Deceased/Not Found CA - Sierra LaMar, 15, Morgan Hill, 16 March 2012 #5 *A. Garcia-Torres guilty*

[cluciano63]

Sorry Guy's, but I am just beginning to read the info on this case, and I have a few observations and (of course) questions:

Clothes:
> The fact that a change of underwear was found with the clothes makes me wonder-- if all she was going to do was change into or out of her clothes immediately why the "underwear"? I mean wouldn't she use the underwear she had on and just change the clothes? This to me would mean she did not want to wear the same underwear--for some reason right?

> They would not answer the question about urine on the clothes, leading one to believe there is some truth to that--does it have to only be urine? If urine, maybe it is animal from being left outside.
If they did not want to answer that question it also might mean it was some other fluid, like blood or semen.

>Wouldn't it seem if she did not pack those clothes "who" and "why" would they be folded "neatly", I mean just throw them in there--only if you did not want them to wrinkle would you care?

> Her mother said she had not seen the clothes LE found, so how did LE know they were hers?

>How do they Know the family have alibi's for the time she went missing, the exact time of her disappearance has not been determined. There is a window of some 11 hours?

Texting:
> LE said they traced her last text to her cell phone at home at 7am, Texts can be sent by anyone, right?

> With reference to "her" Texting style--Whoa!! Yes normal teens are not squeaky clean when talking or texting friends, that's a given. But her texting style was reflective of someone VERY comfortable with heavy duty cursing, like everyday language. Seems like a pretty tough girl--at least in her texting.
Cheerleader or not , I would not want to be on her bad side.

> Holly Bobo Case:

I know this is about Sierra La Mar, but does anyone else here that follows the Bobo case see some obvious similarities, Ir., Early morning,daylight, parents not there, no one saw her leave her house, personal items found several miles away, last convo with a friend at 7 am, and Scent dogs find abrupt ending of her trail? Curious, huh--although I don't know what it might mean IF anything:moo::waitasec:

Mom's wording about the clothes was confusing, not sure that she did not see them at all, will have to go back and look for it, it was from NG I think.

I agree about the texting style and that it could be important because of who she may have "attracted" or befriended.

Yes, some of us have mentioned Holly...one major difference here is that there was a whole day lost, whereas with Holly, it was a matter of minutes and still did not seem to help in finding/chasing/following the abductor...I do think this case is similar in that Sierra was probably quickly taken away in a vehicle, items being tossed on the way (?) and basically, could be anywhere. I don't think she will be found by the local searches, unless perhaps in water. A quiet neighborhood like that, one would thinki the abductor(s) would get clear of it as soon as possible. JMO

 

[Dee226]

New here. Great insights by all.

My thoughts:
I feel the clothes were packed because it was a Friday and she had plans to hang out with friends. If she had intentions of showering at the friend's home, then i'm sure she would want to put on fresh underclothes too and not the same ones she had on all day in school. That to me, says why the shoes weren't found, because she was going to wear them and only change the clothes.
As for the makeup and brush, her hair appeared to be curled in the photo taken that morning. Maybe she didn't want to brush the curls out and didn't take one. Her eye makeup was done and if all she needed was a lipstick/lip gloss, she could have carried that in her pocket.

I feel she knew who was in the car. If it was a stranger then the car would have to be close by and pulled up as soon as she reached the end of the driveway. I'm leaning more to her knowing the person driving or whoever else was in the car. I feel she was told she would be given a ride to school and when the vehicle wasn't going in that direction, she attempted to use her phone, and it was taken from her and tossed. I don't want to think what may have happened to her after that, but i think the purse was ditched later when no one was around.
I think there are people who know exactly what happened but don't want to rat on anyone.

I hope my hunches are wrong and she ran away and will return or be found safe.

 

[Plumeria5]

New here. Great insights by all.

My thoughts:
I feel the clothes were packed because it was a Friday and she had plans to hang out with friends. If she had intentions of showering at the friend's home, then i'm sure she would want to put on fresh underclothes too and not the same ones she had on all day in school. That to me, says why the shoes weren't found, because she was going to wear them and only change the clothes.
As for the makeup and brush, her hair appeared to be curled in the photo taken that morning. Maybe she didn't want to brush the curls out and didn't take one. Her eye makeup was done and if all she needed was a lipstick/lip gloss, she could have carried that in her pocket.

I feel she knew who was in the car. If it was a stranger then the car would have to be close by and pulled up as soon as she reached the end of the driveway. I'm leaning more to her knowing the person driving or whoever else was in the car. I feel she was told she would be given a ride to school and when the vehicle wasn't going in that direction, she attempted to use her phone, and it was taken from her and tossed. I don't want to think what may have happened to her after that, but i think the purse was ditched later when no one was around.
I think there are people who know exactly what happened but don't want to rat on anyone.

I hope my hunches are wrong and she ran away and will return or be found safe.

Great first post! Welcome! I agree with your theory. She went willingly then something went very wrong.

 

[katydid23]

New here. Great insights by all.

My thoughts:
I feel the clothes were packed because it was a Friday and she had plans to hang out with friends. If she had intentions of showering at the friend's home, then i'm sure she would want to put on fresh underclothes too and not the same ones she had on all day in school. That to me, says why the shoes weren't found, because she was going to wear them and only change the clothes.
As for the makeup and brush, her hair appeared to be curled in the photo taken that morning. Maybe she didn't want to brush the curls out and didn't take one. Her eye makeup was done and if all she needed was a lipstick/lip gloss, she could have carried that in her pocket.

I feel she knew who was in the car. If it was a stranger then the car would have to be close by and pulled up as soon as she reached the end of the driveway. I'm leaning more to her knowing the person driving or whoever else was in the car. I feel she was told she would be given a ride to school and when the vehicle wasn't going in that direction, she attempted to use her phone, and it was taken from her and tossed. I don't want to think what may have happened to her after that, but i think the purse was ditched later when no one was around.
I think there are people who know exactly what happened but don't want to rat on anyone.

I hope my hunches are wrong and she ran away and will return or be found safe.

GREAT first post. My thoughts exactly. :welcome: to WS.

 

[Plumeria5]

http://www.bnonews.com/inbox/?id=481

Latest news on the searches.

 

[liz b.]

Sorry Guy's, but I am just beginning to read the info on this case, and I have a few observations and (of course) questions:

Clothes:
> The fact that a change of underwear was found with the clothes makes me wonder-- if all she was going to do was change into or out of her clothes immediately why the "underwear"? I mean wouldn't she use the underwear she had on and just change the clothes? This to me would mean she did not want to wear the same underwear--for some reason right?

> They would not answer the question about urine on the clothes, leading one to believe there is some truth to that--does it have to only be urine? If urine, maybe it is animal from being left outside.
If they did not want to answer that question it also might mean it was some other fluid, like blood or semen.

>Wouldn't it seem if she did not pack those clothes "who" and "why" would they be folded "neatly", I mean just throw them in there--only if you did not want them to wrinkle would you care?

> Her mother said she had not seen the clothes LE found, so how did LE know they were hers?

>How do they Know the family have alibi's for the time she went missing, the exact time of her disappearance has not been determined. There is a window of some 11 hours?

Texting:
> LE said they traced her last text to her cell phone at home at 7am, Texts can be sent by anyone, right?

> With reference to "her" Texting style--Whoa!! Yes normal teens are not squeaky clean when talking or texting friends, that's a given. But her texting style was reflective of someone VERY comfortable with heavy duty cursing, like everyday language. Seems like a pretty tough girl--at least in her texting.
Cheerleader or not , I would not want to be on her bad side.

> Holly Bobo Case:

I know this is about Sierra La Mar, but does anyone else here that follows the Bobo case see some obvious similarities, Ir., Early morning,daylight, parents not there, no one saw her leave her house, personal items found several miles away, last convo with a friend at 7 am, and Scent dogs find abrupt ending of her trail? Curious, huh--although I don't know what it might mean IF anything:moo::waitasec:

" How do they know the family had alibis for the time she went missing,since her exact time of disappearance is not known ? There is a window of 11 hours "


Well, of course... How interesting... I * think * LE did say that the family members had passed LDTs...but still... MOO

 

[JDB]

Please everyone let's remember the family and the Mom boyfriend are not I repeat POI in this case. In fact the Father has stated the family has taken a lie detector test.

 

[GrainneDhu]

I can't see why her scent ending at the driveway rules out it being an opportunistic crime. Either way, her scent is going to be lost once she gets in the vehicle and the door is shut.
But even if planned, that plan could have been formulated in less than a minute, if some predator was driving nearby and happened to see her standing at the bus stop.

The bus stop is almost half a mile away at an intersection of through roads. Sierra would not have been just standing at the end of her own driveway, she would have been walking towards the bus stop; not long enough for a spur of the moment plan.

The end of the drive way is down a cul de sac that is clearly marked as such. It's not a good place to turn around because the little circle at the end is rather tight (doesn't even have an island). I would be amazed if a predator just happened to cruise down that street the instant Sierra left her house.

I honestly doubt that at that time of day, a driver at the entrance of the cul de sac could have even seen Sierra in her own driveway. Remember that dawn that day was at 7:12 am; that is a time of day when the sky is light but there's still a lot of shadow at ground level due to all the mature trees and shrubbery along the street. It's a great time of day to move on foot without being seen because the eye is reacting to the light of the sky and so is less acute to perceiving what is in the shadows.

It's not like there were a lot of kids (potential targets) living on that cul de sac; since Sierra was the only kid to use that bus stop, it's clear she was the only high school teen living on that cul de sac. In other words, no predator would see a stream of kids leading them back to the cul de sac because there wasn't one.

Again, had she made it to the bus stop, I would put the probability of a stranger abduction higher because the bus stop was exposed to more traffic going by. But the location of her driveway just does not suggest random traffic at all.

 

[voxrock2000]

Disturbingly, this case does fit a pattern of other recent cases. Early morning abductions. Including the 'last photo', as in the Katelyn Markham case. Almost as if its a trophy, or a taunt to loved ones. There are theories of long haul truckers or road construction transients have been made. This case does not fit the commonality of a 3 in the date of dissapearance though.

 

[GrainneDhu]

My daughter used to lose her phone a lot while outside. We'd often find it by "being really quiet" and dialing it to listen for the ringing. I think the idea of disposing it right by the entrance of the driveway would have resulted in it being discovered as soon as a parent tried to call Sierra to find out where she was.. JMO.

I think that there's at least a 50/50 chance that Sierra reflexively clamped down on whatever was in her hands when she was abducted.

Based just on my life experience and experience as a dog trainer, about half of all people tend to drop things when surprised. The other half tend to clutch things when surprised. I know of no way to predict from looking at a person which way they will go.

Whether the phone and bag went with Sierra inadvertantly because she clamped down on them or whether the abductor picked them up doesn't really matter, I think. They wound up in the perp's car and the perp threw them out very quickly.

As for fingerprints, I doubt there will be any that are not Sierra's. Surely everyone in th US knows by now that fingerprints can be used to identify a person! Plus, wearing latex or nitrile gloves gives a person a better grip, easier to hang onto someone who is struggling.

 

[90Nine]

I wish they could share why they think that now, but it is somewhat positive news.

"Now detectives think she may have voluntarily left with someone and that someone is stopping her from coming home."

http://abclocal.go.com/kgo/story?section=news/local/south_bay&id=8597447

 

[Niner]

First I personally want to say:

:welcome3:

I've seen quite a few new people!! :greetings:

Yep. Email sent to Sierra's mom, but she was at work and had no idea to check home email until later in the evening. Lot's of employees are forbidden from being on personal email by their employers. Sierra's mom did say she always called Sierra around 3:45pm (or so) and on the day Sierra went poof many calls made and no answer.

jumping off Ransom's post (#769 from Thread #4)
Now mom calls Sierra's phone at 3:45pm, can the LE tell 'where' that phone is at THAT exact time? I'm trying to understand if LE can track her "pings" from her phone as the car that picked her up would travel? Meaning they can say for sure she was at home at 7:11am when her text went thru, can they follow just the phone itself, i.e. down which road it went? Hope I made that clear?!! LOL! TIA!

 

[imkeylime]

Re Sierra's twitter. This is how a lot of kids talk in the area there. They use foul language, like many teens do when together, and they are into the whole "gansta" culture. The problem with social media that the teens fail to understand is the immaturity and lack of class that would be just a silly memory to them as adults, is now memorialized for ever, on the internet, when they post that stuff. Gosh, kids can be stupid.

About the area, Morgan Hill is sort of surrounded by farms and ranches and there is a mix of former Okies and rural Hispanics who settled in the surrounding areas. Many people still have a faint Arkansas, Oklahoman accent around there. Most of it is really quite different demographically from the college towns in the midst of it, and vastly different from Berkeley, San Francisco, Santa Cruz, etc.

I live on the opposite (east) coast, and it's not that different. Sierra reposted from others a lot and posted lyrics ... kids here do that, too. I've seen the drunk Cinderella reblog before ... and my daughter thought it was funny until we discussed it. I'm not crazy about Tyler the Creator (actually, that's an understatement), but my parents didn't like David Bowie/Ziggy Stardust, either. I do hate the misogyny in Tyler's lyrics, though.

IMO, girls at Sierra's age are often searching for their identity ... or even a new identity. I was struck by Sierra's comment about how much everything changed in a year. My daughter was bullied earlier this year over a boy and found that the girls she thought were "nice" were anything but. She's kind of "anti preppy" right now, because those were the girls who were mean. I wonder if Sierra might have gone through a similar thing.

I also think from reading her tweets and about her that she might have been leading almost a double life ... or at least wanted to.

 

[GrainneDhu]

I agree with you. And I'll up the ante.
On the Today Show, they were talking about how there are around 2,000 people who are reported missing every day.
So there were on average 1,999 other people they could have chosen to profile. That Klaaskids could have helped in their case.

And this case would languish in the backwaters with only the parents and and a overworked police force investigating, at least.

I always wonder about which cases get national media attention and which ones don't.
It seems to me this one was based on the "looks" of the victim.
Being an all American teenaged cheerleader, which may or may not be true.

Yet, it turns those ideas on their head when you read her "tweets".
And then to top it off, you are forced to look the other way when
an RSOs daughter is missing.
You have to accept him as "a victim".
Because this didn't happen to someone else's daughter, this time.

There are a lot of things about this case that are there to make you uncomfortable. To make your world view turn upside down.
To have her items missing both sound like product placement ads.
To wit: The beloved Samsung Galaxy Android Phone and the equally
beloved, Juicy Couture Bags.

I don't know what this says about where we are as a society.
But, it does make me wonder about the 1,199 kids and adults
that I will never hear about, while this case is a media darling.

I hope she is found safe.
I hope they all are, whoever, wherever, they are.

Fortunately, the vast majority of those 2000 people reported missing are found again within 7 days. Way less than 1 in 2000 remain missing longer than that.

Only about 100 children are abducted by strangers each year. That's about 1 in 3,110,000. To put it into perspective, you run a higher risk of being killed by lightning (1 in 2,650,000) than having your child abducted by a stranger each year.

 

[gitana1]

Texting:
> LE said they traced her last text to her cell phone at home at 7am, Texts can be sent by anyone, right?

> With reference to "her" Texting style--Whoa!! Yes normal teens are not squeaky clean when talking or texting friends, that's a given. But her texting style was reflective of someone VERY comfortable with heavy duty cursing, like everyday language. Seems like a pretty tough girl--at least in her texting.
Cheerleader or not , I would not want to be on her bad side.

Snipped by me for space. IMO, based on where she lives and the demographic there, as well as teens in general, Sierra is unlikely to be a tough girl at all. I live across from a high school in a mixed demographic that is in some ways similar to the demographic in her area - heavily working class Hispanic, working class whites, middle and some upper middle class of all ethnic backgrounds. The kids from the high school sit all over my yard, my stoop, outside my windows, etc. I hear how they talk. I see who fights and I know who are gang types or lowlifes, as opposed to the "normal" kids.

The cussing, the "you're my ho'", "Hey, b!tches", the "n" word and the F'bomb every two seconds, is, sadly, very normal and means nothing to them. It is not indicative of roughness, except in speech. These are just working class kids whose parents may be too busy or tired to monitor what they are saying on-line, how they are talking to their friends, etc.

I have also noticed that kids from her general region, rural-ish Bay Area and especially central California, tend to express themselves in this manner even more aggressively because they want to appear "gansta", appear "L.A.", more urban, more hip. It's like they are trying too hard because the areas they come from are not "cool", on-the-map regions.

From what I can tell, Sierra was not a rough girl, probably pretty sweet, maybe dabbled in pot a bit but I would doubt, very strongly, any serious gang or drug connections to this case. Mean girl-guy retribution thing? That I could see a bit more, or an abduction by an older person who knows her, like a friend's father, brother, uncle, cousin, or by a stranger, etc. But scary gang activity, drug activity, etc.? No.

 

[gitana1]

I wish they could share why they think that now, but it is somewhat positive news.

"Now detectives think she may have voluntarily left with someone and that someone is stopping her from coming home."

http://abclocal.go.com/kgo/story?section=news/local/south_bay&id=8597447

So, there is some hope. I wonder if her social media record indicates someone who may have been interested in her, or someone she was planning to get together with. So, it's someone she knows. I bet this is solvable. I pray it is.

 

[ziggy]

I just highly doubt she throws her cell phone and juicy coture bag away for that. Call me the big downer, but I just doubt it.

 

[GrainneDhu]

I know a lot of this is "standard procedure", and they dont have any other leads, but it just doesn't make sense to me.

In the latest press conference from Cardoza, he suggsets that they believe Sierra voluntarily got into a car with someone, but after that was taken against her will.

Looking at where the phone was, and the purse, its very likely that she never got out of the car once she got in.

The odds of finding any of these items in the area are very small, unless we dont know something about the phone or purse evidence.


I had another possible theory about the clothing in the purse, if it was in fact the clothes she was wearing and not a spare.

It would go something like this:

PerpS pickup Sierra at her driveway, and she gets in the back seat of a car. As they are driving they force her to remove all of clothing and put it in her bag. They then throw the phone and purse out the window. (They may have thrown them separately, just so the bag would be harder to find)

But in this scenario, I could see her in the back seat of a car with tinted windows, with one perp driving and another with a weapon on her. They have her remove her clothing so she'll be much less likely to get out of the car. This would also explain why the shoes weren't found. They could have been left on the floor of the car, and disposed of at a different site, or the perps dont even know and they are still there.

If this were the scenario, it would suggest they were planning on driving for quite some distance (because they wouldn't go through all that trouble of removing her clothing if they weren't) It would also suggest they weren't going to a very rural road, and possibly even through heavily trafficed areas.

Sadly though, this would also mean there might not be any other evidence anywhere near her home.

Just a possibility that I thought Id throw out there. The contents of that purse really change things, and the fact that they were "neatly folded' makes the above scenario less likely, but still possible.

My problem with the theory that the perp(s) forced Sierra to undress is that it doesn't fit with where her bag was found. Not enough time to take off the clothes in a car, fold them and place them in the bag before the bag was pitched out of the car.

I agree that it would be a good way to extend mental control over the victim but I just don't think it happened here.

I really think that, for whatever reason, Sierra packed a change of clothes before she left that morning.

I'd love to know what kind of trace evidence (if any) they found either inside or outside the bag.

 

[90Nine]

This to me seems like a disorganized, inexperienced person. There are no other cases in which clothes have been found neatly folded. That, to me, is a huge piece of an offenders pattern.

It could definitely happen, but I believe unlikely that someone had been stalking her and abducted her from her driveway. Her scent ended at the end of the driveway whic to me indicates she willfully approached the vehicle and likely knows the person. There must be evidence to support that she knows the individual if they are stating that in a press release - since LE has not disclosed so many of the details. They've interviewed hundreds of people, gone through her computer, cell phone, etc. to come to that conclusion. I'm even more inclined to believe that with the FBI's involvement.

I've been curious about the lack of a wallet and keys in the purse. Although, I believe it is possible that someone found the purse first, thinking it was just a purse with no meaning, and took the wallet and keys. One would hope they would return it, but I do know that some people find wallets, use the money and then are scared to return the item. This would indicate to me that in this scenario, a male came upon the purse since they left the purse and clothing. If that is even what happened. Far fetched, but someone else could have thrown the phone in the field. If an offender went to the trouble of disposing the purse and phone it seems logical that they would not keep any of her identifying information.

It also shows disorganiztion, lack of experience, by the method of disposal of the bag and phone. Did he/they do it in broad daylight? That is really risky to put a bright pink bag and phone out the door or window in daylight as it was. Santa Teresa has quite a bit of traffic, especially morning traffic. So that is also a question in my mind - how could someone not see a car pulled over or objects flying out the window. So did the offender disposed of the items in the morning or did he/they go back.

She talks on her Twitter about friends and how she has had problems with them recently and her anger about that. This could be females. Just pondering some ideas out loud.

I also believe she brought the change of clothes for something she had planned that night or the next day with friends/or possibly the offender/offenders.

One another note - there have been many cases where kids/friends of the victim don't intentionally hurt them, but a prank or 'lesson' turns bad.

Is there someone she isn't allowed to hang out with?

Then there are the cases like Cassie Jo Stoddard....

 

[nutkin]

Fortunately, the vast majority of those 2000 people reported missing are found again within 7 days. Way less than 1 in 2000 remain missing longer than that.

Only about 100 children are abducted by strangers each year. That's about 1 in 3,110,000. To put it into perspective, you run a higher risk of being killed by lightning (1 in 2,650,000) than having your child abducted by a stranger each year.

I don't see how that can be definitively said when so many children are never found, alive or dead.