Calling the friends over?

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Nuisanceposter said:
I would have called police too - but - would you have failed to mention the threat to your child's life when calling police? Would you have told them the kidnappers say they're watching, so come in unmarked cars? I would have them right away that my child's life is threatened for god's sake don't them know I've called you! and I find it odd that the Rs didn't say that at all.

Calling friends and relatives for emotional support, sure - but asking them to come over, not knowing where the kidnappers are, and knowing they're said they'll cut your child's head off if you call anyone is different. Plus there's the risk that the 'napper is still nearby and could do anything to anyone at anytime. I don't want my friends and family coming over walking into danger.

And sending your other child out of the house and out of your presence - again, not knowing where the kidnappers are and knowing they've said they'll cut your child's head off simply does not make sense - unless they knew the RN was bogus to begin with.
Maybe, maybe, (but I seriously doubt it) I would call one set of very very close friends. I would not call two different homes and ask them over. At some point there were two couples and their Reverend. Since they really believed that JB was kidnapped, why didn't they believe that the kidnappers would kill her. They believe one part of the note and not another part.

They invited these people because Patsy knew that she was already dead.

But this leads to another question? Do you (anyone here) think that John knew before he went to the basement the first time? Orrrrrrrr, do you think he was aware before anyone was called that JB was dead?
 
southcitymom said:
Me too, Atomic! And I certainly wouldn't send my other child out of the house (like they sent Burke with the Whites) if I thought a kidnapper was out there with one of my children already.

This behavior just doesn't ring true. I can understand that different people handle things differently, but I can't understand parents of a kidnapped child not keeping the remaining child within the fold and under police protection.


UNLESS of course they don't want Burke to see JonBenet when she is found downstairs. :waitasec:
 
jubie said:
UNLESS of course they don't want Burke to see JonBenet when she is found downstairs. :waitasec:
I think Patsy purposely called these people so the house would be full and she would be surrounded and insullated and the police would have a very hard time asking her questions.

And it worked.
 
Calling freinds over is something you do if you are going to search fro a missing person. Then you want many people covering an area OUTSIDE. Calling friend over to your house does not make sense. You can search your house yourself and if the child is still in the house she is safe.

I think calling the friend over was something that the R's thought was something you do when your child is missing but didn't factor in what the people actually were going to do.
 
tumble said:
Calling freinds over is something you do if you are going to search fro a missing person. Then you want many people covering an area OUTSIDE. Calling friend over to your house does not make sense. You can search your house yourself and if the child is still in the house she is safe.

I think calling the friend over was something that the R's thought was something you do when your child is missing but didn't factor in what the people actually were going to do.


Actually it didn't make sense to call anyone over to search for her. She wasn't 'lost'. There was a ransom note idicating that a small foreign faction had her and that she'd be BEHEADED if they didn't follow the letters rules.

Light up the neighborhood folks let the act begin.


Respectfully

Jubie
 
Absolutely. Either the Ramseys didn't care if JonBenet's head was cut off, or they knew the ransom note was bogus.

My bet's on bogus.
 
Nuisanceposter said:
Absolutely. Either the Ramseys didn't care if JonBenet's head was cut off, or they knew the ransom note was bogus.

My bet's on bogus.



I think you should buy a lottery ticket today because your betting senses are bang on! :)
 
jubie said:
Actually it didn't make sense to call anyone over to search for her. She wasn't 'lost'. There was a ransom note idicating that a small foreign faction had her and that she'd be BEHEADED if they didn't follow the letters rules.

Light up the neighborhood folks let the act begin.


Respectfully

Jubie
I think PR thought it would be more beleivable if she had friends around to comfort her.After all,THEY didn't know she was dead.
I wouldn't necessarily beleive a RN.What if they'd abandoned the idea and she was left somewhere,hurt and afraid? I'd be inclined to search for any missing child,note or not.
 
I wouldn't necessarily beleive a RN.What if they'd abandoned the idea and she was left somewhere,hurt and afraid? I'd be inclined to search for any missing child,note or not.
You might not believe a RN, but you sure would not defy it by bringing in all of your friends through the front door. Not when the note said your daughter would be beheaded if you did so. Believable RN or not, WHO would take a chance with their daughter's life was at risk. (Except for someone who already knew the child was dead in the basement.)

And yes, I do agree that note or note, moms and dads both, would be searching their house from top to bottom while they were waiting for the police. And insisting the police do so with their help after they got there. Yes, there was a RN. But what if JBR had somehow gotten away or the kidnapper had gotten frightened away by a suspicious sound and left JonBenet scared, in shock and hiding under a bed, in the back of a closet or behind trash in the basement.

Moms don't just sit when they think there might be a chance they can find and save their baby. They help look. When there is any hope they look.

They sit in shock when they know the worst has occurred.
 
Personally, I think Patsy called her friends because the worst had happened and she needed their comfort.

According to the police, John was not comforting her or soothing her. I think Patsy needed people who loved her close.

BUT...if she had had any hope of ever finding JonBenet alive, she would never have taken the risk of allowing anyone to come through her front door. The stakes were too high for to take that kind of unnecessary risk. Not as long as the Ramseys had hope.
 
southcitymom said:
Ah....because you have a "missing" (dead) 6-year-old and someone's bound to notice right soon.
By Golly who would notice right soon?
 
kazzbar said:
i do not understand why if they thought JBR was kidnapped they would call friends over.I would be worried that someone was watching the house waiting for me to set a foot wrong.Thus giving an excuse to kill my daughter. I find the friends coming over on mass like a posse really strange.Yes, I could understand it if the visitors were all searching streets etc but by all accounts they were there to support the Ramsay's.As far as crime scenes go what better way to contaminate one than having unnecessary people traipsing through..Made worse by the fact that LE should have kicked them all out asap.Nothing in this case is usual though is it?

It appears that they were not taking the kidnapper's threats seriously -- they were told not to contact anyone, including the police, until they heard from the kidnappers again.

Since they may have written the note they knew disobeying the kidnapper's instruction wouldn't matter. They could disregard them with no consequences.
 
Personally, if I believed my child had been kidnapped, I WOULD phone the police (even though the note said not to) but I would IMPLORE them not to come to the house, at least not right away. I would have them sneak to my house, or deal with me over the phone, set up phone taps, etc.

Also, I am sure I would look to the police for guidance as to what is the right thing to do (makes it such a pity that the BPD was understaffed that day, obviously undertrained for this sort of thing!) One thing that is for sure, before I considered calling anyone over, I would have had LE determine that we ARE NOT being watched, and I would never have called friends over. I would phone friends (if the police said it was okay) to ask for their prayers and to be on standby if I need anything, to rack their brains and think of anyone who could want to do this to us, etc., but IF IF IF it ever occurred to me to have someone come over to support me in my crisis, I would ask for permission from the police on the scene, and I would accept it if they said no, not a good idea.

I am sure I would be looking to the police for guidance as to what I should or should not do. I would not even remotely consider getting on a plane and leaving town without checking if that is okay (half an hour after my child was found dead!) and after my child was found dead, I would cooperate like crazy.

I'm not sure what I would do about my remaining child. I might consider handing my son over to my best friend, as long as he had police protection, to get him away from the scene where LE is supposedly trying to recover a kidnapped child. I don't know that I would consider him safer if he stayed with me - I might worry about him witnessing the unfolding drama if he stayed home while we waited for kidnappers to call.

Just trying to put myself in the shoes of parents whose child has supposedly been kidnapped....
 
I've been inclined to believe that John and Patsy knew exactly what they were doing the morning of December 26th when they called a hoard of people over. It, IMO, was all part of the staging. The more people in the house, the more contaminated the crime scene.
 
I've been inclined to believe that John and Patsy knew exactly what they were doing the morning of December 26th when they called a hoard of people over. It, IMO, was all part of the staging. The more people in the house, the more contaminated the crime scene.
Naw, in my opinion, they weren't that good.

I think the Ramseys did it. But, although I am not sure which one or why, I do not think it was premeditated.

Other than lawyering up, I don't think the Ramseys plotted out how to contaminate the scene. I think Patsy called her friends because she was feeling terrible and the compassionate helpers (with the best of intentions) helped destroy evidence by wiping the counter tops and adding to the confusion.

For all the Ramseys knew the FBI would be there almost as soon as the police. But, I think they were so sure of themselves and that no one would doubt THEM that they thought they were good to go. (Which turned out to be unfortunately close to the truth.)

I think the Ramseys thought they had done a good job with the staging and RN and didn't realize the note would be traced to their own notepad or even remember the pineapple JonBenet had eaten earlier.

One of the most significant things about this murder scene is how badly it was done. The Ramseys, even after being given copies of past statements in advance of interviews tripped over themselves with inconsistancies and could not keep their stories straight. They locked themselves in early to lies they didn't have to tell, like not giving JB pineapple and made flimsey efforts to throw their employees and friends to the wind to try to save themselves.

They left hairs and fibers and even a Barbie nightgown to point in their direction and wiped down a note that SHOULD have had their prints on it. The only thing they did right was to be too prissy to stage a believable sex scene and therefore fail to leave DNA (as a real pedaphile would have).

The Ramseys were not good. They left clues. And then some.

Actually, there is no lack of credible evidence. Evidence, it is obvious from the early interviews that LE believed in.

As far as Lin Wood's claim that the investigation never was focused anywhere else, isn't that what EVERY lawyer uses to defend his client...Johnny Cochran and the "LAPD's rush to judgement", wasn't it said about Scott Peterson & Darlie?

As far as the evidence Lin Wood points to that is supposed to point to other suspects, in Lin Wood's own words the best he has is the RN & artifact D.N.A. that Mary Lacy, herself, said might not be related to the crime. Other cases that resulted in convictions had red herrings too. Darlie had the sock. There were unidentified fingerprints in Nicoles house and the mystery of why she had the candles lit, a bath drawn and was playing romantic music. A bushy haired stranger was sighted by people by the Country Club on the night Diane Down's kids were shot.

Lack of motive and no prior history, does not and should not carry the same weight as the evidence. And therefore it should not stand in the way of conviction.

There is a whole thread entitled evidence that leads away from Ramsey guilt and so far the only reason posted has been that parents would not do that kind of horrible thing to their child that they seemed to love.

No, it doesn't make sense. But, as nobody knows what goes on behind closed doors and trying to guess would only result in speculation, there are only the facts.

Each one, taken piece by piece maybe could be excused. But, when you look at the whole picture...they did it. That scenario could not have happened any other way.
 
Zelda said:
It appears that they were not taking the kidnapper's threats seriously -- they were told not to contact anyone, including the police, until they heard from the kidnappers again.

Since they may have written the note they knew disobeying the kidnapper's instruction wouldn't matter. They could disregard them with no consequences.
And here is the quandary!
If as some suggest, they just went to such incredible lengths to pen a ransome note with such dire threats against thier own daughter, with the sole purpose being to assist them in this supposed "cover up", then why disregard your own objectives?

Also, if as some suggest they knew their dead daughters body lay hidden in their home, why would they call anyone to the home who had the chance (no matter how small) of finding the body before them and leaving them no chance of contaminating the crime scene?
 
"Personally, I think Patsy called her friends because the worst had happened and she needed their comfort."

You mean a comfort zone between her and LE.

"As far as Lin Wood's claim that the investigation never was focused anywhere else, isn't that what EVERY lawyer uses to defend his client...Johnny Cochran and the 'LAPD's rush to judgement', wasn't it said about Scott Peterson & Darlie?"

Yup!

"As far as the evidence Lin Wood points to that is supposed to point to other suspects, in Lin Wood's own words the best he has is the RN & artifact D.N.A. that Mary Lacy, herself, said might not be related to the crime. Other cases that resulted in convictions had red herrings too. Darlie had the sock. There were unidentified fingerprints in Nicoles house and the mystery of why she had the candles lit, a bath drawn and was playing romantic music. A bushy haired stranger was sighted by people by the Country Club on the night Diane Down's kids were shot."

No real-life case clicks together down to the smallest detail as kosher as a Hollywood flick. Boulder DAs are trying to reinvent the wheel.

"Lack of motive and no prior history, does not and should not carry the same weight as the evidence. And therefore it should not stand in the way of conviction."

I've never put it quite that eloquently.

"If as some suggest, they just went to such incredible lengths to pen a ransom note with such dire threats against thier own daughter, with the sole purpose being to assist them in this supposed 'cover up,' then why disregard your own objectives?"

That's easy enough: when the kid was found dead, they could say that the "kidnapper" did it. Quite simple really. Not only that, but EVERYONE knew they had to leave early that morning to make their flight. Someone would have come looking for them.

"Also, if as some suggest they knew their dead daughters body lay hidden in their home, why would they call anyone to the home who had the chance (no matter how small) of finding the body before them and leaving them no chance of contaminating the crime scene?"

I don't think they had considered that. No one figures them ALL, 4sure. But, to attempt to answer your question, if one of their friends DID find the body, THEY would most likely contaminate the scene AND they would have witnesses to say that they were nowhere near it. Trouble is, John just couldn't handle the pressure and decided to retake control, IF he knew.

That's why.
 
I posted on another thread that my reasoning for Patsy's call to friends is that she wanted to shield herself from John, who already figured out what happened to his daughter.
 

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