Deceased/Not Found CA - Sierra LaMar, 15, Morgan Hill, 16 March 2012 #18 *A. Garcia-Torres guilty*

[GrainneDhu]

Here is one of my many silly thoughts. I like to think outloud as I type then think before I type. (laugh)

If he undressed her before death, wouldn't he open himself up to her fighting with him, her escaping or something like that? If he had tied her, how does he get her shirt off? This is why I think he forced her to undress. Tell me where that doesn't fit cause I don't see it. You can use me as a sounding board. lol

I think he forced her to undress.

There are several different types of rapists and I am wondering if he was what has been called a power assertive rapist. These are rapists who want to have the illusion that the victim is enjoying the act. If the victim begs, cries or tries to resist, they flip into anger and punish the victim.

These rapists often start off by having the victim undress because it feeds their fantasy that the victim is overcome with lust.

As long as these rapists feel safe and like the victim is actually enjoying it (because she's not resisting physically or verbally), there's a low likelihood of serious physical injury or murder. But if the victim resists, these rapists escalate rapidly into anger and the odds of serious physical injury or murder go way up.

What makes me think he may be a power assertive rapist is that he has a wife (they are often monogamous or serially monogamous); low educational level; victim is often selected (stalked) in advance but they are sometimes opportunistic; image conscious; domestic problems; among others.

 

[LadyL]

Lera: possible yes, also she could have been knocked out from tazer or asthma attack. This is why I wonder what shape those clothes were in, non ripped? or like a struggle occurred? and if marks on them from a taser gun?

if he tazered her on the neck, her clothes would not have been damaged

 

[Tuliptiptoe]

I don't have a link but I recall reading past teachers and peers saying he was really social, polite, and likeable in school, but didn't do the work (which is probably why he landed in continuation). I think his problems with authority began after that and related to LE.


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IMO, not doing your school work IS showing a problem with authority.

 

[Brippilaine]

You know I'm just stumped and I know slot of you guys don't seem to believe agt sold Sierra in the sex trade industry but i keep coming back to this ok a) he would have had to get all of her belongings that personalized her ie her juicy handbag her clothes etc and disposed of them immediately and had her put on other attire b) if you guys have read ever thread it was discussed back last thread about the timing of conceiving his kids ok that seems to be the only known attempts back in march if 09 and march of 12 ok so he starts stressing out over money to be able to support his family so he kidnaps a girl and sells them!
Ok well then my brain at this point is just going in all sorts of directions so if he didn't sell her wen have the kidnap rape and murder ok again every time that we know of that he potentially strikes is right after he finds out his wife is pregnant so maybe she is sick all the time and he is a sex addict and he has to resort to rape while this period Is over sorry for vulgar talk just trying to figure this out it's killing me this is all jmoo

 

[Fashionista_Gal]

Oh, the great bag debate...We've thrown around so many theories, but I think it's likely that one or two things happened: 1. Sierra placed the bag there or 2. AGT placed the bag there. Others have said it's usually the simplest explanation. We've thrown around a lot of possibilities, but I think these are the simplest and perhaps most probable:

The first in which Sierra would have placed the bag, which I've thought about many times is that he made her get out and remove her clothes there. Now, did an assault occur there? We don't know. LE hasn't stated if they found any evidence of this near the shed, but maybe it's some of the info they have chosen not to share just yet. I think it's possible he made her get out and remove her clothes as a way to scare and gain control of her. Perhaps he had plans to take her elsewhere, but didn't want to risk her drawing attention while in the car so by removing her clothing, he felt this would scare her and make her less likely to make a scene? Perhaps he ordered her to fold her clothes in the way she did or maybe she just did it as a way to buy time, maybe hoping someone would drive by and see them.

And then the second possibility is that AGT placed the bag there. Here, there are a few possibilities. Let's face it, he doesn't seem very intelligent. Maybe he committed the crime, forgot to dispose of the bag and just dropped it there, but that seems so random to me. It wasn't that well hidden, was it? Seems like it would have been better to just throw it in a dumpster or something. Why drive to that shed? The second idea is that maybe he does have some intelligence and deliberately put the bag there after to confuse LE.

I really think the idea of the clothes being wet mentioned above is really interesting. They seem to be really focused on water. So, it would make sense that they either found evidence of water in the bag or in his car.

 

[dluke]

IMO, not doing your school work IS showing a problem with authority.

It can be, but not always - I have more experience with this than I would prefer. I've got a son finishing his Jr year and has HUGE problems getting school work done and passing classes, not because he has a problem with authority but for a myriad of other reasons. Not having internal motivation, being apathetic about success, or even just being lazy doesn't mean someone has a problem with authority exactly. Although I do agree that they CAN go hand in hand.

When asked to describe my son who chronically doesn't get his work done and has landed himself in continuation twice, teachers routinely say they really like him and he is respectful and social, but lazy and lacks motivation. Its a constant battle, but nothing to do with problems with authority, in our case at least.

As far as AGT, I'd love to hear how he was at home during those years, did he listen to his mom and follow the house rules, etc.

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[bbmama11]

Super creepy YouTube video :-s

I know it's been covered but I know old school Mexicans DO cut their hair short when they're mourning or when they're making a promise or oath. I believe it's called an ofrende...an offering. My husband grew his hair out as a promise to his mom to complete something. When he did, he cut it. We kept it for a while and thenoffered t at a ceremony. Same thing w/my son. His mom has also done it...so not too unusual to hear she had a braid (that's how we kept both of their hair...in a braid).

And on the name...again cultural. Husband has his first name, moms maiden name and then his last name on his birth certificate, social security, etc. but...he goes by his first name, dads last name hyphenated w/his moms maiden name. it's caused some payroll issues because he refers to himself differently than what is written on his social.

 

[Brippilaine]

Sorry for asking but can someone please fill me in on this YouTube video is it in reference to this case I'm kinda afraid to watch it tonight bc my husband is working 24hrs on the ambulance tonight and I don't wanna get too disturbed tonight thanks so much

 

[Lera213]

I cannot see him taking her, driving a little ways away, having her get out, undress, or he undressed her, and now even her naked in the car unless she is in the trunk. What would happen if a truck passed by and seen a girl naked in the car? What if he stopped with her where the bag was found and made her undress, wouldn't he be risking another car going by at that location?

Or he drove her to another location with her clothes on, had her undress, and she placed them in her bag, he kills her, (wherever that was) and thought about keeping the items as a trophy but changed his mind on his way home? Did he leave them in that spot because he wanted her family to find them, more torture or his "I'm sorry" episode.

The phone I think he flipped out the window very quickly. I don't know anymore...too much now and not enough to go on. All I know is, he is an A-Typical macho machismo, arrogant, !

 

[Pensfan]

If a person were tasered, wouldnt there be signs of a taser going through their clothing if they were tasered someplace on themselves that had clothing? Like through a shirt, wouldnt the shirt then have marks from the taser? I know tasers can kill and can cause you to urinate yourself too. Just asking.

Stun gun marks can't be seen on clothing or on the epidermis. (Current doesn't burn.) A taser (dart) will make a hole in clothing where the dart entered.

 

[Fashionista_Gal]

I cannot see him taking her, driving a little ways away, having her get out, undress, or he undressed her, and now even her naked in the car unless she is in the trunk. What would happen if a truck passed by and seen a girl naked in the car? What if he stopped with her where the bag was found and made her undress, wouldn't he be risking another car going by at that location?

Or he drove her to another location with her clothes on, had her undress, and she placed them in her bag, he kills her, (wherever that was) and thought about keeping the items as a trophy but changed his mind on his way home? Did he leave them in that spot because he wanted her family to find them, more torture or his "I'm sorry" episode.

The phone I think he flipped out the window very quickly. I don't know anymore...too much now and not enough to go on. All I know is, he is an A-Typical macho machismo, arrogant, !

BBM. That is my only issue with that theory. It almost seems more risky, however, I would not be surprised if he put her in the trunk. Even if he drove around with her in her clothes, that also seems risky. She had to have been absolutely terrified. If one passerby saw her and saw the look of distress, that would also be very risky on his part.

 

[Tuliptiptoe]

I hate typing this, but I'm thinking he undressed her after all was said and done.

jmo

 

[Pensfan]

It can be, but not always - I have more experience with this than I would prefer. I've got a son finishing his Jr year and has HUGE problems getting school work done and passing classes, not because he has a problem with authority but for a myriad of other reasons. Not having internal motivation, being apathetic about success, or even just being lazy doesn't mean someone has a problem with authority exactly. Although I do agree that they CAN go hand in hand.

When asked to describe my son who chronically doesn't get his work done and has landed himself in continuation twice, teachers routinely say they really like him and he is respectful and social, but lazy and lacks motivation. Its a constant battle, but nothing to do with problems with authority, in our case at least.

As far as AGT, I'd love to hear how he was at home during those years, did he listen to his mom and follow the house rules, etc.

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Individuals who have motivational problems may have Attention Deficit Disorder and/or depression. (I don't think this is the root of AGT's issues, though.)

 

[Native Pride]

It would be nice to know what kind of shape those clothes were in, like were they ripped or torn or in perfect condition as if she was knocked out when undressed, or undressed herself. I hate to say, but could she have been dead from an asthma attack or something already when the clothes were removed? Just thinking aloud I guess.

my gut has always felt it was highly a good chance of asthma attack ....as a asthmatic tmi but many times u can start having a attack when someone is on u crying panic anxiety many things can trigger a asthmatic attack n cause death ...u cant breathe n need a inhaler ...him probably not believing her when she said she couldn't breathe he ignored her n she passed from asthma n he panicked n hid her i dunno but very possible to pass from asthma

 

[cluciano63]

I hope that at least some of these questions are answered one day; really, hoping for a confession a la John Gardner (Chelsea King and Amber DuBois murderer). At least he did not put thru families through a trial and he told what happened and what he did to Amber, which her mother, in particular, wanted to know in detail. (As well as leading police to Amber's body, in a spot where she would never have been found, IMO-and she was buried.)

If this man is guilty and won't confess, I think we will only have conjecture from LE for a lot of it, i.e the bag, who removed the clothes, etc.

 

[Ghostwheel]

I hope that at least some of these questions are answered one day; really, hoping for a confession a la John Gardner (Chelsea King and Amber DuBois murderer). At least he did not put thru families through a trial and he told what happened and what he did to Amber, which her mother, in particular, wanted to know in detail. (As well as leading police to Amber's body, in a spot where she would never have been found, IMO-and she was buried.)

If this man is guilty and won't confess, I think we will only have conjecture from LE for a lot of it, i.e the bag, who removed the clothes, etc.

With Gardner, they asked Chelsea King's family if they would be OK with taking the death penalty off the table in order to get Amber's location. They had him cold on Chelsea's murder. In this case, no body, good chance of getting off. Unless the DA can prove to Torres that he is going down for murder, it is not in his best interest to make a deal.

 

[cluciano63]

With Gardner, they asked Chelsea King's family if they would be OK with taking the death penalty off the table in order to get Amber's location. They had him cold on Chelsea's murder. In this case, no body, good chance of getting off. Unless the DA can prove to Torres that he is going down for murder, it is not in his best interest to make a deal.

I agree that the DP will probably not be obtained, or even sought. So not sure his lawyer would prompt him to admit to anything. That is why I think we will never know about the purse, etc...

Unless by some chance his mom can get him to tell the truth. But I think he would be too ashamed and will stick to the "no evidence/ I was framed" bit forever.

 

[deanna82437]

It's a hacked account. There is nothing on KTVU nor on google news.

I agree on the hacked account plus there were no searches today and the hackers are also reading here and at JQ. Just getting their kicks or whatever.

 

[Fashionista_Gal]

I hope that at least some of these questions are answered one day; really, hoping for a confession a la John Gardner (Chelsea King and Amber DuBois murderer). At least he did not put thru families through a trial and he told what happened and what he did to Amber, which her mother, in particular, wanted to know in detail. (As well as leading police to Amber's body, in a spot where she would never have been found, IMO-and she was buried.)

If this man is guilty and won't confess, I think we will only have conjecture from LE for a lot of it, i.e the bag, who removed the clothes, etc.

I agree. It's almost tiring at this point to continue to come up with different theories about what happened, why the bag was placed where it was, etc. I think we all need some new info to go on, but we have to trust that there is a reason we aren't getting more just yet. I think LE is doing their best and hopefully we will soon be able to learn some of these details. We just want Sierra to be found and for justice to be served!

 

[cluciano63]

I agree. It's almost tiring at this point to continue to come up with different theories about what happened, why the bag was placed where it was, etc. I think we all need some new info to go on, but we have to trust that there is a reason we aren't getting more just yet. I think LE is doing their best and hopefully we will soon be able to learn some of these details. We just want Sierra to be found and for justice to be served!

Lol you should see the round-and-round on cases with the victim missing a year or more, like Holly Bobo. Every conceivable topic has been discussed about a dozen times or more, in every way possible, and when they come up again, I swear my eyes roll. But then I know not everyone has read every thread as I have done, so I try to be patient.