Still Missing CA - Orson & Orrin West (3&4), California City, 21 Dec 2020

[legalmomma]

Has there been any report of when the children were last seen, other than the parents?

 

[10ofRods]

And look at you. A stable person as your parents raised you to be.

Thank you! Exactly! (Stable as I can be).

I am now in regular contact with my bio-mom, and trust me, if she had raised me, I think I would be much more of a mess than I am. She had just turned 16 when I was born, my bio-dad was 17, their parents were in an uproar and, well, both families are much more...chaotic than the one in which I was raised. I have certain character traits that my real parents knew how to address, the way normal, loving parents do. They were not perfect parents, but for the era and place in which I was raised, they were extraordinary parents, devoted to me and to having a happy family life.

My heart always goes out to foster children and adoptees, it's so hard. I was only a couple of months old at the time, but I still think it matters. I think my adoptive parents were amazing with kids, they loved and bonded with so many nieces, nephews, my friends, etc.

But not all adoptive parents are like that.

I am wondering if anyone connected to these children in the past snatched them. The disappearance being in such close proximity to Xmas makes me wonder this. Emotions run high during the holidays, and perhaps someone made an impetuous decision.

This is a wild card theory, but I can't help but hang on to the hope that they will still be found alive...against the odds.
Prayers continued

Amateur opinion and speculation

This is what I'm hoping. There's a child in my life whose mother had custody terminated by the courts in California (she remained with her amazing father, who has been there for her from birth). Every year at this time, her mother (if not in jail) reaches out and it is so distressing. At this point, he makes sure that Bio Mom doesn't know where he lives. If Bio Mom were more focused, she could figure it out, though. The little girl doesn't know her Bio Mom very well (which is good), but naturally wants to see her mom.

If someone appeared to Orson and Orrin, perhaps calling them by their older names, it would be easy to lure them away...I hope this is what happened, because the other alternatives are so bleak.

 

[Peppery]

Still nothing on these babies? I can’t help but think what are the chances that they wandered away and both are still missing and together.

 

[Dawookie]

Still nothing on these babies? I can’t help but think what are the chances that they wandered away and both are still missing and together.

There's been nothing but there's probably a statement coming soon. I think the chances they wandered away together are slim and none based on what we know. The dog not hitting outside the house is a pretty big thing

 

[rosesfromangels]

There's been nothing but there's probably a statement coming soon. I think the chances they wandered away together are slim and none based on what we know. The dog not hitting outside the house is a pretty big thing

Huge fan of SAR dogs, but results vary depending on the dog, the handler, their training and so forth. They are amazing, but not infallible.

Amateur opinion and speculation

 

[Dawookie]

Huge fan of SAR dogs, but results vary depending on the dog, the handler, their training and so forth. They are amazing, but not infallible.

Amateur opinion and speculation

I understand they're not infallible but to not hit outside at all where the kids supposedly were?

 

[rosesfromangels]

I understand they're not infallible but to not hit outside at all where the kids supposedly were?

Agree that it is a notable concern.
That being said, I am not ATM convinced the adoptive parents are involved in any way. They could well be labeled careless, but I have nothing to point to criminal.

I sure hope I'm right on this one. I'm still holding on to a shred of hope that some misguided adult has scooped them up and will come to their senses and drop them off at a fire station, or similar location.

Praying....praying....praying.

Amateur opinion and speculation (but all-pro prayer warrior!)

 

[vickjul]

As mom to a "rambunctious" little boy, I don't find it impossible to believe that the kids wandered away. But I cannot understand why, especially in an area full of environmental hazards, they would not call law enforcment immediately.

Our 4-year-old slipped out of the house one time while I was getting laundry out of the garage and his dad was in the bathroom. As soon as I walked back into the family room and saw that he was no longer painting with his sisters, we had an all-hands-on-deck alert. We spent at most 3-5 minutes doing a cursory check of bedrooms, closets, fenced back yard, unfenced front yard, etc., then called 911 and started beating on neighbors' doors to ask for help.

We knew that several neighbors had swimming pools, that there was a busy road just a couple of blocks away, and that time was NOT on our side. Our only concern in that moment was finding him before tragedy struck, and we wanted as many people as possible helping us do that.

Thankfully, we found our little one safe (albeit terrified because he'd crawled into our next-door neighbor's new car and gotten himself trapped by their child safety locks) before police ever arrived. Then, we installed loud door alarms and security cameras. ;-)

 

[Luckyzmom]

Great post @vickjul thanks for the insight and welcome to WS !
It's easy to loose track of toddlers just for a moment. That fear and pannick never is too far in the back of our minds. Gives me chills every missing child case we try to help with here.
Wish I had better feelings about these sweet little boys. They are in my Prayers MOO

 

[Gibbo214]

Huge fan of SAR dogs, but results vary depending on the dog, the handler, their training and so forth. They are amazing, but not infallible.

Amateur opinion and speculation

But what are the chances that a 3 and 4 year old would be out by themselves for a week without being seen?

 

[Warwick7]

But what are the chances that a 3 and 4 year old would be out by themselves for a week without being seen?

Bam!!!
Exactly!!

 

[rosesfromangels]

But what are the chances that a 3 and 4 year old would be out by themselves for a week without being seen?

Agree it is highly unlikely they would have survived long on their own. It is my hope they were scooped up by someone related to them. That would be a criminal act, but at least they would be amongst the living.

amateur opinion and speculation

 

[Ontario Mom]

As mom to a "rambunctious" little boy, I don't find it impossible to believe that the kids wandered away. But I cannot understand why, especially in an area full of environmental hazards, they would not call law enforcment immediately.

RSBM

From all accounts in MSM so far, it was around 5pm when the dad was outside gathering wood, then when the boys were noticed missing, the parents searched in the house, back outside, around the neighborhood and then placed the 911 call around 6pm.
To me, there is nothing suspect about the time of the 911 call, as reported.

 

[hparker36]

To my ears, in that clip, I was hearing "where are the boys?"
Makes me wonder, in such a small community and likely quite tight knit, how the adoptive parents were generally perceived.

I am wondering how they were perceived in their prior community as well. Is there any feedback from family members, friends, co workers, neighbors?

 

[amayla]

There is so much empty land out in California City. There are so many blocks and streets that never got developed and are just are empty desert land. I hope the LE has been searching all abandoned buildings in the area. I wish these boys were getting way more media attention.

 

[MojaveMave]

Search continues for missing boys Orrin and Orson West, reported missing Monday

"Lamiya Patrick, a California City resident also told 23ABC that the believed to be foster parents have not come out of the house besides to speak to law enforcement."

“He came out and spoke to the police but he did not come out and greet the people who are trying to help find the babies,” said Patrick.

“The parents haven’t come out to say boo, or hi, or thank you for helping or anything,” added Wood."

Out of curiosity...why SHOULD they? I mean, if they are private people and don't want all the attention, why are people expecting them to come out and thank them? People are outside their house chanting and yelling, and some of the things people are saying about them is just... horrible. I dunno, I probably wouldn't want to put myself out there to talk to people, either.

 

[MojaveMave]

There is so much empty land out in California City. There are so many blocks and streets that never got developed and are just are empty desert land. I hope the LE has been searching all abandoned buildings in the area. I wish these boys were getting way more media attention.

Plus, their home is on the eastern edge of town where it pretty much opens up to wide open desert. Seriously, in less than a few hundred feet east, it's pretty much wide open.

Keep in mind that this area is well known for its missing and murdered people, too. Sad, but true. There are a ton of unsolved murders. This video, from Dateline last year, talk about some of them. Pete Hammond's body was recently found, though, in the last month or two.

 

[10ofRods]

I understand they're not infallible but to not hit outside at all where the kids supposedly were?

I will say that dogs are more effective when there's moisture. It's very dry out there (I'm miles closer to the coast and we got down to 3% humidity where I live - which is unusual).

It's just very dry right now. I don't know the overall effect on dogs, but I know they do better in higher humidity.

I do agree it's very strange they didn't hit at all (but perhaps they didn't have a completely distinct sample to work from...but that usually results in a false positive, not a false negative. IMO).

RSBM

From all accounts in MSM so far, it was around 5pm when the dad was outside gathering wood, then when the boys were noticed missing, the parents searched in the house, back outside, around the neighborhood and then placed the 911 call around 6pm.
To me, there is nothing suspect about the time of the 911 call, as reported.

Nothing suspect about the time, to me - but the "gathering wood" part is really strange. IMO.

Mesquite twigs? Creosote bush fragments? I can only guess that's what is meant - there's no wood out there. I don't think there are any trees at all in that neighborhood (someone please correct me if you live in California City).

 

[Knox]

I have to believe CCPD & the FBI had good reason to excavate the back yard. In addition to whatever indication the dogs gave, there must be other information we are not privy too. Clearing the parents, which may include removing children from the home to interview, adults taking a LDT, seizing their cell phones/electronic devices, vehicle, etc., is one thing.

Getting a search warrant, bringing in lights and digging around in the back yard at night, is a whole other level, IMO.

 

[Dawookie]

I will say that dogs are more effective when there's moisture. It's very dry out there (I'm miles closer to the coast and we got down to 3% humidity where I live - which is unusual).

It's just very dry right now. I don't know the overall effect on dogs, but I know they do better in higher humidity.

I do agree it's very strange they didn't hit at all (but perhaps they didn't have a completely distinct sample to work from...but that usually results in a false positive, not a false negative. IMO).



Nothing suspect about the time, to me - but the "gathering wood" part is really strange. IMO.

Mesquite twigs? Creosote bush fragments? I can only guess that's what is meant - there's no wood out there. I don't think there are any trees at all in that neighborhood (someone please correct me if you live in California City).

I didn't know that about the dogs getting better results with higher humidity. Looking at the weather records, the only one I could find that showed humidity, showed that humidity was 22% the night they had the dog out there. It was kind of up and down the whole week.

Yeah watching the videos, it doesn't appear there's any wood outside the fence unless it was a small pile and he moved it all.

Edit: on another note who would keep firewood outside their yard? That makes zero sense to me