Still Missing CA - Orson & Orrin West (3&4), California City, 21 Dec 2020 #6 *both parents arrested/charged*

[TLobo]

I agree. It burns me up that they were literally paid to take care of these boys. There were free health benefits for them, too. It saddens me that BPD has to ask the public if they have had any doctor's visits in the past year or so. How often would toddlers be expected to go to the doctor - is it once a year or every six months ?

RSBM, BBM, and in my experience as a mom of toddlers/preschoolers - If nothing else is going on, health or development-wise, well-checks are annual starting at age 2. Dental visits are also advised to start at 2 (some say earlier, some say later - our dentist prefers age 3). Some kids are at the pediatrician more frequently for ear infections, strep throat, etc. etc.

I have no way of knowing O&O's specifics and don't want to make assumptions, but in my experience working with toddlers in CPS/foster placement and who had been adopted out of foster situations, kids with early childhood trauma (including being removed from the care of their parents, neglect, other sources of stress in early childhood) are seeing medical, developmental, or behavioral health professionals more frequently than their same-age peers who have not experienced such trauma. Sleep studies, appointments regarding drug or FASD concerns, attachment issues, additional dental work due to having been left with a bottle in their mouth to rot teeth, developmental delays...again, I'm NOT saying that these 2 little guys needed any additional support like that, but those appointments are, IMO, more likely to be a part of life for little ones who have been adopted after being removed from parental custody by CPS. MOO, again.

 

[MoeInVA]

RSBM, BBM, and in my experience as a mom of toddlers/preschoolers - If nothing else is going on, health or development-wise, well-checks are annual starting at age 2. Dental visits are also advised to start at 2 (some say earlier, some say later - our dentist prefers age 3). Some kids are at the pediatrician more frequently for ear infections, strep throat, etc. etc.

I have no way of knowing O&O's specifics and don't want to make assumptions, but in my experience working with toddlers in CPS/foster placement and who had been adopted out of foster situations, kids with early childhood trauma (including being removed from the care of their parents, neglect, other sources of stress in early childhood) are seeing medical, developmental, or behavioral health professionals more frequently than their same-age peers who have not experienced such trauma. Sleep studies, appointments regarding drug or FASD concerns, attachment issues, additional dental work due to having been left with a bottle in their mouth to rot teeth, developmental delays...again, I'm NOT saying that these 2 little guys needed any additional support like that, but those appointments are, IMO, more likely to be a part of life for little ones who have been adopted after being removed from parental custody by CPS. MOO, again.

Agreed. IME, doctors try to schedule annual check ups around the child’s birthday so they can check against age milestones and track year over year growth etc.

As I recall the boys had summer birthdays (June and august?) so I would have expected each to have at least one doctor visit in the six months before they went missing if receiving the typical recommended care. JMO

 

[TLobo]

Agreed. IME, doctors try to schedule annual check ups around the child’s birthday so they can check against age milestones and track year over year growth etc.

As I recall the boys had summer birthdays (June and august?) so I would have expected each to have at least one doctor visit in the six months before they went missing if receiving the typical recommended care. JMO

This also makes me wonder if any of their other 4 boys had been seen by a doctor/dentist/etc. - you can blame Covid concerns if you delay all of your kids' appointments until things are a little more stable, but it's a little harder to do so if 4 of your kids got to go to appointments while the other 2 didn't.

 

[OverTheRhine]

Not just rambunctious, but remember, they also liked to wrestle. This has been telling since that press conference. Your two kids are missing, possibly kidnapped, and you're talking about how they're rambunctious and like to wrestle. This is absolutely 100% them trying to explain away any neglect or abuse once they are exposed. I've said it since the beginning, that entire interview is TW on the defensive, like he's being interrogated inside his head.

 

[tatertot]

Anyone else have any ideas on what might be curious enough for the LE to remove it from their home in paper evidence bags?

RSBM. In addition to the items MoeInVA mentioned, maybe the family stored some belongings at the grandparents' house during the move to CC? If said belongings still hadn't been picked up by December and they were things the boys would have used frequently and there were no replacements for them at the CC house, that would be unexpected.

For example, it was mentioned the boys were last seen wearing sweats, but were any other cold-weather clothes in their current sizes (3T and 4T, maybe?) found at their CC house?

 

[kshultz06082]

Agreed. IME, doctors try to schedule annual check ups around the child’s birthday so they can check against age milestones and track year over year growth etc.

As I recall the boys had summer birthdays (June and august?) so I would have expected each to have at least one doctor visit in the six months before they went missing if receiving the typical recommended care. JMO

Hmmm... the boys birthdays.... not a single birthday picture? Even with covid and not having real birthday parties, I would expect to see pictures of them with their gifts from the parents or of them blowing out a candle on a cupcake.... nothing, huh? Most recent pic is over a year old.... Interesting. JMO

 

[rosesfromangels]

This photo has always bothered me a great deal, despite the kindly look of the older gentleman. I can't get past the look on the face of the boys...it haunts me, and (for me) speaks volumes.
Source of photo: Family of missing toddlers speaks out, says they're public targets

Amateur opinion and speculation

 

[MoeInVA]

So now I’m antsy for possible Q and A with BPD Monday. So anyone want to join me in some wishlist questions?
-Have you been able to verify that Orrin and Orson were alive in December 2020 prior to the missing persons report the 21st? .... If so, did they appear well?
- Was this the first search of the Potomac Ave grandparents’ residence?
- Has the other grandmother’s home been searched?
- To aid in getting sightings from the last year, have you considered updating the missing poster to include newer pictures of the boys and photos of the vehicle they travelled in?
- Have you located any photos of O and O from the last year? ... Did the parents have more recent pics of their other children?
- Are there any persons who you would like to interview in this case but have refused to do so or you have been unable to locate?
- Are all of the grandparents forthcoming and cooperating in this case?
-Are the parents cooperating?
- Do you have any reason to believe that O and O travelled out of Kern County in the last year? In other words are there are other cities, states, countries of particular interest where you would like to see more publicity with regards to any possible sightings of the boys?
-Can you confirm whether or not there were any foster children in O and O’s household in the year before they were reported missing?
- Were there any social worker visits or reports of concern about the West household in the last year?

 

[NCHydrangea]

Great news that there appears to have been some movement. I’d rather see some cuffs move to someone’s wrists, but I’ll take it.

 

[Limecat]

If it turns out that the grandparents knew AND helped I’m going to lose my mind. This is insane.

I’m right there with you. I just can’t.

 

[Limecat]

So now I’m antsy for possible Q and A with BPD Monday. So anyone want to join me in some wishlist questions?
-Have you been able to verify that Orrin and Orson were alive in December 2020 prior to the missing persons report the 21st? .... If so, did they appear well?
- Was this the first search of the Potomac Ave grandparents’ residence?
- Has the other grandmother’s home been searched?
- To aid in getting sightings from the last year, have you considered updating the missing poster to include newer pictures of the boys and photos of the vehicle they travelled in?
- Have you located any photos of O and O from the last year? ... Did the parents have more recent pics of their other children?
- Are there any persons who you would like to interview in this case but have refused to do so or you have been unable to locate?
- Are all of the grandparents forthcoming and cooperating in this case?
-Are the parents cooperating?
- Do you have any reason to believe that O and O travelled out of Kern County in the last year? In other words are there are other cities, states, countries of particular interest where you would like to see more publicity with regards to any possible sightings of the boys?
-Can you confirm whether or not there were any foster children in O and O’s household in the year before they were reported missing?
- Were there any social worker visits or reports of concern about the West household in the last year?

to add

Have the AP or other family members retained an attorney?
Have the AP or other family members taken or refused to take a polygraph?
Is there valid reason to believe the older children’s claims they last saw O and O on Dec 19 2020?
What is the date the grandmother reported last seeing O and O?
Have there been any CPS or home checks by other agencies in the past year?
Was one scheduled to happen around Christmas 2020?


Just random thoughts. MOO

 

[Teche]

The Bakersfield search at the grandparents home is this the maternal or the paternal side?

 

[Knox]

The Bakersfield search at the grandparents home is this the maternal or the paternal side?

Paternal. We've never seen or heard from the maternal grandparents in MSM.

 

[mickey2942]

I'm grateful they used "rambunctious" because that word alone gives me an impression of the kids behavior and personalities and it kinda sinks the "escaped out the gate" narrative. Has anyone here ever seen 2 quiet rambunctious kids? IF (big IF) the kids ran out the gate, one would be chasing the other, they would be giggling and running around in circles. In other words, they would be loud and running around in no particular direction thru wide open lots... so, if that happened, and TW was only inside for a moment, they would have been easily found by following the sounds of their loud, high pitched, childlike giggles and squeals... or just by looking and seeing 2 little kids roughhousing, playing tag with each other, etc... these are 3 and 4 year old kids, they didn't plan their own disappearance. To them, they would have just been outside having fun not thinking about danger or hiding from people.

Of course, others will argue that they could have been abducted... really tho? In the moment that TW went inside, an abductor just happened to show up and managed to wrangle 2 RAMBUNCTIOUS kids into a car without the kids making a peep all while not knowing how quickly TW would be back outside? That seems VERY risky on the abductors part. Jmo

The word RAMBUNCTIOUS to me, destroys any theory in my mind that something happened not involving the AP. I think the boys were rambunctious because 3 and 4 year olds are rambunctious. Where the rambunctiousness becomes a problem is when it irritates someone in the home... like, maybe someone with PTSD or a drinking problem that just wants these rambunctious kids to be quiet or sit still or stop bugging them with their toddler needs... I'm just saying... jmo

I would love to hear others thoughts along these lines.

I used to teach Special Education preschool, children with disabilities are eligible at age 3. Many of the kids in my classroom were developmentally delayed, with extreme hyperactivity, and lack of any social skills. Often, due to a combination of exposure to drugs in utero, and lack of bonding/care and severe neglect.

A lot of the kids in my class, didn't even know how to play quietly. They were always running around, grabbing stuff randomly. Some of the kids were still with their birth parents, who were struggling, and dealing with a child that was highly challenging.

I am actually surprised that these two were placed in a home with four other children. A parent who has four other boys, doesn't have the time to deal with two small boys who may have a need for more attention.

As evidenced by the fact that, the parents lost track of where the boys went...

 

[Lusitana]

This photo has always bothered me a great deal, despite the kindly look of the older gentleman. I can't get past the look on the face of the boys...it haunts me, and (for me) speaks volumes.
Source of photo: Family of missing toddlers speaks out, says they're public targets

Amateur opinion and speculation

Same here. They always look so sad and tense on pictures, and that one is the worse, I just can’t even think about it.

 

[UKslueth2018]

Same here. They always look so sad and tense on pictures, and that one is the worse, I just can’t even think about it.

Woah I didn’t realise how much emotion you could feel from a picture.. those little ones look haunted with no light in their eyes old guy seems happy enough but those boys..

Where are these two little ones??

 

[Chocoholic]

I'm trying to come up with sensible reasons LE might search my house if my grandkids went missing (God forbid).

When the grandkids are here for spending the day or a bbq or birthday party, etc., there are toys and games (indoor and outdoor) to keep them entertained but realistically, that's about it. I can't come up with a single thing LE might be interested in, in my house, as it pertains to the grandkids.

Anyone else have any ideas on what might be curious enough for the LE to remove it from their home in paper evidence bags?

Great question! I suppose the answer would lie in the warrant itself. Thanks to my fellow WS’ers, I’ve learned that search warrants are for specific items. Not a clue here. I learn so much from y’all and don’t feel like I have much to add. I just appreciate being a voice for those who can no longer speak. I pray that something gives in this case soon. My heart breaks daily for these boys. I’ve got my mom vested as well. She asks for updates daily.

 

[Chocoholic]

RSBM, BBM, and in my experience as a mom of toddlers/preschoolers - If nothing else is going on, health or development-wise, well-checks are annual starting at age 2. Dental visits are also advised to start at 2 (some say earlier, some say later - our dentist prefers age 3). Some kids are at the pediatrician more frequently for ear infections, strep throat, etc. etc.

I have no way of knowing O&O's specifics and don't want to make assumptions, but in my experience working with toddlers in CPS/foster placement and who had been adopted out of foster situations, kids with early childhood trauma (including being removed from the care of their parents, neglect, other sources of stress in early childhood) are seeing medical, developmental, or behavioral health professionals more frequently than their same-age peers who have not experienced such trauma. Sleep studies, appointments regarding drug or FASD concerns, attachment issues, additional dental work due to having been left with a bottle in their mouth to rot teeth, developmental delays...again, I'm NOT saying that these 2 little guys needed any additional support like that, but those appointments are, IMO, more likely to be a part of life for little ones who have been adopted after being removed from parental custody by CPS. MOO, again.

I can’t think of anyone I’ve known with children at those ages who only went for yearly checkups. Hopefully LE are aware of last doctor’s visits.

 

[ChatteringBirds]

I can’t think of anyone I’ve known with children at those ages who only went for yearly checkups. Hopefully LE are aware of last doctor’s visits.

I think it's possible a younger child would have no need to go to the Pediatrician often, if home-schooled and not exposed to other children outside the home. During lockdown/ homeschooling, suddenly there were no illnesses in our home, compared to the frequent illnesses when the children are in school. It was very noticeable, for us anyway, how well social distancing worked .
And I think O & O and siblings were pretty isolated.
BUT yes, they should have had their yearly appointments around their birthdays and at least one dentist visit annually. And it will be interesting to hear when a professional last saw either boy.
All statements IMO.

 

[Lusitana]

I keep wondering if the kids, all of them, weren’t actually homeschooled prior to the pandemic and they were just keeping them at home since March of last year, or if they have always been homeschooled.