Found Deceased CA - Paul Miller, 51, Canadian missing in Joshua Tree Natl Park, San Bernardino Co., 13 Jul 2018 #2

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Dushi said:
The first time I have heard it was a comfortable temperature is above in his sister's comment.
For some reason , I was under the impression that it was very hot by that time of morning
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Here’s the link to the “Neil_witness” post from Thread 1, post #492, July 29: And he talks about the temperature being in high 90's by the time he finished hiking around 9:30am. Paul would have still been on his way out, maybe at the oasis by then. And not much shade. That's hot in my opinion, even if "it's a dry heat." jmo

CA - Paul Miller, 51, Canadian missing in Joshua Tree National Park, San Bernardino Co., 13 Jul 2018
 
neesaki said:
Oh my, apologies if my post came across as anything negative concerning the volunteers, I think it’s absolutely amazing that they’re doing this and find it very admirable. I only meant to point out that maybe they could use some help. Kudos and many thanks to them for their hard work and dedication.
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I didn't take it as negative at all. I think we both seem to be amazed at the robust nature of 80's searching in the blazing heat. My heroes!
 
What would it take to do a search with cadaver dogs now? Paul has been missing for two months. Would the arid climate mean that cadaver dogs might be less effective at this time?

I know there would still be issues with the terrain and potentially the heat. I still think he’s in the vicinity of the oasis / trail area, likely in an area that has been searched. I wish the family had a better support system or network in the area.
 
frisson said:
I will go ahead and say it. The trail witness seemed iffy to me. Sorry. I just felt something didn't ring true. and boom he's gone.
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Iffy as in he only posted to reinforce the idea that Paul was on the trail that day, or iffy as in he may have done something to Paul or iffy as in you think he was mistaken about who he saw?

My issue with Neil's account is that it doesn't match what has been reported in the media in two important ways.

#1 - He said he spoke with officials the very next day but for days the JTNP spokesperson said no one had seen him on the trail that day. Is this due to a breakdown in communication amongst the officials, or did Neil not speak with anyone until days/weeks later?

#2 - Neil said he saw Paul around 9:00, which is when Paul's wife says she last saw him at the hotel (and what has been reported in the media repeatedly). It's possible Neil saw someone else entirely.
 
Respectfully, the above post is why Neil is no longer participating on this thread or providing additional info. The guy got slammed.

It's wrong.
So sorry Neil. Thank you for trying to do the right thing.

Amateur opinion and speculation only.
 
I am not slamming Neil at all, but I DO think bringing up discrepancies is important. Neil may be the accurate one here---isn't it important to know if the media is not reporting this totally accurately? For instance the time. The wife saying she last saw him leave around 9 vs. Neil saying he was 2/3 of the way to the oasis at 9ish. That is a pretty large discrepancy. To be on the trail and 2/3 of the way to the oasis, he probably would have had to leave the hotel around, what? 815? 8? You figure in driving there plus hiking 2/3 of the way out. So if Neil is correct here, then why is the wife saying something else? Or where did the media get the timeline from if they are to blame? You know what I mean?

I think questioning the difference in info is important because one of the most vital parts of an investigation is an accurate timeline, and we seem to have two different timelines going on here.
 
MntnHiker said:
I am not slamming Neil at all, but I DO think bringing up discrepancies is important. Neil may be the accurate one here---isn't it important to know if the media is not reporting this totally accurately? For instance the time. The wife saying she last saw him leave around 9 vs. Neil saying he was 2/3 of the way to the oasis at 9ish. That is a pretty large discrepancy. To be on the trail and 2/3 of the way to the oasis, he probably would have had to leave the hotel around, what? 815? 8? You figure in driving there plus hiking 2/3 of the way out. So if Neil is correct here, then why is the wife saying something else? Or where did the media get the timeline from if they are to blame? You know what I mean?

I think questioning the difference in info is important because one of the most vital parts of an investigation is an accurate timeline, and we seem to have two different timelines going on here.
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Yes, I agree with you it's important to analyze the disparities in statements. You have done so respectfully, and that shows class. : )
 
MntnHiker said:
I am not slamming Neil at all, but I DO think bringing up discrepancies is important. Neil may be the accurate one here---isn't it important to know if the media is not reporting this totally accurately? For instance the time. The wife saying she last saw him leave around 9 vs. Neil saying he was 2/3 of the way to the oasis at 9ish. That is a pretty large discrepancy. To be on the trail and 2/3 of the way to the oasis, he probably would have had to leave the hotel around, what? 815? 8? You figure in driving there plus hiking 2/3 of the way out. So if Neil is correct here, then why is the wife saying something else? Or where did the media get the timeline from if they are to blame? You know what I mean?

I think questioning the difference in info is important because one of the most vital parts of an investigation is an accurate timeline, and we seem to have two different timelines going on here.
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And this media report claims that Paul called his wife from the Oasis and that was the last time she heard from him..And as we've later been informed he didn't even carry his cell phone with him. My money is not on the media. jmo

Hiker missing for days at Joshua Tree National Park
 
jash said:
Iffy as in he only posted to reinforce the idea that Paul was on the trail that day, or iffy as in he may have done something to Paul or iffy as in you think he was mistaken about who he saw?

My issue with Neil's account is that it doesn't match what has been reported in the media in two important ways.

#1 - He said he spoke with officials the very next day but for days the JTNP spokesperson said no one had seen him on the trail that day. Is this due to a breakdown in communication amongst the officials, or did Neil not speak with anyone until days/weeks later?

#2 - Neil said he saw Paul around 9:00, which is when Paul's wife says she last saw him at the hotel (and what has been reported in the media repeatedly). It's possible Neil saw someone else entirely.
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My issues and concerns are the same as yours.

as for slamming Neil, (other post above) he didn't bother to get verified. And he disappeared before he got "slammed" and his posts or one of his two got deleted by mods.

Saying he was "the last person to see him alive" creeped me out.
 
MntnHiker said:
I am not slamming Neil at all, but I DO think bringing up discrepancies is important. Neil may be the accurate one here---isn't it important to know if the media is not reporting this totally accurately? For instance the time. The wife saying she last saw him leave around 9 vs. Neil saying he was 2/3 of the way to the oasis at 9ish. That is a pretty large discrepancy. To be on the trail and 2/3 of the way to the oasis, he probably would have had to leave the hotel around, what? 815? 8? You figure in driving there plus hiking 2/3 of the way out. So if Neil is correct here, then why is the wife saying something else? Or where did the media get the timeline from if they are to blame? You know what I mean?

I think questioning the difference in info is important because one of the most vital parts of an investigation is an accurate timeline, and we seem to have two different timelines going on here.
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thank you for this ^^^^
 
The discrepancies are important. Neil pointed out that the timeframe he listed - which was precise to 15 minute increments - differed from media reports in his surviving post here. I tend to think the differing statements from JTNP spokespersons are due to internal communication issues, as media reports varied from no witnesses (first reported) to a witness who placed Paul at the trailhead area (which doesn’t align with Neil’s description of seeing Paul about 2/3 of the way to the oasis area as Neil was returning to the trailhead.)

Quite frankly, JTNP and the Sheriff’s office (which I assume also has jurisdiction) have not been proactive in terms of providing any kind of timeline or any information beyond the description of the initial SAR search. I consider that their responsibility and not the responsibility of a hiker who reported having seen someone he believes was Paul. It seems LE were told Paul went hiking on the trail and they found his vehicle there, so they searched there and didn’t find him. Is there any info that the investigation went beyond the SAR effort?

Neil seemed to be angered by the speculation here, which includes/ed supposition that Paul purposefully disappeared and/or that his wife was behaving suspiciously. I didn’t see the post that was removed but assume it also cast dispersions on our motivations. Knowing that he was the last person confirmed to have seen Paul seemed to weigh on him.

MOO & my speculation only. I’ve been back and forth on this but tend to lean toward Neil being legit despite the discrepancies. Your mileage may vary.
 
MaryG12 said:
Are there public phones at the Oasis?
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It doesn't appear so...

They only list public telephone at Joshua Tree

Joshua Tree Visitor Center
Open: 8:00 am to 5:00 pm
Phone: 760-366-1855
Location: South of Hwy 62 (Twentynine Palms Highway) on Park Boulevard in the Village of Joshua Tree
Address: 6554 Park Boulevard, Joshua Tree, CA 92256
Exhibits: yes
Available Facilities: bookstore, cafe, flush toilets onsite; public telephone and showers nearby

Visitor Centers - Joshua Tree National Park (U.S. National Park Service)
 
While looking for some answers to other questions posed here (cell phone service, public phones, etc), I came upon some trail reviews for hikes in JTNP posted on July 18 from a poster named Neil. Same as Neil_Witness? Not sure obviously and not sure if I'm allowed to post any more info here as I do not wish to appear to be sleuthing said witness. I wasn't and I'm not...it was an inadvertent discovery from a Trip Advisor review. If it were the same person, at least it's proof that a hiker named Neil was in the park around the same time as Paul going missing. jmo
 
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