Calling the friends over?

[Nuisanceposter]

Excellent first post, and welcome!

I agree, the very length of that note indicates Patsy much more so than John, plus it's too bizarre and outlandish to have come from the mind of a CEO. That was pure fantasy whipped up by an overly dramatic and panicked woman. I doubt John was part of the RN writing, but I really have to wonder about his claims that he took it to the hall and got on his hands and knees and read it on the floor spread out in front of him.

What? I can't name a single man in my sphere of relationships that would get down on the floor on his knees to read a three page letter. Men lean over a table or a counter, they don't get down on the floor.

And why did he allow Patsy to call friends over if he thought the RN was real? He had to have gotten to "if you talk to a stray dog, she dies" by the time Patsy was done calling 911. Why, if he hadn't been part of the staging, RN writing, etc, would he allow Patsy to jeopardize their daughter's head being attached to her body by calling over friends to come commiserate? Why would he allow Burke to leave the house, not knowing where these kidnappers were or what they might do, if he thought the RN was real?

He had to have known it wasn't.

 

[julianne]

RE: The cell phone records disappearing.

I don't fully understand in what context they disappeared. Phone companies billing and call history records are all computerized, even back in 1996--it's not like the companies store all their information on paper in big huge filing cabinets. Even if hard copy (paper) records came up missing, why couldn't they just be accessed from the computer and reprinted? If not, then that must mean that the records were deleted electronically on the computer? And if that is the case, doesn't that really thin out the list of people who could do this? It's not like any Joe Blow off the street could access their data. I would think very few, or a small select group, of phone company employees would have the clearance and ability to access and change those records, right?

 

[Veronica10]

Thank you for the warm welcome NuisancePoster. Your thoughts regarding John's letting Patsy to invite a swarm friends over despite the note's terrifying warning and also letting Burke out of his sight ring quite true. Maybe the silliness of the ransom note slipped by his discerning eye because he was too preoccupied. Possibly too preoccupied with the staging of the body?

Side note: Is there a thread on this forum that discusses the possibility of a rage incident occurring while Patsy was dyeing JonBenet's hair? In the pics leading up to Christmas it looks like JBR's roots are coming in...in the slight glimpses of hair in the gruesome autopsy photos, I do not see roots. I think JBR may have been snacking on the pineapple after Patsy put on the dye and was waiting for it to finish working. I have a funny feeling about the strange ponytail hairstyle. I don't think JBR went to the White's party that way. I can see the possibility of Patsy wanting to dye her hair prior to their trip to Michigan...maybe JonBenet started acting up during the dye's processing time. Just a different thought other than the bed-wetting theory.

 

[BBB167893]

"1) A terribly nervous father who was totally innocent of involvement in the murder/homicide/cover-up.

2) A confused father who highly suspected that the note was not ligitimate and after he discovered the body. He strongly felt that the entire scenerio was created by someone close to him.

3) A guilty father who could not face/support his accomplice.

4) A father who was guilty of prior abuse of JBR or at the very least guilty of earlier helping to cover-up that his son had crossed the line when 'playing doctor'."

Who knows?

"Everyone knew what? They should be going away but they decide to stay home for another day. This is problem why?"

I was thinking specifically of the pilot. Not only that, but this was a trip they'd been planning a while and the way they spoke about it NOTHING was going to delay it.

"How are they tipping their hand SD? What do you think someone like 'the pilot' Anceletta (im sure I butchered the spelling of his name) or their kids headed for Michigan would do or say later on."

Who knows what they would have said. You know what people are like. They think the worst at any given moment.

"Why write a ransome note with such incredible detail if you have no intention of moving the body from the home and following the instructions to your own benefit?"

Maybe they did plan to move the body. But the RN was just a distraction, in my view.

"Why create a cover up and then ignore it?"

Ignore it? They played it right to the bone! The RN's instructions being violated was the BEST excuse for her being dead they had! I can't say I would have done any different.

"That was pure fantasy whipped up by an overly dramatic and panicked woman."

That's my view. Ms, Fancy Actress-Journalist-Beauty Queen couldn't just leave a simple note. it's not her personality. Excuse me, WASN'T her personality.

 

[kayebee]

RE: The cell phone records disappearing.

I don't fully understand in what context they disappeared. Phone companies billing and call history records are all computerized, even back in 1996--it's not like the companies store all their information on paper in big huge filing cabinets. Even if hard copy (paper) records came up missing, why couldn't they just be accessed from the computer and reprinted? If not, then that must mean that the records were deleted electronically on the computer? And if that is the case, doesn't that really thin out the list of people who could do this? It's not like any Joe Blow off the street could access their data. I would think very few, or a small select group, of phone company employees would have the clearance and ability to access and change those records, right?

I don't know if the phone records disappeared--I may have missed that piece of information. What I have read before is that the Ramseys would not release the phone records to police, and the Boulder DA would not authorize a subpoena for the records. Phone records, as you may recall from the recent flap about phone companies releasing records to the government and also the current scandal at Hewlett Packard, are protected by various privacy laws.

On another note, I'd like to know where the "John is innocent" stuff is coming from. What evidence do people have that leads them to believe that John was not involved in the crime? The crime absolutely screams that two different people were involved: whoever wrote the ransom note didn't know the condition the body was in, and whoever staged the body didn't know what was written in the ransom note.

And for those of you who believe that John participated in only the cover up to protect Patsy--I can think of a few things I'd lie for my husband about, but murder, not to mention murder of my own child, is not one of them. This is a man who had already left one wife, for reasons I imagine fall short of murder. Divorce, even multiple divorces, and especially among the very wealthy, are common place. There's no stigma attached to it anymore. There is no way I would risk going to jail by participating in the cover up of a murder to save the murderer of my own child.

Somehow, they were both involved in this. And that's why together they cooked up this bizarre cover up, and were bound to one another until death.

Karen

 

[Solace]

I think Patsy purposely called these people so the house would be full and she would be surrounded and insullated and the police would have a very hard time asking her questions.

And it worked.

After reading a few posts by Rashomon regarding fibers, I think they invited the friends over intentionally, absolutely.

 

[BBB167893]

That, and his planning to leave the country. Remember, while Pam was out there going full-tilt toward vindication, he was planning to leave. if it were me, I'd have been doing handsprings in the aisles.

 

[Brefie]

Side note: Is there a thread on this forum that discusses the possibility of a rage incident occurring while Patsy was dyeing JonBenet's hair? In the pics leading up to Christmas it looks like JBR's roots are coming in...in the slight glimpses of hair in the gruesome autopsy photos, I do not see roots. I think JBR may have been snacking on the pineapple after Patsy put on the dye and was waiting for it to finish working. I have a funny feeling about the strange ponytail hairstyle. I don't think JBR went to the White's party that way. I can see the possibility of Patsy wanting to dye her hair prior to their trip to Michigan...maybe JonBenet started acting up during the dye's processing time. Just a different thought other than the bed-wetting theory.

Welcome!

Great theory / question / idea re: hair dye.

Does anyone know if that was tested for? I want to think that there would have been an obvious odor, but I am no expert.

 

[Nuisanceposter]

This has been talked about here before. I don't remember the details, and I didn't find where it was in a search.

Didn't police notice a strange odor in or near JonBenet's bathroom? Something like peroxide.

Personally, I think the hair styled like it was for a root touch-up last thing before bed sounds plausible, considering they were getting ready to leave for quite a while - not only the trip to Michigan to visit the older Ramsey kids, but there's the Disney cruise (complete with picture-taking opportunities everywhere you look) and the pageant Patsy was planning for after they got back (no doubt the touch-up and days in the sun would leave JonBenet's hair the picture perfect Malibu Barbie shade of blonde that Americans admire so very much.)

 

[BBB167893]

Welcome, Veronica10.

(Forgot my manners!)

 

[Solace]

Excellent first post, and welcome!

I agree, the very length of that note indicates Patsy much more so than John, plus it's too bizarre and outlandish to have come from the mind of a CEO. That was pure fantasy whipped up by an overly dramatic and panicked woman. I doubt John was part of the RN writing, but I really have to wonder about his claims that he took it to the hall and got on his hands and knees and read it on the floor spread out in front of him.

What? I can't name a single man in my sphere of relationships that would get down on the floor on his knees to read a three page letter. Men lean over a table or a counter, they don't get down on the floor.

And why did he allow Patsy to call friends over if he thought the RN was real? He had to have gotten to "if you talk to a stray dog, she dies" by the time Patsy was done calling 911. Why, if he hadn't been part of the staging, RN writing, etc, would he allow Patsy to jeopardize their daughter's head being attached to her body by calling over friends to come commiserate? Why would he allow Burke to leave the house, not knowing where these kidnappers were or what they might do, if he thought the RN was real?

He had to have known it wasn't.

Hi NP,

I like your sign off a lot.

Also, Veronica made a good point about John being savvy and would not let Patsy write a note like that.

But then you said he would not have let her call the friends if he thought it was real.

He knew. I agree. He knew. Now was he abusing her?

 

[Veronica10]

Solace,

I'm not exactly sure why but whenever the question comes up regarding JR molesting JBR I tend to think no. I think he was too uninvolved in the kid's lives and I think he knew what Patsy was capable of. I think she was a different person behind closed doors to say the least. She wanted everyone to see her as a prim and proper Southern lady. I think she was very capable of hysterical rage.

I think John knew better than to screw around at home like that. I think he would have been scared of Patsy. Maybe I'm just being naive but I don't think he would do that. His sex life with Patsy may have been non-existant but that's what call girls are for...he was on the road quite a bit. I think his Fatal Attraction affair taught him to be very discreet. That lesson most likely taught him to never have another emotional affair while married.

I think even if he did have the inclination to touch a child he would not have done it in Patsy's house.
Like I said maybe I'm just clueless but I always think he didn't.

 

[Solace]

Solace,

I'm not exactly sure why but whenever the question comes up regarding JR molesting JBR I tend to think no. I think he was too uninvolved in the kid's lives and I think he knew what Patsy was capable of. I think she was a different person behind closed doors to say the least. She wanted everyone to see her as a prim and proper Southern lady. I think she was very capable of hysterical rage.

I think John knew better than to screw around at home like that. I think he would have been scared of Patsy. Maybe I'm just being naive but I don't think he would do that. His sex life with Patsy may have been non-existant but that's what call girls are for...he was on the road quite a bit. I think his Fatal Attraction affair taught him to be very discreet. That lesson most likely taught him to never have another emotional affair while married.

I think even if he did have the inclination to touch a child he would not have done it in Patsy's house.
Like I said maybe I'm just clueless but I always think he didn't.

Veronica,

Hi and welcome. I don't think you are clueless at all. I was discussing this with my son. We had both agreed that John would not risk everything by molesting JB. But then again, my son brought up a good point. He said John had lost his first daughter, Patsy was sick and he may very well have gravatated to JB. Reading John Douglas' book after he describes an incident and the only reaction I have is "whaaaaaaaaaaa" and then you read on and he "Douglas" explains why and you say "ohhhhhhhhhhh, okay".

I can see John doing this. I was completely against this before. But pilings from John's robe were found in her underwear. Now either the robe was washed with the underwear, or John was closer than he says, ORRRR, someone used the robe to wipe JB off, which the coroner says is what happened that she was wiped down.

Veronic, what happened? I am dying to know.

 

[Veronica10]

If he did touch her a hope he rots in hell for a 10 million years on top of the 10 million years he'll already rot for covering up her death. I have no idea what happened that night but I always wonder if Patsy was scared to die...scared that she would see JonBenet again, or Jesus (since she was so religious). Maybe John was doing something inappropriate with JBR and the ensuing Patsy rage caused her death. I hope someone talks!

 

[Solace]

If he did touch her a hope he rots in hell for a 10 million years on top of the 10 million years he'll already rot for covering up her death. I have no idea what happened that night but I always wonder if Patsy was scared to die...scared that she would see JonBenet again, or Jesus (since she was so religious). Maybe John was doing something inappropriate with JBR and the ensuing Patsy rage caused her death. I hope someone talks!

Hope someone talks. I would pay money, if I had any, to hear someone talk.

You know what the parents did this thing and they have had such a great time with their lawyers spinning the bullshi$% nonstop that they have me doubting that John was involved.

I think they were both involved. And I think that it is just what it seems, JB was being sexually molested and John is the one.

I do not know how she died. But Patsy wrote the note.

She was being molested.

 

[Toltec]

That's my view. Ms, Fancy Actress-Journalist-Beauty Queen couldn't just leave a simple note. it's not her personality. Excuse me, WASN'T her personality.[/QUOTE]

Exactly SD....Patsy never did anything half-a$$.

 

[julianne]

I have read many times that the phone records "disappeared."

I have also read that they just couldn't get the released.

Does anyone know which one (or both) is true?

 

[4sure]

But, in my opinion, as the next day dawned, the prospect of moving the body didn't seem so simple. Who knew what neighbor might be peering out of a window?

.

Thanks for your input Jolynna. So many of you have such well thought out opinions on this case.
However didn't the garage have a door which led to the house on the inside of the home? If so, then couldn't the body have been placed in the car with no chance of any peering neighbor's seeing anything?

 

[Brefie]

Thanks for your input Jolynna. So many of you have such well thought out opinions on this case.
However didn't the garage have a door which led to the house on the inside of the home? If so, then couldn't the body have been placed in the car with no chance of any peering neighbor's seeing anything?

True, but imagine she was found a short distance away, and you have parents denying leaving the house, but 3 residents saying they SAW them leaving the house in the wee hours. They would look EVEN MORE GUILTY!

 

[Eagle1]

Probably there was some hair dye thing going on, since there was a peroxide odor in the bathroom, but they'd finished it and JonBenet's hair was dry, remember.

And someone had put her hair up and used strips of fabric from the toy loom outfit as hair bows which didn't at all match what she was wearing. I would not think a mother like Patsy would use the wrong color, even if she/they really had been involved in some way in what happened.

"What if" all the friends were aware of and submitting to that international pedophile ring which supposedly had just been busted in Boulder, but surely not all of them were caught? And that might explain why both the parents of JBR were taking anti depressants and anti-ANXIETY meds to sleep?

Why no security precautions? Maybe they were in denial because of the meds? Or had to go along with whatever was going on in order to keep succeeding in business and pageants? (FW had done even better in business, some posters have pointed out, but didn't have his little girl in pageants, whatever that distinction possibly means. Some very destructive people surely felt it was "big-headed" of the R's to be exploiting a child that way and may have been very determined to teach them a big lesson. )

There have been posts stating the dark blue or black fibers were not for sure identified as from the bath robe. There had also been a sort of towel the same color in JR's golf bag.

I highly doubt that JonBenet would have been in JR's bed, with PR there in the room. And there were rope fibers found in JBR's bed.