakes (like not being home when a child was injured, or using medical marijuana) but if the court says stop using marijuana to get your kids back, you stop. Period. They say jump...you jump! For a mom who has lost her children for the first time they give them at least two years to get their kids back, so she's not telling the whole truth either...none of them are. You can't be as innocent as she claims to be and lose your parental rights...they give parents a lot of chances to reunify with their children and there are therapists, lawyers, cps workers, and supervisors involved as well as an appeal process which every parent has the right to use...so...

AND....IF the Wests had a set of foster children in the California City home...they SHOULD have had a new homestudy in September. If the children were fostered and not adopted, (not O and O but the other kids) they should have a new homestudy done, because they can't move foster kids without an updated homestudy. A homestudy is not only a search of the home for adequate housing but also an interview with ALL of the children and an identification of their beds and sleeping arrangements. They would have to have eyeballs on all of the kids in order to approve the move...that's just procedure. So... if two of the children were foster children CPS should have seen O and O around September. Perhaps there were excuses for reasons they were not seen in other months, but if foster kids moved with them, then they should have had an updated homestudy after they moved in. Now if they didn't see the kids CPS made a huge mistake, which makes me tend to think this isn't an ongoing abuse issue as too many people in the system SHOULD have seen the boys.

You seem to be very “matter of fact” with the rules & procedures of DHS & fostering. I appreciate an inside view of the system do you by chance specialize in this field?

I wish it was as cut & dry as you describe but I lived through the opposite myself.

I have a couple questions for you if I may? While the West were living in Bakersfield they lived in a 3 bedroom apt with 8 people. When I was in the system we were only allowed so many in each bedroom based on the size of the room. Is it still this way? Would that apt be approved during all the home visits? Was it ok for the West to home school the other foster children?

TIA I really appreciate your thoughts.