CA CA - San Juan Capistrano, Male, 60, UP11601, in the brush alongside railroad tracks, U.S. Navy dog, clothes, glasses, Mar'53

[Romulus]

Unidentified Person/NamUs #UP11601
Male, Uncertain
Date Body Found: March 19, 1953
Location Found: San Juan Capistrano, California
Estimated Age Range: 60 Years
Estimated Age Group: Adult
Estimated Age Range (Years): 60
Estimated Year of Death: 1952-1953
Estimated PMI: 2 Months
Height: Cannot Estimate
Weight: Cannot Estimate

The National Missing and Unidentified Persons System (NamUs)

By bringing people, information, forensic science and technology together, NamUs helps resolve cases.

www.namus.gov

Circumstances of Recovery: The deceased was found in the brush alongside railroad tracks.

Clothing and Accessories​

Item
Description
Accessories
U.S. Navy dog-tag "FOSTER M. HULL Jr #569-14-22" Check with R & I in Washington determined this tag does not belong to the deceased.Numerous coins in small tobacco sacks
Los Angeles Herald & Express paper dated December 8th 1952
Near the Body

Clothing
Long underwear of medium weight
Pair of blue dress pants and a pair of khaki pantsKhaki shirt, army shirtPair of bib overalls
On the Body

Clothing
several pairs of socks in pockets
Near the Body

Eyewear
Glasses
On the Body

 

[NumquamObliviscarEorum]

I think the dog tag would be a very beneficial clue. How did this man gain possession of the tag? Is it possible the man had a personal connection with this Hull? Unfortunately it's been over seventy years since this man was found so it's unlikely investigators could talk to him about this.

 

[NumquamObliviscarEorum]

Found this, 95% certain that this is the man whose dog tag our man had on him.
As I guessed, Hull Jr. has passed away, and did so in 2016.

Foster Miller HULL Jr. - Ancestors of Wayne Bower and Laurie McBurmey

 

[OddOneOut]

Unidentified Person/NamUs #UP11601
Male, Uncertain
Date Body Found: March 19, 1953
Location Found: San Juan Capistrano, California
Estimated Age Range: 60 Years
Estimated Age Group: Adult
Estimated Age Range (Years): 60
Estimated Year of Death: 1952-1953
Estimated PMI: 2 Months
Height: Cannot Estimate
Weight: Cannot Estimate

The National Missing and Unidentified Persons System (NamUs)

By bringing people, information, forensic science and technology together, NamUs helps resolve cases.

www.namus.gov

Circumstances of Recovery: The deceased was found in the brush alongside railroad tracks.

Clothing and Accessories​

Item
Description
Accessories
U.S. Navy dog-tag "FOSTER M. HULL Jr #569-14-22" Check with R & I in Washington determined this tag does not belong to the deceased.Numerous coins in small tobacco sacks
Los Angeles Herald & Express paper dated December 8th 1952
Near the Body

Clothing
Long underwear of medium weight
Pair of blue dress pants and a pair of khaki pantsKhaki shirt, army shirtPair of bib overalls
On the Body

Clothing
several pairs of socks in pockets
Near the Body

Eyewear
Glasses
On the Body

It appears this man would have been born in the 1890s. Maybe a parent, uncle, or grand parent of the owner of the dog tags. Then again it is possible he found the dog tags but why bother to carry them around.

 

[NumquamObliviscarEorum]

It appears this man would have been born in the 1890s. Maybe a parent, uncle, or grand parent of the owner of the dog tags. Then again it is possible he found the dog tags but why bother to carry them around.

I tracked down the owner of the dog tags, he was 23 in 1953. I got into contact with a relative of Hull Jr. to see if I could get a list of bases he served at. I think our UP being someone from a base is a worthwhile avenue to pursue, at least to start with.

EDIT: Found a newspaper article from the day after he was discovered. Gives us some interesting information about the circumstances relating to his death. Pardon the unfortunate derogatory language. I wonder if that discounts my "related to the base theory."

.

 

[NumquamObliviscarEorum]

I figured I would collect my current thoughts about this subject.
This man appears to have been a man from Mexico or of Mexican descent.
Could it be possible that the man lived a transient lifestyle and rode on trains between locations?
It seems the man caught an illness and died from it or some other natural cause. At least on the early perception.
The man was found covered by a heavy coat and canvass.
An interesting note: there is a discrepancy of the date of the newspaper found underneath him. NAMUS has the date as December 8th, while the newspaper says December 28th. I find it likely that it is a typo on the side of NAMUS.

Current avenues to pursue:
- Going to look into the list of bases when/if Hull Jr.'s relative responds to me. Might also look them up in the meantime.
- Contact relevant parties in San Juan Capistrano to see if there are any autopsy/police reports about the man. Of particular interest is if the heavy coat or canvass is still in LE possession (really hoping for the coat specifically.)
- Contact Orange County Coroner Division to ascertain the current status of his remains and if a DNA profile has been acquired yet.
- Unfortunately there doesn't seem to be a Mexican equivalent to NAMUS, so if this man was not an American citizen that will add a layer of difficulty.
- I think genetic genealogy will be the best chance at this man getting his name back.
- The dog tags. How did he get them? Is it possible that Hull Jr. lost them and the man found them and carried them around? Will have to wait to speculate on that until more information on where/when Hull Jr. was stationed.

What are your thoughts?

EDIT: I completely missed the fact that an army shirt was found on him! That brings me back to the army connection.

 

[rosesfromangels]

Perhaps he worked at the base? Perhaps the dog tag was his sons?

Amateur opinion and speculation

 

[NumquamObliviscarEorum]

Perhaps he worked at the base? Perhaps the dog tag was his sons?

Amateur opinion and speculation

I'm definitely leaning toward him being a worker/soldier from a base.
However, we can say for sure that he isn't Hull Jr.'s father. Hull Jr.'s father was a man named, well, Dr. Foster Miller Hull. While he did serve in the military he died in 1949.
Here's information about Dr. Hull: Dr. Foster Miller HULL - Ancestors of Wayne Bower and Laurie McBurmey

EDIT: Okay so I took a look at the bases in California at the time.
Since the dog tag of Hull Jr. is said to be Navy I believe the two relevant bases are Camp Pendleton and Marine Corps Air Station Miramar. Will be looking forward to the relative confirming one (or both?) of these.

Both bases are pretty close to where the man was found.

 

[NumquamObliviscarEorum]

So I tried filing FOIA requests with the county, and after being bounced around I was told to file with the coroner's office. I was told that since the case was "still open and being investigated by our office" they couldn't give me anything. I suppose I should have seen that coming.

Does anyone have advice on how to proceed?

 

[JamesRUstlerIV]

I'm definitely leaning toward him being a worker/soldier from a base.
However, we can say for sure that he isn't Hull Jr.'s father. Hull Jr.'s father was a man named, well, Dr. Foster Miller Hull. While he did serve in the military he died in 1949.
Here's information about Dr. Hull: Dr. Foster Miller HULL - Ancestors of Wayne Bower and Laurie McBurmey

EDIT: Okay so I took a look at the bases in California at the time.
Since the dog tag of Hull Jr. is said to be Navy I believe the two relevant bases are Camp Pendleton and Marine Corps Air Station Miramar. Will be looking forward to the relative confirming one (or both?) of these.

Both bases are pretty close to where the man was found.

FWIW, Miramar was a Naval Air Station at the time.

 

[annemc2]

So I tried filing FOIA requests with the county, and after being bounced around I was told to file with the coroner's office. I was told that since the case was "still open and being investigated by our office" they couldn't give me anything. I suppose I should have seen that coming.

Does anyone have advice on how to proceed?

No advice here, but I appreciate all the work you have put into this! I've wondered about the glasses. Were they military-issued? One would think that for a migrant/possibly undocumented person prescription glasses might have been cost prohibitive, even if purchased in Mexico. Were they the more substantial glass/metal of the 40s or the more "modern" plastic used in the 50s?

 

[NumquamObliviscarEorum]

No advice here, but I appreciate all the work you have put into this! I've wondered about the glasses. Were they military-issued? One would think that for a migrant/possibly undocumented person prescription glasses might have been cost prohibitive, even if purchased in Mexico. Were they the more substantial glass/metal of the 40s or the more "modern" plastic used in the 50s?

Thank you!
Unfortunately there isn't any details about the glasses on the page, and unless I somehow obtain that information from the police files there truly is no way to know.

Some items I've been deliberating on:
The copy of the Los Angeles Herald & Express paper dated December 8th 1952. Were the contents somehow relevant to him? Something of sentimental value or news he'd be interested in? Or was it something he carried around for practical reasons (i.e. miniscule covering?) I still need to search around in archives to see if anyone has this paper.

DNA: Performing a genealogical test could prove very beneficial. I do wonder what the process for getting that done would be. Another thing I will need to look into.

 

[Melt71]

@NumquamObliviscarEorum LE would need to request DNA. As this is expensive, perhaps you could research either seeking funding (for example by some of the true crime podcasts or Youtube channels that have funded previous cases), funded via donations (ie: Othram) or gratis via a program like the DNA Doe Project. However regardless of the funding source, LE needs to make the call that DNA is something they are willing to explore - maybe you could contact them and this possibility with them.