Identified! CA - Out-of-town family finds unidentified body in freezer of home they were staying at - Dec 23, 2023 - Mary Margaret Haxby-Jones

Welcome to Websleuths!
Click to learn how to make a missing person's thread

DNA Solves
DNA Solves
DNA Solves
Do you have any news articles indicating an elder-death where someone "fell in" a freezer? Not aimed just at you - others keep saying this.

I live in California and try to follow crime news here. But really? Are there cases of someone falling into a chest freezer (the height of which must be slightly more than 33" tall - and that's been in place for a very long time - I want to say, since the 50's when child deaths per freezer - although rare - brought California to strict rules).

It is likely to be one of the homeowners/dwellers in the freezer, because it would be odd if some stranger came in and put themselves in a freezer (almost impossible to close/lock from the inside - as, well, California doesn't allow locks on chest freezers, plus, any adult except a very very short one can use their legs to open the freezer). Air is all that is immediately needed for life.

But this person died (and decomposed) inside a freezer. It's possible that the faint odor of decomp led their children/grandchildren/family members to open the lid. It's also possible the visiting family found the body without any suspicion.

Usually, when bodies are placed in freezers, it's with the goal of slowing decomp, so as to throw off LE as to time of death.

So, this "she fell into a freezer" thing is strange to me and I'd like to see someone sleuth that. When has that happened??

IMO. Speculation. Questioning.
I fell into my freezer once.

I’m quite short. I was trying to reach something at the very bottom and while balancing and feet off the ground, I fell in!

It was hard to get out because all the weight was forward. I couldn’t get out. I had to scream for help to get someone to pull me out. Lol

I don’t think that’s what happened here but it is possible.
 
I fell into my freezer once.

I’m quite short. I was trying to reach something at the very bottom and while balancing and feet off the ground, I fell in!

It was hard to get out because all the weight was forward. I couldn’t get out. I had to scream for help to get someone to pull me out. Lol

I don’t think that’s what happened here but it is
Oh my word! Omg! How horrifying! And scary!
So… let me ask you this…. would it have been possible for you to have fallen in AND then the lid shut, all on its own?
I’m Just trying to figure this strange situation out! TIA for your input!
 
Oh my word! Omg! How horrifying! And scary!
So… let me ask you this…. would it have been possible for you to have fallen in AND then the lid shut, all on its own?
I’m Just trying to figure this strange situation out! TIA for your input!
Since suffocation is the cause of death in these cases, if someone fell in and the lid closed so tightly they could not get it open -- or panicked and did not THINK to prop the lid up (a shoe or piece of clothing, something in the freezer; it's possible there were few choices to prop the lid open) would a very frail person be able to survive?
 
I fell into my freezer once.

I’m quite short. I was trying to reach something at the very bottom and while balancing and feet off the ground, I fell in!

It was hard to get out because all the weight was forward. I couldn’t get out. I had to scream for help to get someone to pull me out. Lol

I don’t think that’s what happened here but it is possible.

Thank you for this! I did think of my aunt, who was very short and extremely determined - I could see her toppling in. The thing is, of course, as you say, you would be head down, unable to use legs to get out. And had you not been aided, I suppose you might have ended up entirely in the freezer - but with no way to close the thing. Chest freezers don't usually have vacuum seals (I've never been able to find one), and a struggling person would surely yell and kick.

Even if somehow the entire person ended up inside (still unable to sit up or get out), the posture of the body would not be one of repose. Hopefully there will be clues that the ME has already interpreted. We of course know nothing about these details.

Typical home chest freezer is 33-36" tall (subtract 3-4 inches for the lid) and 54-60" long (subtract 6-8 inches for the interior dimensions). If no one had helped you, I suspect you would have ended up (very uncomfortable) inside the freezer. You would have had a chance at self-rescue once fully inside, I think.

So it is possible - esp. if the freezer had only one or two items in it, at the bottom. If there were signs of cleaning going on, I'd be more inclined to put this theory higher. But if the body was stretched out length-wise or in a fetal position, I am more skeptical - because people falling into freezers do not then lay down inside the freezer (unless suicidal - closing the lid on themselves - a very peculiar way of accomplishing suicide, IMO).

Anyway, sounds as if the freezer may have been out of operation in this scenario. But I'm sure the Coroner and Medical Examiner can figure out whether this was an unusual slip and fall.

And I learned something - never stand on tiptoe to get everything out of a chest freezer! (We have one of those pincer thingies, inherited from my parents). Probably shouldn't be leaning on tiptoes, myself, to do anything!

IMO
 
It is some time since we had a chest freezer, but I think depending on how precariously the lid balanced when open, it could be possible to accidentally kick it while struggling and have it fall closed. But, do we know that the lid was closed? It could be that the person suffered an unrelated medical episode which meant they were unable to get themselves out.
 
It is some time since we had a chest freezer, but I think depending on how precariously the lid balanced when open, it could be possible to accidentally kick it while struggling and have it fall closed. But, do we know that the lid was closed? It could be that the person suffered an unrelated medical episode which meant they were unable to get themselves out.
IIRC, the remains showed signs of advanced decompensation? If so, to believe an accident theory, we would have to believe no one missed the decedent, or went in to the freezer for anything in quite some time.
Seems improbable.

Amateur opinion and speculation
 
It is some time since we had a chest freezer, but I think depending on how precariously the lid balanced when open, it could be possible to accidentally kick it while struggling and have it fall closed. But, do we know that the lid was closed? It could be that the person suffered an unrelated medical episode which meant they were unable to get themselves out.

True, but locking chest freezers require a key (from the outside). I don't know of any that lock automatically when the lid closes (for just this reason - kids would be playing hide and seek in them). They have to be designed to safety standards. Of course, if someone was very weak and could not push up with their hands or feet, I suppose they could gradually run out of air. Seems very unlikely to me.

I believe the MSM articles state that the relatives "discovered" the body in the freezer. If the lid was open, then the entire area would be smelling of decomp, leading them straight to the body. MSM says the Homicide Unit is investigating, so there must be at least a suspicion that this isn't purely accidental. If the lid was open, then intent to conceal disappears from the facts of the case, and while an accident seems unlikely, it certainly would be on the table. The second article on this thread has this sentence:

The body is believed to be that of a female, though no further physical details could be confirmed due to the body’s frozen state.
To me, that says the freezer was shut (frozen state). I can think of a few scenarios for that, but the first that comes to my mind (given that the body had significant decomp) is that someone died in the house, someone else found them dead and decomposing, freaked out, put them in the freezer and fled to parts unknown, having no desire to be involved any further.

OTOH, maybe there were intermittent power outages, etc. A lot of different scenarios for investigators to try and figure out - starting with the identity of the deceased. I will be surprised if the deceased is not, in fact, a proper resident of the house and most likely the family member whom the out-of-towners had come to visit.

Such a strange case.
 
advanced decompensation
won't lie I laughed at this typo LOL i would make a typo like this!
True, but locking chest freezers require a key (from the outside). I don't know of any that lock automatically when the lid closes (for just this reason - kids would be playing hide and seek in them). They have to be designed to safety standards. Of course, if someone was very weak and could not push up with their hands or feet, I suppose they could gradually run out of air. Seems very unlikely to me.

I believe the MSM articles state that the relatives "discovered" the body in the freezer. If the lid was open, then the entire area would be smelling of decomp, leading them straight to the body. MSM says the Homicide Unit is investigating, so there must be at least a suspicion that this isn't purely accidental. If the lid was open, then intent to conceal disappears from the facts of the case, and while an accident seems unlikely, it certainly would be on the table. The second article on this thread has this sentence:


To me, that says the freezer was shut (frozen state). I can think of a few scenarios for that, but the first that comes to my mind (given that the body had significant decomp) is that someone died in the house, someone else found them dead and decomposing, freaked out, put them in the freezer and fled to parts unknown, having no desire to be involved any further.

OTOH, maybe there were intermittent power outages, etc. A lot of different scenarios for investigators to try and figure out - starting with the identity of the deceased. I will be surprised if the deceased is not, in fact, a proper resident of the house and most likely the family member whom the out-of-towners had come to visit.

Such a strange case.
I mean, if they fled... weird to have relatives coming for the holidays. The body is totally frozen and decomposed so it has been a WHILE. I wish we had more details about the family relationships.
 
...They have to be designed to safety standards. Of course, if someone was very weak and could not push up with their hands or feet, I suppose they could gradually run out of air. Seems very unlikely to me....
I don't think this happened and I have no idea how the freezer door could close if someone fell into it, but...

When someone on this thread described falling into their deep chest freezer while reaching down into it, I pictured what that might be like. I pictured head first going down then curling down on the neck area. Could a person break their neck the way they'd fall into it?
 
I don't think this happened and I have no idea how the freezer door could close if someone fell into it, but...

When someone on this thread described falling into their deep chest freezer while reaching down into it, I pictured what that might be like. I pictured head first going down then curling down on the neck area. Could a person break their neck the way they'd fall into it?

A frail person might break their neck. More likely, though, most people could suffer postural asphyxiation if they were upside down (for any reason) for more than 15-20 minutes. It's very hard to breathe if the body itself is pushing down on the lungs, etc.

If the neck was broken, that will be obvious to the ME. It would also significantly impact the posture of the deceased. And of course, that would make getting out nearly impossible or impossible.

I agree with you that in such a scenario, the victim is not going to close the lid on themselves.
 
I fell into my freezer once.

I’m quite short. I was trying to reach something at the very bottom and while balancing and feet off the ground, I fell in!

It was hard to get out because all the weight was forward. I couldn’t get out. I had to scream for help to get someone to pull me out. Lol

I don’t think that’s what happened here but it is possible.
I was going to say that I’ve done that, too! I fell into one (full of frozen fish ) in the kitchen of a restaurant where I worked. I can’t imagine if the lid had closed!
 
View attachment 470362 No, not ritzy, I would describe it as a middle-class neighborhood. Allied Gardens is a section of neighborhood that has a couple of Kaiser health care facilities and there's also a big Kaiser Hospital right on Zion Ave. There's lots of single family houses still, going up a slight hill, and a school right across from the freezer house.
View attachment 470360
Kaiser Hospital on Zion Ave.
View attachment 470359

Not a fact, but there's a few videos showing this house with the unique wall, so this may be the home of the freezer.
View attachment 470358

View attachment 470365 See, that house keeps showing up in pics on the news.

Mystery solved. It is a Kaiser patient that was waiting for their preauthorization.
 
Did the person fall into the freezer? How could the door come down and close? Why was the body apparently somewhat decomposed.

All these posts about chest freezers being dangerous made me think about it. There doesn't seem to be brace on the door.


Don't laugh, had to draw the idea using my mouse on the bottom photo. Those deep chest freezers look so deep for shorter people. Not sure it's efficient if you have to stack food.

Now, on the bottom pic, don't know if they make chest freezers like this, but they should. There must be a reason some people rather have a chest freezer instead of a standup freezer. Design below-- this way you get the chest freezer, the whole section on the top, but not too deep. On the bottom are two pull out freezer drawers.


1704170657353.png .....1704170710220.png

. . . 1704170194990.png . . .
 
Did the person fall into the freezer? How could the door come down and close? Why was the body apparently somewhat decomposed.

All these posts about chest freezers being dangerous made me think about it. There doesn't seem to be brace on the door.


Don't laugh, had to draw the idea using my mouse on the bottom photo. Those deep chest freezers look so deep for shorter people. Not sure it's efficient if you have to stack food.

Now, on the bottom pic, don't know if they make chest freezers like this, but they should. There must be a reason some people rather have a chest freezer instead of a standup freezer. Design below-- this way you get the chest freezer, the whole section on the top, but not too deep. On the bottom are two pull out freezer drawers.


View attachment 471522 .....View attachment 471523

. . . View attachment 471521 . . .
I'm wondering if it was an old freezer that maybe broke down at some point and the body began to decompose?Or a power outage? Good Lord I don't want to think any further, I've been a cleaner in my life and have seen enough to know :(

This is one reason they feature refrigerators with a bottom/side/drawer freezer these days but IMO the drawer models can be a hazard for small children/vulnerable people (I say vulnerable as in ppl unsteady on their feet, medication, living alone etc). Truthfully, anyone who has ever had a roast jump out of their freezer and land on them knows the hazards already. JMO.
 

Members online

Online statistics

Members online
77
Guests online
1,580
Total visitors
1,657

Forum statistics

Threads
606,416
Messages
18,203,267
Members
233,841
Latest member
toomanywomenmissinginbc
Back
Top