CA CA - William Cierzan, 58, Santa Clarita Valley, 26 Jan 2017 #2

[Razz]

There HAVE been arrests and convictions without a body ....
Thanks so much , xmsmadex for the excellent timeline !!

Makes a few things about this case seem more clear ; imo.

I certainly have a theory -- which I'll be silent on , and wait for new developments.

Hoping for justice for Will. At this time I DO believe there's a need for justice and an account for what happened to him. I don't think he wandered off any more.
MOO

Sorry having trouble posting today as my WS page keeps 'bumping' down to the bottom and trying to scroll is all but impossible. Bleh....

That's why I went to Tapa Talk.
Good app!

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[katydid23]

There HAVE been arrests and convictions without a body ....
Thanks so much , xmsmadex for the excellent timeline !!

Makes a few things about this case seem more clear ; imo.

I certainly have a theory -- which I'll be silent on , and wait for new developments.

Hoping for justice for Will. At this time I DO believe there's a need for justice and an account for what happened to him. I don't think he wandered off any more.
MOO

Sorry having trouble posting today as my WS page keeps 'bumping' down to the bottom and trying to scroll is all but impossible. Bleh....

There have been convictions without a body. But it seems like they are usually younger , more dependent people, who were not as capsble or likely to have been able to run off and never be seen again.

The problem here is that this is a healthy, older man who might have had motives and resources to leave voluntarily. I do not think that he did so. But it might be harder to prove that he didn't.

 

[Razz]

This is sad and yet so true.

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Excellent timeline. I'm wondering if something should be said that he was cooking and that the chicken was on the stove when Linda got home.

The only reason that may be of value is to show WC actually was at home at 4:00 when he called her.

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[debbiegarcia36]

There HAVE been arrests and convictions without a body ....
Thanks so much , xmsmadex for the excellent timeline !!

Makes a few things about this case seem more clear ; imo.

I certainly have a theory -- which I'll be silent on , and wait for new developments.

Hoping for justice for Will. At this time I DO believe there's a need for justice and an account for what happened to him. I don't think he wandered off any more.
MOO

Sorry having trouble posting today as my WS page keeps 'bumping' down to the bottom and trying to scroll is all but impossible. Bleh....

Yes there have been convictions without a body but LE would need a signficant amount of evidence, a Motive, witness to prove a person was dead and to convict beyond a reasonable dpubt.

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[Dushi]

To date, I am not even sure LE thinks there has been a crime
This saddens me more than I can say JMO

 

[liz b.]

Here is a link that states that the nephew was at the house at 1:30 PM, so far its the only article I have found to have this time. I am not sure if this is hearsay or if it is true I believe it must have been form Peck or the nephews statement.
https://signalscv.com/2017/01/27/bizarre-disappearance-william-cierzan/

Here is my original timeline as well as pieces of the PC that I found very telling. The phone call timeline is at the bottom.
I am still looking into search areas, I am not sure there is enough information to make a map that exhibits areas that have actually been searched. I am only finding where searchers met and planned to search but not sure how far and which direction they went in.

Name: William John Cierzan
Age: 58
Last heard from: January 26, 2017
Left behind keys, wallet and car, there is conflicted reports as to whether these items were found inside the car or in the house.
Blood stains found inside residence, not confirmed as WC's
Serveillance footage catches white SUV backing into residence at
around 5:06 PM and leaves approximately 6 mins later at 5:12 PM
Things that stood out: Anything in () is further information or my opinion.
A reporter is questioning Det. Ralph Hernandez (one of the lead detectives) about the nephew.
Reporter: Was WC still at the house when he (nephew) left?
Det. Hernandez: pauses for a long time before answering yes.

When speaking about the white SUV
Reporter: Are we talking about two different relatives or is this the relative that was at the house with WC?
Det. Hernandez: Yes, the vehicle is very similar to the same relative. (it is most likely the nephews car)
Reporter: The relative that was at the house earlier, I read that they were watching sports, did they get into some kind of argument?
Det. Hernandez: We dont know what there interaction for the course of the day. (seems odd if in fact the nephew was questioned. He could be saying this because he does not want to state what their interaction was or do they
really not know?)

Timeframe:
Det. Hernandez: The window that we are looking for is right about 4 PM to just after 7 PM (this makes me believe
there was no 5 PM call, just the one that took place slightly after 4 PM, which seems to have been from WC to Linda,
a 6 PM call from Linda to WC where WC does not answer and then Linda arrives home just after 7 PM and WC is not there. The phone calls were made to and from his cell phone not a house phone, both Det. Hernandez and Linda seem very convinced he was at home during this time and not elsewhere, despite being on his cell phone)

Linda answers questions about WC that day
Reporter: Did you know the relative was over that day?
Linda: I didnt even know he was over that day, he (WC) hadnt mentioned him at all.
Reporter: Does he (nephew) come over frequently? Do they have a good relationship?
Linda: I thought so... I mean yea hes been over quite a few times. (Lindas demeanor during the response to this question makes her seem suspicious of the nephew, like she now has her doubts about how good their relationship really was)

Det. Hernandez answers a few more questions
Reporter: ... so he's (nephew) cooporating? (when this is asked, Linda is standing behind Det. Hernandez and she shakes her head no and lowers it)
Det. Hernandez: He uhh, he has provided a statement. (Body language says it all, I believe both Det. and Linda are very suspicious of nephew)


Timeline: Other than the 1:30 time, all other times are verified by PC
1:30 PM - I found one article where a 1:30 time is mentioned as to when the nephew was there watching golf.
I believe if this is more than hearsay that this time must have been mentioned by the nephew in his statement given to LE because Linda did not even know the nephew was there and therefore had no idea when he arrived or left.
4 PM - WC calls Linda
5:06 PM - SUV backs into driveway and leaves approx. 6 minutes later
6 PM - Linda calls WC and he does not answer
7 PM - Linda arrives home and WC is gone

So when WC began cooking dinner, around 4pm, he did NOT know his wife wouldn't be home until 7pm ? Otherwise, why start cooking so early ? Originally, I had read that during the 5pm call, she told him she was going to be late. There was a whole conversation reported, things that she and her husband supposedly said ?

 

[Razz]

So when WC began cooking dinner, around 4pm, he did NOT know his wife wouldn't be home until 7pm ? Otherwise, why start cooking so early ? Originally, I had read that during the 5pm call, she told him she was going to be late. There was a whole conversation reported, things that she and her husband supposedly said ?

During the PC and Linda herself never mentioned a 5:00 call.

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[LietKynes]

Just a quick thought... if the chicken was frozen when preparation was begun.. it could take a while.
I've started some chicken breast when it was only slightly thawed... and let it cook at lest 3 hours at low temps for max tenderness.

 

[LietKynes]

During the PC and Linda herself never mentioned a 5:00 call.

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RSBM

I hadn't heard about a 5pm call, either. Also it sounded like Will was fine when he spoke with his wife-- so if something happened, maybe it went down quickly and was a surprise ?
Thinking about a type of ambush...

Dark thoughts about what may have happened to WC. I would LOVE to be wrong and he just wanted some time to himself or start a new life.

 

[debbiegarcia36]

Here is a link that states that the nephew was at the house at 1:30 PM, so far its the only article I have found to have this time. I am not sure if this is hearsay or if it is true I believe it must have been form Peck or the nephews statement.
https://signalscv.com/2017/01/27/bizarre-disappearance-william-cierzan/

Here is my original timeline as well as pieces of the PC that I found very telling. The phone call timeline is at the bottom.
I am still looking into search areas, I am not sure there is enough information to make a map that exhibits areas that have actually been searched. I am only finding where searchers met and planned to search but not sure how far and which direction they went in.

Name: William John Cierzan
Age: 58
Last heard from: January 26, 2017
Left behind keys, wallet and car, there is conflicted reports as to whether these items were found inside the car or in the house.
Blood stains found inside residence, not confirmed as WC's
Serveillance footage catches white SUV backing into residence at
around 5:06 PM and leaves approximately 6 mins later at 5:12 PM
Things that stood out: Anything in () is further information or my opinion.
A reporter is questioning Det. Ralph Hernandez (one of the lead detectives) about the nephew.
Reporter: Was WC still at the house when he (nephew) left?
Det. Hernandez: pauses for a long time before answering yes.

When speaking about the white SUV
Reporter: Are we talking about two different relatives or is this the relative that was at the house with WC?
Det. Hernandez: Yes, the vehicle is very similar to the same relative. (it is most likely the nephews car)
Reporter: The relative that was at the house earlier, I read that they were watching sports, did they get into some kind of argument?
Det. Hernandez: We dont know what there interaction for the course of the day. (seems odd if in fact the nephew was questioned. He could be saying this because he does not want to state what their interaction was or do they
really not know?)

Timeframe:
Det. Hernandez: The window that we are looking for is right about 4 PM to just after 7 PM (this makes me believe
there was no 5 PM call, just the one that took place slightly after 4 PM, which seems to have been from WC to Linda,
a 6 PM call from Linda to WC where WC does not answer and then Linda arrives home just after 7 PM and WC is not there. The phone calls were made to and from his cell phone not a house phone, both Det. Hernandez and Linda seem very convinced he was at home during this time and not elsewhere, despite being on his cell phone)

Linda answers questions about WC that day
Reporter: Did you know the relative was over that day?
Linda: I didnt even know he was over that day, he (WC) hadnt mentioned him at all.
Reporter: Does he (nephew) come over frequently? Do they have a good relationship?
Linda: I thought so... I mean yea hes been over quite a few times. (Lindas demeanor during the response to this question makes her seem suspicious of the nephew, like she now has her doubts about how good their relationship really was)

Det. Hernandez answers a few more questions
Reporter: ... so he's (nephew) cooporating? (when this is asked, Linda is standing behind Det. Hernandez and she shakes her head no and lowers it)
Det. Hernandez: He uhh, he has provided a statement. (Body language says it all, I believe both Det. and Linda are very suspicious of nephew)


Timeline: Other than the 1:30 time, all other times are verified by PC
1:30 PM - I found one article where a 1:30 time is mentioned as to when the nephew was there watching golf.
I believe if this is more than hearsay that this time must have been mentioned by the nephew in his statement given to LE because Linda did not even know the nephew was there and therefore had no idea when he arrived or left.
4 PM - WC calls Linda
5:06 PM - SUV backs into driveway and leaves approx. 6 minutes later
6 PM - Linda calls WC and he does not answer
7 PM - Linda arrives home and WC is gone

Great timeline. Very accurate based on Linda and LE's own words. Congrats! You separated the wheat from the chaff!

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[liz b.]

During the PC and Linda herself never mentioned a 5:00 call.

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Yes, but just because that 5pm call wasn't discussed at the PC doesn't actually mean it never took place.

For sure, though, based on an analysis of his day, it becomes apparent very quickly that WC did NOT disappear voluntarily. If he was planning to leave, I believe he would have done so not long after his wife left for work that morning. I do not believe that he would have planned to leave, and then spent an entire afternoon watching golf on TV. And after that he spent time cooking dinner.
What I think happened is that he was expecting his wife to arrive home at her usual time. That is why he began cooking dinner so early, and in fact he called her at 4pm. I do think there was a 5pm call, and she told him she would be a few hours late. So, WC has dinner cooked, and a couple of hours to kill. He called the family member who had been over at the house earlier. WC wanted to go someplace, I have no idea where, or why. The family member shows up on the surveillance tape. He picks WC up. I believe there was no crime scene at the house, and no crime scene at the car. The actual crime scene was in a third, as yet unknown location. This scenario makes it very hard for LE to proceed. jmo

 

[xmsmadex]

So when WC began cooking dinner, around 4pm, he did NOT know his wife wouldn't be home until 7pm ? Otherwise, why start cooking so early ? Originally, I had read that during the 5pm call, she told him she was going to be late. There was a whole conversation reported, things that she and her husband supposedly said ?

Yes according to the PC he called her at approximately 4 pm and asked if she would be late, this is when she told him that she would be late, he told her not to rush. When she called back at 6 pm he did not answer. Det, Hernandez even states that the time they are looking at WC going missing is between 4-7 pm. Making that 4 pm call the last time Linda heard WC. I do not know why he cooked so early, perhaps he typically ate around that time and would heat it up for her if she got home late.

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[liz b.]

Yes according to the PC he called her at approximately 4 pm and asked if she would be late, this is when she told him that she would be late, he told her not to rush. When she called back at 6 pm he did not answer. Det, Hernandez even states that the time they are looking at WC going missing is between 4-7 pm. Making that 4 pm call the last time Linda heard WC. I do not know why he cooked so early, perhaps he typically ate around that time and would heat it up for her if she got home late.

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So when she took his 4pm call, she actually told him that she wouldn't be home until 7pm ? So, my original question was, if WC knew at 4pm that she wouldn't be home until 7pm, why would he start cooking at 4pm ? It has always seemed puzzling. Of course, another reason he could have cooked dinner so early. in spite of knowing his wife wasn't coming home until 7pm, is if he planned to go someplace after he prepared dinner, and before she returned home. I think that's what happened, but jmo.

 

[liz b.]

Yes according to the PC he called her at approximately 4 pm and asked if she would be late, this is when she told him that she would be late, he told her not to rush. When she called back at 6 pm he did not answer. Det, Hernandez even states that the time they are looking at WC going missing is between 4-7 pm. Making that 4 pm call the last time Linda heard WC. I do not know why he cooked so early, perhaps he typically ate around that time and would heat it up for her if she got home late.

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Does Det. Hernandez specifically say that the last time WC's wife heard from him was at 4pm ? TIA

 

[LietKynes]

Yes, but just because that 5pm call wasn't discussed at the PC doesn't actually mean it never took place.

For sure, though, based on an analysis of his day, it becomes apparent very quickly that WC did NOT disappear voluntarily. If he was planning to leave, I believe he would have done so not long after his wife left for work that morning. I do not believe that he would have planned to leave, and then spent an entire afternoon watching golf on TV. And after that he spent time cooking dinner.
What I think happened is that he was expecting his wife to arrive home at her usual time. That is why he began cooking dinner so early, and in fact he called her at 4pm. I do think there was a 5pm call, and she told him she would be a few hours late. So, WC has dinner cooked, and a couple of hours to kill. He called the family member who had been over at the house earlier. WC wanted to go someplace, I have no idea where, or why. The family member shows up on the surveillance tape. He picks WC up. I believe there was no crime scene at the house, and no crime scene at the car. The actual crime scene was in a third, as yet unknown location. This scenario makes it very hard for LE to proceed. jmo

SABBM

Or... WC was "Lured" ????
Sorry I have doubts about whomever interacted with Will that day---minus his wife of course.
Getting vibes that she is frightened for him .
MOO

 

[xmsmadex]

Does Det. Hernandez specifically say that the last time WC's wife heard from him was at 4pm ? TIA

No, Linda says that.

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[LietKynes]

Just a quick thought... if the chicken was frozen when preparation was begun.. it could take a while.
I've started some chicken breast when it was only slightly thawed... and let it cook at LEAST 3 hours at low temps for max tenderness.

Quoted myself to fix spelling.
Wish we could edit for a longer time period.

 

[xmsmadex]

So when she took his 4pm call, she actually told him that she wouldn't be home until 7pm ? So, my original question was, if WC knew at 4pm that she wouldn't be home until 7pm, why would he start cooking at 4pm ? It has always seemed puzzling. Of course, another reason he could have cooked dinner so early. in spite of knowing his wife wasn't coming home until 7pm, is if he planned to go someplace after he prepared dinner, and before she returned home. I think that's what happened, but jmo.

This is possible.

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[liz b.]

I read that there was a police presence at WC's house the same night he disappeared. And that LE was there for a week "looking for clues ". Does anyone local know if crime scene tape was placed around the parameter of the house ? Was it processed as a crime scene, I wonder ? TIA to anyone who knows.

 

[debbiegarcia36]

So when she took his 4pm call, she actually told him that she wouldn't be home until 7pm ? So, my original question was, if WC knew at 4pm that she wouldn't be home until 7pm, why would he start cooking at 4pm ? It has always seemed puzzling. Of course, another reason he could have cooked dinner so early. in spite of knowing his wife wasn't coming home until 7pm, is if he planned to go someplace after he prepared dinner, and before she returned home. I think that's what happened, but jmo.

She never says she will be home at 7. She says she will be late. I think that's why she called him at 6pm - to let him know she was on her way. Its about a 1 hour drive home, so if she left work at 6pm that would have her getting home at 7pm.

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