Found Deceased CA - Rachel Nguyen, 20, & Joseph Orbeso, 21, Joshua Tree Nat'l Park, 27 July 2017 #1

[GigTu]

Did they use horses? In one video (not of the search, just visitors) people were on horses.

I would think it would be too warm for horses. Not sure what the heat index is but I imagine it's hot enough it would be dangerous for horses.

http://www.extension.umn.edu/agriculture/horse/care/managing-horses-during-hot-weather/

Cooler weather it would be great.

Joshua Tree is mercilessly hot. It's a dry, dangerous feeling heat. I used to camp (and try to rock climb - kind of too scared though) out there. It feels like you could get into trouble super quickly out there.

They did employ horses at least once during the search.

http://ktla.com/2017/07/31/vehicle-...issing-for-days-in-joshua-tree-national-park/

 

[GigTu]

http://www.desertsun.com/story/news...live-joining-searchers-joshua-tree/558185001/

"When someone is believed lost in a National Park, “The search never ends,” park spokesman Land said."

 

[TwinMama]

http://www.desertsun.com/story/news...live-joining-searchers-joshua-tree/558185001/

"When someone is believed lost in a National Park, “The search never ends,” park spokesman Land said."

That article brought tears to my eyes. So heart-wrenching.

While hikers – from novice to experienced – often get lost in Joshua Tree most are found within 24 hours, he said.

“They get turned around and when it gets dark will huddle down and when the sun comes up find their way out,” Messaros said.

The 4.8-mile Maze Loop is extremely rocky and hard to get out of and if you get off the trail, it’s like being stuck in a maze, Messaros said.

There are deep holes one can fall into and not be able to climb out of, especially if the person is injured, he said.

Searchers are equally frustrated they have not been able to find the young couple – or even a clue as to what may have happened to them.

“We have used everything … including a drone from the Grand Canyon … but we just haven’t had any luck,” Messaros said.

 

[Pipsissiway_Potts]

What? Thousands of people have disappeared from state & national parks in that time frame. Probably 22 have gone missing from Joshua Tree alone. I suggest checking out the work done by David Paulides to uncover this tragedy.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Paulides

Thanks for mentioning David Paulides and the work he's done to uncover just how many people have disappeared in National Parks, and how the Park Service has under reported the numbers. I've been thinking along similar lines, mbison, regarding this case, as much as I'm hoping that the two friends will be found alive and with a straightforward reason for their disappearance. I almost want to suggest that the areas already searched be searched again and that the search area be broadened given the circumstances of other cases of missing people in National Parks. All my humble opinion of course. Others will have different opinions, which I completely respect.

 

[Force Ten]

Thanks for mentioning David Paulides and the work he's done to uncover just how many people have disappeared in National Parks, and how the Park Service has under reported the numbers. I've been thinking along similar lines, mbison, regarding this case, as much as I'm hoping that the two friends will be found alive and with a straightforward reason for their disappearance. I almost want to suggest that the areas already searched be searched again and that the search area be broadened given the circumstances of other cases of missing people in National Parks. All my humble opinion of course. Others will have different opinions, which I completely respect.

I'm familiar with him. His conclusions are a bit controversial. He often leans towards many disappearances being paranormal in nature and that there is some massive cover-up or park services turning a blind eye.

 

[Force Ten]

This older article, from July 31, answers a few questions I still had. Here's a few sections I found interesting.

http://www.hidesertstar.com/news/article_2cf62e4c-7590-11e7-8e48-031b2ad967e7.html

This is very telling. North of the Loop trail is where they found their tracks. Northeast is where the deep canyon that leads to Indian Cove. So maybe they went up the hill side around where the tracks were located to gain a better view of where they were and then just kept going?

 

[GigTu]

I do think they went far beyond what SAR anticipated. I have a feeling they eventually headed for "city lights" and just found themselves stranded in the middle of the desert somewhere. I do think someone will find accidentally them, eventually.

 

[Elainera]

I think they are within the searched area and searchers have walked past them. I think they are somewhere in a cave or behind large boulders and were not seen.

 

[Force Ten]

I think they are within the searched area and searchers have walked past them. I think they are somewhere in a cave or behind large boulders and were not seen.

To me this is the most viable answer. And they say if you're lost, stay put. They had stopped at some point (and probably deceased) yet still have not been found. There are no real caves in JT that I know of, only large hollowed out boulders. The rock piles do provide numerous passage ways and shade. Whenever we go we find new piles to explore, sometimes on a moonlit night and can be pretty incredible. It could very well be that they climbed in and down a ways and eventually expired. If this is the case they may never be found unless by hardcore enthusiasts. Usually people do not venture that far into the backcountry because there is so much to see and do off the main roads.

But I feel it's very possible that they are way outside the search parameters.

A friend years ago told me about a place just outside the park (Dale Mining district I recall) where he and some friends went down into a large rockpile. He called it a "Spider cave". Down at the bottom of this 'cave' - it could have be 20 ft or 100, I don't remember - there was large pool of water. He gave it an elaborate name 'Cave of Blue Light' as some sunlight made it through and illuminated the cave.

I'll see if I can find a video of people exploring the rock piles.

 

[Force Ten]

These folks hiked to Willow Hole and Rattlesnake Canyon which is Southeast of the Maze Loop. Towards the beginning where the guy empties his boot, you'll see the footprints in the sand. Notice the divots like I talked about, no prints. But really watch the whole video to get a sense of JT and you'll get a sense of what it's like out there (when it's not a hell hole).

[video=youtube;pzMBaMv-k6U]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pzMBaMv-k6U&t=630s[/video]

Here you can see how easy it is to climb these rocks in just normal tennis shoes.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eHILtJPqbi4

Another video showing how versatile the landscape is.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9xJ2dfletTY

 

[GigTu]

Wow. So much danger. So many places to hide, or fall in to, and get stuck.

 

[Force Ten]

Pouring over old articles (what few there are) and the latest one and this stuck out to me.

“He’s in very good shape, always carries knives when hiking and is a survivalist,” Young said. “He is also the most respectful, honest, and straight-forward person you will ever meet.”

http://www.ocregister.com/2017/08/01/friends-hold-hope-missing-couple-is-found-alive-at-joshua-tree/

Orbeso said his son is not an avid hiker but had been to Joshua Tree two weeks before with another friend, though he didn’t know if they did any hiking.

http://www.desertsun.com/story/news...live-joining-searchers-joshua-tree/558185001/

So he did no hiking but was a "Survivalist"?

 

[Vail]

I believe a person could be characterized as a "survivalist" in terms of being knowledgeable, knowing how to light a fire and being into the outdoors (in contrast to an actual survivalist that goes camping in the Amazon to see if he can make it out alive). To me "avid hiker" is a person that does it frequently and for more of a sport than a pastime (which it is clear Joseph is not just by looking at his social media), so both opinions are likely true here. Neither of them lead me to believe he and his companion have survived this long.

The fact that the trip two weeks before is being told as a scouting trip is what is really weird to me. The last story I heard of someone scouting a trail ahead of time was the guy that took his wife hiking in Colorado and pushed her off a cliff.

 

[thekarmabus]

I believe a person could be characterized as a "survivalist" in terms of being knowledgeable, knowing how to light a fire and being into the outdoors (in contrast to an actual survivalist that goes camping in the Amazon to see if he can make it out alive). To me "avid hiker" is a person that does it frequently and for more of a sport than a pastime (which it is clear Joseph is not just by looking at his social media), so both opinions are likely true here. Neither of them lead me to believe he and his companion have survived this long.

The fact that the trip two weeks before is being told as a scouting trip is what is really weird to me. The last story I heard of someone scouting a trail ahead of time was the guy that took his wife hiking in Colorado and pushed her off a cliff.

Exactly! I'm not saying he was planning some push her off the cliff trip. There is much to be discovered with them. Please someone...where were they the night before???? Start there


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[agilbe]

Pouring over old articles (what few there are) and the latest one and this stuck out to me.

“He’s in very good shape, always carries knives when hiking and is a survivalist,” Young said. “He is also the most respectful, honest, and straight-forward person you will ever meet.”

http://www.ocregister.com/2017/08/01/friends-hold-hope-missing-couple-is-found-alive-at-joshua-tree/

Orbeso said his son is not an avid hiker but had been to Joshua Tree two weeks before with another friend, though he didn’t know if they did any hiking.

http://www.desertsun.com/story/news...live-joining-searchers-joshua-tree/558185001/

So he did no hiking but was a "Survivalist"?

I wonder if he meant a "survivor" not survivalist. JMO

 

[Force Ten]

I wonder if he meant a "survivor" not survivalist. JMO

Yeah maybe he meant it in character, like he's tough in spirit or a strong will to survive.


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[thekarmabus]

I wonder if he meant a "survivor" not survivalist. JMO

It sounds as though he and his father were not super close which is common at that age. It was his friend that stated he was a survivalist, hiked, carried a knife. His father didn't know he hiked .


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[Suglo]

Update from Joshua Tree Search & Rescue. Still searching.

https://www.facebook.com/josarorg/posts/1520998061341384

 

[AffirmationChick]

Update from Joshua Tree Search & Rescue. Still searching.

https://www.facebook.com/josarorg/posts/1520998061341384

Thanks for sharing. I can only imagine how frustrating this case is for them when it's this baffling from outside it all.


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[Force Ten]

This many days in and several dozen searchers, they had to have covered every possible place they could be within that valley and the road. Maybe twice. They must be somewhere they haven't checked yet, or thought of checking. Yet I think of Eric Sears, who was only 2 1/2 miles from the campground where he disappeared, 6 days later. This search is on a much grander scale though.

I wonder if perhaps they did make it back to the car and then decided to go elsewhere. Why did Orbeso's phone ping the tower yet no call or text was placed?