Still Missing CA - Orson & Orrin West (3&4), California City, 21 Dec 2020 #5

[katydid23]

Or wait until they go to sleep for the night? At that age they go to bed pretty early.

That's what I was thinking. You can't tuck them in for the night and then wrap presents?

 

[rosesfromangels]

Bayan Wang@bayanwang
MISSING BOYS REWARD: The reward for the toddler brothers reported missing in California City on Dec. 21 has now increased to $120,000, according to California City Manager Anna Linn. DETAILS: https://bit.ly/3axNfac

If anyone out there had information and wasn't directly or indirectly involved, I believe they would have come forward by now.
$120k isn't chump change by any means.

Perhaps they have, and LE is still working on the tip, or conferring with the DA.
Given the times, I think rewards are especially enticing.

amateur opinion and speculation

 

[elliefant]

I think it’s probably the same as for Tricia’s podcasts. See post #6 of this thread
CA - CA - Orson & Orrin West (3&4), California City, 21 Dec 2020 #5

 

[Rachelj1]

I also think TW is strict and controlling Bc that is how he comes across in his interview. I think his wife seemed nervous . He also has empty eyes which IMO is similar to many other sociopaths .
Moo

 

[CocoChanel]

ADMIN NOTE:
......
Tricia's podcast is its own social media, separate and apart from this forum. There are times when Tricia will be discussing things on her podcast that are not approved for discussion here on the board. That's what makes her podcast so very interesting.

IOW, if Tricia is addressing a social media rumor on her podcast, it is not allowed here because it is rumor. The same goes for other podcasts. They are interesting, intriguing, and can be downright Yowza, but not everything is allowed here for discussion.

Hopefully that is clear. Any questions, please ask them in a private message to me.

Please do not ask questions on the public threads about posts that are removed. That is in violation of TOS because it tends to veer the conversation away from the case and instead onto the rules. Please note the underlined part of Sillybilly’s post above that directs where to ask such questions.

Thanks for your efforts to post within the TOS we all agreed to when we joined Websleuths.

 

[GeorgiaRai]

Whether it's true or fabricated, I think the parents have presented a plausible scenario.

If the last day of school before winter break was 12/18, 12/19 would be a good time for a visit to grandma's - a fun change of pace for the 4 older kids. (Keeping the younger two home makes absolute sense to me for many reasons, several of which have already been discussed.) Making a shopping stop en route also seems reasonable with Christmas coming up. Taking 6 kids on an outing isn't unusual when you have 6 kids! The older 4 are dropped off, and the fam returns home.

The babies have less to do without the older kids around. Dad goes to collect some kindling, which takes him in & out of the house, and in & out of the yard. The boys ask to play on the back porch; Mom uses the opportunity to get some wrapping done. Between all the in & out, Dad loses track of time until it occurs to him he doesn't see/hear the boys. His first instinct/hope is that they're close by, so he checks the yard & house before doing a quick search around the block - feeling the confusion/denial/fear many of us have felt when we can't lay eyes on our child but still have to believe they are safe and nearby. Not finding them in the immediate vicinity, he returns home & calls 911.

I think it all COULD be true, and, for me, nothing so far (tinted windows, face masks, crossed arms, lack of public appearances, the word "rambunctious", not releasing photos to the media, staying quiet, etc. etc.) rises to the level of evidence that the parents are abusive, violent or guilty. That evidence may well come out, but for now, it's the single fact that the boys are gone that raises suspicion.

It's possible the boys never made it to CalCity, but that's a long time to hide their absence, and a long time for the other kids to keep the secret (though admittedly easier in the days of COVID). I lean toward thinking that an incident occurred after the older kids left, possibly the night of 12/19. I think both boys likely suffered the same fate, which leads me more toward an Andrea Yates scenario than, say, a Patsy Ramsey, and pondering the lengths a husband might go to protect a wife.

Guilty or innocent, I think staying out of the public eye is a wise choice for them.

JMO

 

[Rachelj1]

Whether it's true or fabricated, I think the parents have presented a plausible scenario.

If the last day of school before winter break was 12/18, 12/19 would be a good time for a visit to grandma's - a fun change of pace for the 4 older kids. (Keeping the younger two home makes absolute sense to me for many reasons, several of which have already been discussed.) Making a shopping stop en route also seems reasonable with Christmas coming up. Taking 6 kids on an outing isn't unusual when you have 6 kids! The older 4 are dropped off, and the fam returns home.

The babies have less to do without the older kids around. Dad goes to collect some kindling, which takes him in & out of the house, and in & out of the yard. The boys ask to play on the back porch; Mom uses the opportunity to get some wrapping done. Between all the in & out, Dad loses track of time until it occurs to him he doesn't see/hear the boys. His first instinct/hope is that they're close by, so he checks the yard & house before doing a quick search around the block - feeling the confusion/denial/fear many of us have felt when we can't lay eyes on our child but still have to believe they are safe and nearby. Not finding them in the immediate vicinity, he returns home & calls 911.

I think it all COULD be true, and, for me, nothing so far (tinted windows, face masks, crossed arms, lack of public appearances, the word "rambunctious", not releasing photos to the media, staying quiet, etc. etc.) rises to the level of evidence that the parents are abusive, violent or guilty. That evidence may well come out, but for now, it's the single fact that the boys are gone that raises suspicion.

It's possible the boys never made it to CalCity, but that's a long time to hide their absence, and a long time for the other kids to keep the secret (though admittedly easier in the days of COVID). I lean toward thinking that an incident occurred after the older kids left, possibly the night of 12/19. I think both boys likely suffered the same fate, which leads me more toward an Andrea Yates scenario than, say, a Patsy Ramsey, and pondering the lengths a husband might go to protect a wife.

Guilty or innocent, I think staying out of the public eye is a wise choice for them.

JMO

It is possible the camera didn’t catch the 2 little ones, and only showed the 4 in line to the van. I do not feel though this is a sudden mom loses it scenario . I truly feel they have some hidden evil tendencies and I think it will eventually all come to light . Actually what’s done in the dark always comes to light IMO .
Moo

 

[Hexe]

The babies have less to do without the older kids around. Dad goes to collect some kindling, which takes him in & out of the house, and in & out of the yard. The boys ask to play on the back porch; Mom uses the opportunity to get some wrapping done. Between all the in & out, Dad loses track of time until it occurs to him he doesn't see/hear the boys.

Well, that's not exactly TW's story. TW said he was throwing the wood over the fence, without going out&in repeatedly.

 

[mickey2942]

Not judging the parents, but I have spent more energy looking for a lost dog than these folks have trying to find two children.

 

[Skillz]

Whether it's true or fabricated, I think the parents have presented a plausible scenario.

If the last day of school before winter break was 12/18, 12/19 would be a good time for a visit to grandma's - a fun change of pace for the 4 older kids. (Keeping the younger two home makes absolute sense to me for many reasons, several of which have already been discussed.) Making a shopping stop en route also seems reasonable with Christmas coming up. Taking 6 kids on an outing isn't unusual when you have 6 kids! The older 4 are dropped off, and the fam returns home.

The babies have less to do without the older kids around. Dad goes to collect some kindling, which takes him in & out of the house, and in & out of the yard. The boys ask to play on the back porch; Mom uses the opportunity to get some wrapping done. Between all the in & out, Dad loses track of time until it occurs to him he doesn't see/hear the boys. His first instinct/hope is that they're close by, so he checks the yard & house before doing a quick search around the block - feeling the confusion/denial/fear many of us have felt when we can't lay eyes on our child but still have to believe they are safe and nearby. Not finding them in the immediate vicinity, he returns home & calls 911.

Touching on this timeline, it’s always been in the back of my mind that the parents were possibly drinking or partying and lost track of time—AND the boys. Say they sent the boys outside at noon instead of 4PM—maybe they were picked up or wandered off. It would be interesting to review all of the neighbors surveillance footage over the period of a week or so. Some of the verbiage the dad uses point to neglect (possibly guilt but not necessarily).

 

[MsBetsy]

Well, that's not exactly TW's story. TW said he was throwing the wood over the fence, without going out&in repeatedly.

He said, "I'm throwing wood, bringing it inside the house..." so I think he did give the impression he was going back and forth. Imo

 

[rosesfromangels]

He said, "I'm throwing wood, bringing it inside the house..." so I think he did give the impression he was going back and forth. Imo

From what I could tell from the visuals I saw, it would be more accurate for him to have said "throwing twigs, or gathering kindling".

Amateur opinion and speculatioon

 

[rosesfromangels]

Not judging the parents, but I have spent more energy looking for a lost dog than these folks have trying to find two children.

It would seem so from the outside looking in. However, we don't know their intellectual capacities; perhaps this was the best they thought to do. Hard to say.

Amateur opinion and speculation

 

[MsBetsy]

Touching on this timeline, it’s always been in the back of my mind that the parents were possibly drinking or partying and lost track of time—AND the boys. Say they sent the boys outside at noon instead of 4PM—maybe they were picked up or wandered off. It would be interesting to review all of the neighbors surveillance footage over the period of a week or so. Some of the verbiage the dad uses point to neglect (possibly guilt but not necessarily).

That's a good point. The dad initially said the boys went missing around 4:30 or 5:00, but police were not called until 5:45. If they really wandered off around 4:00 it would have been more believable that they got lost or picked up by someone. Imo

 

[MsBetsy]

From what I could tell from the visuals I saw, it would be more accurate for him to have said "throwing twigs, or gathering kindling".

Amateur opinion and speculatioon

Yes, I would have called it kindling, but then again I have 30 years experience with fireplaces and woodburning stoves. Maybe this was the first house they owned with a fireplace.

 

[Ontario Mom]

Not judging the parents, but I have spent more energy looking for a lost dog than these folks have trying to find two children.

That's just the thing though, not one of us have any idea what these parents have or have not done since those boys were reported missing.
Just because we haven't seen media coverage of them, doesn't mean they're not doing anything.

Until LE name them as suspects or charge them, and because WS is a victim/family friendly forum, I'm going to keep giving them the benefit of the doubt.

jmo

 

[Rachelj1]

Also the chief publicly stated That they were offered lie detector tests. He left it at that he did not say they took them in past. So I’m gonna go with my instinct on this one from previous cases and how LE has handled those situations, and say they refused it. So my question is if they did refuse it, why?
TW said himself he said they can come in search whatever, rule them out so to me that sounds like he would be more than willing to take a test?
moo

 

[Rachelj1]

Not judging the parents, but I have spent more energy looking for a lost dog than these folks have trying to find two children.

I have too!!!! JW did not even go outside.

 

[MoeInVA]

Touching on this timeline, it’s always been in the back of my mind that the parents were possibly drinking or partying and lost track of time—AND the boys. Say they sent the boys outside at noon instead of 4PM—maybe they were picked up or wandered off. It would be interesting to review all of the neighbors surveillance footage over the period of a week or so. Some of the verbiage the dad uses point to neglect (possibly guilt but not necessarily).

Here is why I do not think it is the case that the boys just went missing earlier that day and they fibbed about the timeline: law enforcement shut down search and rescue.

Before shutting down search and rescue, I am confident that LE considered the possibility that the boys had gone missing earlier in the day. To shut down the search so quickly (it was shut down by Tuesday AM), they must have been very, very confident that the kids did not wander off that day. I assume that they had much more evidence than we know of to make that conclusion, but that probably includes at minimum multiple surveillance videos showing no children departing from the home and no one entering and taking children from the home. The chief did say in one of the early media hits that there was no evidence of the kids wandering off or anyone entering to take them. That's why the chief has repeatedly said he has remained focus on the Cal City home. At this point it seems to me they have worked hard to eliminate the Cal City home and yard (he said they searched everywhere possible - including chimney etc, dug up the yard, now used GPR on the yard, dogs etc.).

So if Cal City home is eliminated, what next?

All JMO

 

[Rachelj1]

Here is why I do not think it is the case that the boys just went missing earlier that day and they fibbed about the timeline: law enforcement shut down search and rescue.

Before shutting down search and rescue, I am confident that LE considered the possibility that the boys had gone missing earlier in the day. To shut down the search so quickly (it was shut down by Tuesday AM), they must have been very, very confident that the kids did not wander off that day. I assume that they had much more evidence than we know of to make that conclusion, but that probably includes at minimum multiple surveillance videos showing no children departing from the home and no one entering and taking children from the home. The chief did say in one of the early media hits that there was no evidence of the kids wandering off or anyone entering to take them. That's why the chief has repeatedly said he has remained focus on the Cal City home. At this point it seems to me they have worked hard to eliminate the Cal City home and yard (he said they searched everywhere possible - including chimney etc, dug up the yard, now used GPR on the yard, dogs etc.).

So if Cal City home is eliminated, what next?

All JMO

If they stop focusing on the California city home, I would assume they would probably start going to other homes in the immediate family.

I completely agree with you I think the chief knows that they did not wonder off and nobody picked them up.

moo