Deceased/Not Found CA - Sierra LaMar, 15, Morgan Hill, 16 March 2012 #18 *A. Garcia-Torres guilty*

[krkrjx]

I think it would be pretty easy to handle the bag without leaving useful, liftable prints on it. You can grab a zip between your knuckle and thumb joint instead of your fingertips. You can carry it by putting your hands through the loops, hands never touching. You can hold it open with your fingers spread, no tips, to put stuff in it. And if it is even the type of surface that takes prints well you can probably wipe it down with your long sleeve?

If one wanted to make sure they didn't leave prints and carried the bag as you suggested, it would be difficult to toss, but easy to place. I am not saying there is evidence the bag was placed rather than tossed but if it was purposely placed it could be because the perp chose to very carefully handle the bag, not out of respect for it or his victim, but as a precaution to not leave his prints.

 

[OtherEyes]

Regarding the cell phone; If the cell phone was tossed, and had no prints from the perp on the phone, then the perp was wearing gloves, or he was able to grab the phone and wipe it down before tossing it. If he was wearing gloves and left no prints on the phone, the prosecution might be able to show the pre meditated aspect of the crime( well it might be a stretch). The other possibility is that he told her to throw the phone. If she threw the phone then she could obviously not have been put into the trunk at that point in time.
It appears from the map that the phone would have been thrown from the drivers side, based on the direction they think the perp traveled after the abduction. I am not 100% certain, so please correct me if I have gotten the wrong impression.
Something else occurred to me this morning when I was thinking about this case. The vehicle that was stolen and later returned to the area was determined to be a trailer of some type, and I can't help but wonder if there might be a connection there.

Where can I read about this vehicle? Do you have a quick reference handy? TIA!:loser:

 

[LisaB]

It's ok by me.
It's the Sheriff who backtracks and says not thrown.

Maybe there was a catapult in the car somewhere.

And maybe I should note that I was being facetious before
someone comes on to tell me that there aren't catapults in
any of the shops around MH.

No, but I think the OF store carries a trebuchet... (I AM JOKING, GUYS!)

 

[LisaB]

Me personally, I don't care if they didn't reveal it until the 12th of Never,
they weren't fooling Antolin Garcia about when they got the car.
Only the public.
What purpose did that serve?

Is it possible they were trying to eliminate the possibility of him saying someone else had a red/black Jetta just like his and the police failed to investigate. So LE cast a wide net to look for ANY OTHER CAR that could possibly have been involved, that might weaken the case against AG-T. The tips they got were probably OVERWHELMINGLY about his car, and they called the game off after a day because the volume of calls was overwhelming.

 

[LisaB]

Not replying to any topic, but I am in the USA right now on vacation, and boy is this hitting home even more. Just thinking about Sierra all day, and have been praying that she will be found soon. She really has become "an international daughter" to all of us. I wish her family knew that there are people all over the world who knows about this, and has been following any news, and who are praying also.

If you end up in Maryland, I'll buy you lunch!

 

[nursebeeme]

“In an effort to maximize resources to locate Sierra, the sheriff’s office is encouraging the community and rural property owners to continue searches of land, water shorelines, creeks, streams, private property wells, large containers, and abandoned sheds or outhouse structures,” Cardoza said in a news release. “The areas of focus should be south Santa Clara County and the land bordering our county such as north San Benito County, north Monterey County, and east Santa Cruz County.”

Garcia-Torres’ arrest was the culmination of more than two months of investigation.

http://crimevoice.com/prosecutors-confident-in-lamar-case-search-for-teen-continues-12555/

 

[LBrennanVW]

Sierra LaMar Update: Body Search in Specific Locations
http:///viewArticle.action?articleId=281474981364297


Also, in regards to the woman's body found in a trash can:
Police can't ID woman's body found in trash can
http://www.mercurynews.com/breaking-news/ci_20740747/police-cant-id-womans-body-found-trash-can

 

[LittleMissContrary]

Yeah, what about that? That is weird while they kept nearly everything....hmmm

Yes and I am still confused about the sweatshirt vs. jersey issue. If she was wearing just a jersey, I can understand how she would not have another shirt underneath (depending on how loose fitting it was). But if she was wearing the Grey Shark's sweatshirt, then I would assume she was wearing a shirt underneath. My experience is that I never wear a sweatshirt with nothing other than a bra underneath unless I am just doing housework. If I wear a sweatshirt out, I anticipate the possible change in temperature, and have a lightweight knit top of some kind under the sweatshirt. I have not heard anything about them finding another shirt in her bag. I also did not get the impression that the shirt in that last picture she posted was grey in color. Perhaps charcoal grey, but it looks black or blue to me.

 

[SweetT]

I never wear anything under my sweatshirt unless I am layering up for a very cold winter day. I can't stand to have on two shirts it gets all discombobulated to me. And sometimes I wont even wear the bra. So I guess that is all up to personal preference.

 

[Darcyline]

I am the exact opposite ha ha. Wearing a sweatshirt with nothing underneath it makes me feel naked and exposed. I always wear a very lightweight tank top or layering tank underneath. I wonder what the norm is (if there is one?). It is possible Sierra just had the sweatshirt on though (if it was, indeed, a sweatshirt?)


One thing that still hangs me up about this case is imagining him after potentially doing horrible things to her (or about to do horrible things) calmly and neatly folding those clothes and neatly placing them in the bag. It just does not register. If that is what happened it almost makes it more frightening to me. I wonder if we will ever get the full story of what happened. I am doubting it Not that it ultimately matters, of course. Why someone folded clothes or put the bag where it was pales in significance to what happened to Sierra.

 

[sayd]

:waitasec: Just had a thought about the Handbag and the Video Surveillance :

The video of the Handbag being put by the shed needs to directly link Antolin to putting it there :

The video has to clearly show Antolin putting the items there and / or the video has to clearly show his License Plate on the vehicle ...

And JMO, but this leads me to believe that they do NOT have this evidence on the surveillance video ...

IF LE did have a video of Antolin putting the Handbag by the shed, then WHY didn't they arrest him sooner ? They would have identified him sooner and got him then ! Otherwise, it leaves the door wide open ...

:moo:

They said they delayed arresting him because they were hoping by having him under surveillance, he would lead them to Sierra.

 

[SweetT]

I am the exact opposite ha ha. Wearing a sweatshirt with nothing underneath it makes me feel naked and exposed. I always wear a very lightweight tank top or layering tank underneath. I wonder what the norm is (if there is one?). It is possible Sierra just had the sweatshirt on though (if it was, indeed, a sweatshirt?)


One thing that still hangs me up about this case is imagining him after potentially doing horrible things to her (or about to do horrible things) calmly and neatly folding those clothes and neatly placing them in the bag. It just does not register. If that is what happened it almost makes it more frightening to me. I wonder if we will ever get the full story of what happened. I am doubting it Not that it ultimately matters, of course. Why someone folded clothes or put the bag where it was pales in significance to what happened to Sierra.

I agree and you did make me chuckle :floorlaugh: with your feeling naked and exposed as it reminded me of my girlfriend going to Cancun and buying of all things..underwear to wear under her bathing suit bottoms. I had never heard of such a thing. So yes, to each his own.

It also does bother me too if I think about this suspect being the one who folded these items. It is just really creeping me out to think that. I also don't know if we will ever know.

 

[dog.gone.cute]

They said they delayed arresting him because they were hoping by having him under surveillance, he would lead them to Sierra.

:seeya: Yes ... that is what LE said, and they were "hoping" that he would lead them to Sierra ... BUT he did NOT lead them to Sierra ...

What I am trying to figure out is this : WHAT EVIDENCE do they have LINKING Antolin to Sierra with respect to the items found near the shed ?

In order for it to be "Direct Evidence" there has to be a video that clearly shows Antolin placing Sierra's items there -- and/or -- Antolin's vehicle's License Plate at the shed while he is placing the items there ... also, they need to have a clear video showing Siera IN HIS red Jetta ...

Otherwise, they do not have this type of direct evidence ... it then becomes questionable and raises doubt ... therefore, it could be any "red Jetta" or any "red car" ...

This JMO and MOO ... but I just do NOT see why Antolin would go there and place Sierra's items at this shed ... it makes absolutely NO sense IMO ... Why not find a trashcan or dumpster where it most probably would have NEVER been found ?

In other words, what kind of criminal would leave a "trail" -- especially since he has had run-ins with the law before ? KWIM ?

And I do not believe he took Sierra to the shed because as I recall, the dogs were brought there and they did NOT pick up on her scent there ...

Of course, all JMO and MOO ...

:moo:

 

[OldSteve]

Snipped:

One thing that still hangs me up about this case is imagining him after potentially doing horrible things to her (or about to do horrible things) calmly and neatly folding those clothes and neatly placing them in the bag. It just does not register. If that is what happened it almost makes it more frightening to me. I wonder if we will ever get the full story of what happened. I am doubting it Not that it ultimately matters, of course. Why someone folded clothes or put the bag where it was pales in significance to what happened to Sierra.

I see the neatly folding as something Sierra might have done to buy time.... might have told her to place her things back in the bag...

 

[daisy.faithfull]

:seeya: Yes ... that is what LE said, and they were "hoping" that he would lead them to Sierra ... BUT he did NOT lead them to Sierra ...

What I am trying to figure out is this : WHAT EVIDENCE do they have LINKING Antolin to Sierra with respect to the items found near the shed ?

In order for it to be "Direct Evidence" there has to be a video that clearly shows Antolin placing Sierra's items there -- and/or -- Antolin's vehicle's License Plate at the shed while he is placing the items there ... also, they need to have a clear video showing Siera IN HIS red Jetta ...

Otherwise, they do not have this type of direct evidence ... it then becomes questionable and raises doubt ... therefore, it could be any "red Jetta" or any "red car" ...

This JMO and MOO ... but I just do NOT see why Antolin would go there and place Sierra's items at this shed ... it makes absolutely NO sense IMO ... Why not find a trashcan or dumpster where it most probably would have NEVER been found ?

In other words, what kind of criminal would leave a "trail" -- especially since he has had run-ins with the law before ? KWIM ?

And I do not believe he took Sierra to the shed because as I recall, the dogs were brought there and they did NOT pick up on her scent there ...

Of course, all JMO and MOO ...

:moo:

I'm puzzled by the direct evidence thing too. If my understanding of direct evidence is correct, I think that would mean that someone or something saw him actually taking her against her will, raping and/or murdering her. If they only have her being in the car with him wouldn't that be circumstantial evidence since technically just because she was in the car with him doesn't mean she was there against her will or that he raped and/or killed her, YKWIM?

And then regarding the dogs not being able to pick up Sierra's scent where they found the bag, wouldn't her scent be on the bag since it was her bag? Maybe it's that there wasn't a scent trail from Sierra to the bag? I wonder if it's possible for LE to tell if A's scent was on the bag and/ or a scent trail of his leading to the bag?

 

[LinasK]

I'm puzzled by the direct evidence thing too. If my understanding of direct evidence is correct, I think that would mean that someone or something saw him actually taking her against her will, raping and/or murdering her. If they only have her being in the car with him wouldn't that be circumstantial evidence since technically just because she was in the car with him doesn't mean she was there against her will or that he raped and/or killed her, YKWIM?

And then regarding the dogs not being able to pick up Sierra's scent where they found the bag, wouldn't her scent be on the bag since it was her bag? Maybe it's that there wasn't a scent trail from Sierra to the bag? I wonder if it's possible for LE to tell if A's scent was on the bag and/ or a scent trail of his leading to the bag?

Circumstantial evidence is a very powerful thing! Many criminals have been convicted upon it alone, without direct evidence, and forensic evidence doesn't lie, and can be more reliable than eyewitnesses, whose memories can change!

 

[stillwatersc]

Snipped:



I see the neatly folding as something Sierra might have done to buy time.... might have told her to place her things back in the bag...

I can see that also - trying to delay having to take off the next item. And I think this happened while she was in the car, since the bag was not hidden with Sierra.

 

[dog.gone.cute]

I'm puzzled by the direct evidence thing too. If my understanding of direct evidence is correct, I think that would mean that someone or something saw him actually taking her against her will, raping and/or murdering her. If they only have her being in the car with him wouldn't that be circumstantial evidence since technically just because she was in the car with him doesn't mean she was there against her will or that he raped and/or killed her, YKWIM?

And then regarding the dogs not being able to pick up Sierra's scent where they found the bag, wouldn't her scent be on the bag since it was her bag? Maybe it's that there wasn't a scent trail from Sierra to the bag? I wonder if it's possible for LE to tell if A's scent was on the bag and/ or a scent trail of his leading to the bag?

:seeya: Yep ... that's my interpretation as well ...

RBBM: I totally agree ... and "who knows" IF -- a big IF here -- she MAY know him, or know one of his friends ...

Ya just never know ... no telling WHO she may have been communicating with on Twitter or tumbler or the internet ...


ETA: Just saw this here on WS and am posting the link here as well ... SCARY !!!

Family: Houston girl lured into sex trade by Facebook predators

AUSTIN, Texas -- Family members say a Houston girl was lured into the sex trade by predators on Facebook. Now, the child's aunt in Austin is sharing her story. ...

The girl was missing for 48 hours. Whalon says they were able to track her down thanks to the
GPS on the girl's cell phone. They say it saved her life.

snipped from : http://www.khou.com/news/Child-with-Texas-ties-lured-into-sex-trade--155711925.html

WS Thread : Family: Houston girl lured into sex trade by Facebook predators - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community



:moo::moo::moo:

 

[Lera213]

Since LE was tailing him and he didn't lead them to her body.....maybe LE should look at a direction he didn't go in, instead of directions he went in as possible locations to search.

 

[SweetT]

After reading some here, I am now on the fence as to if Sierra willingly got into the suspects car or not. My main reason for thinking it is possible is because previously I had thought she was stun gunned and dragged into the vehicle. But as another poster stated this would cause her to drop any books etc and would the perp bother to pick those up out of the road, along with Sierra and her purse etc? So now I am back at square one on this one.