Calling the friends over?

[Nuisanceposter]

It seems too long and detailed to just be there to misdirect attention...until you consider that drama queen attention ho Patsy wrote it. Then it makes perfect sense - she was all caught up in theatrics and didn't know when to stop.

 

[rashomon]

True, but imagine she was found a short distance away, and you have parents denying leaving the house, but 3 residents saying they SAW them leaving the house in the wee hours. They would look EVEN MORE GUILTY!

So true.The garage could be accessed fom the house, but still residents could have seen the Ramsey car leaving the house in those wee hours.

 

[4sure]

until you consider that drama queen attention ho Patsy wrote it..

Forgive me if I'm wrong Nuisanceposter but the hostile and vicious childish name calling would lead me to believe you don't like Patsy on a personal level. If you knew her personally than your opinion would certainly outweigh mine, however if it is based only from what media related sources we all have seen it becomes difficult to dicuss the case with someone who retains such a baseless and preconceived bias.

 

[jubie]

Forgive me if I'm wrong Nuisanceposter but the hostile and vicious childish name calling would lead me to believe you don't like Patsy on a personal level. If you knew her personally than your opinion would certainly outweigh mine, however if it is based only from what media related sources we all have seen it becomes difficult to dicuss the case with someone who retains such a baseless and preconceived bias.

Your reaction to Nuisanceposter suggests to me you knew Patsy personally and feel the need to strongly support her public image. Just sayin.


An 'attention ho' is not a 'sexual *advertiser censored*'. The term is to describe a person over the top in their desire to seek attention. From what we're learned over the last ten years I think it's pretty safe to say Patsy liked the spotlight a tad more than the average woman. :twocents:

NP, Hope you don't mind I responded I couldn't resist.

 

[Peter Hamilton]

4sure--no it wasn't--the RN was not "too" long for that purpose in the Ramsey's eyes--of course it was overkill toeveryone else,but the Ramsey's didn't have much experience in writing these things,you know--

 

[wenchie]

It's noteworthy (to me) that after an initial cursory search to make sure that Burke was there, Patsy did not do any searching of the house.

Who could just sit there while everyone else was searching? What mother wouldn't join in?


Patsy hid Jonbenet's body, so she couldn't let herself be the one who found her - she had to distance herself from it. She also didn't need to search, because she already knew where she was.

Screams guilty, guilty, guilty to me.

 

[narlacat]

It's noteworthy (to me) that after an initial cursory search to make sure that Burke was there, Patsy did not do any searching of the house.

Who could just sit there while everyone else was searching? What mother wouldn't join in?


Patsy hid Jonbenet's body, so she couldn't let herself be the one who found her - she had to distance herself from it. She also didn't need to search, because she already knew where she was.

Screams guilty, guilty, guilty to me.

Exactly.

Screams guilty guilty guilty to me too.

 

[rashomon]

Originally Posted by wenchie
It's noteworthy (to me) that after an initial cursory search to make sure that Burke was there, Patsy did not do any searching of the house.

Who could just sit there while everyone else was searching? What mother wouldn't join in?


Patsy hid Jonbenet's body, so she couldn't let herself be the one who found her - she had to distance herself from it. She also didn't need to search, because she already knew where she was.

Screams guilty, guilty, guilty to me.

Exactly.

Screams guilty guilty guilty to me too.

ITA: guilty, guilty, guilty.

And when Fleet White shouted (after JB's body had been found), and Priscilla and Barbara Fernie hurried toward the sound, Patsy did not even move from the couch.
I think Patsy knew all along where JB would be found, for she herself had helped put her there.

 

[Nuisanceposter]

NP, Hope you don't mind I responded I couldn't resist.

I don't mind at all. Thanks.

No, I did not know Patsy on a personal level, but my impression of her being someone who likes a good bit of attention and drama is based upon not only the information I have learned about who Patsy was through the years but also from what people who did know her personally have said about her.

John Andrew Ramsey described her as "flashy." In DOI, John Ramsey says Patsy does not know the meaning of "low profile." She was known to go to extravagant lengths to put on a presentation, whether it was remodelling her home (in Boulder, Atlanta, and Charlevoix), putting her daughter in pageants (the feathered Vegas showgirl costume that left other pageant mothers abuzz comes to mind), decking out for the Parade of Homes Tour (eight fully decorated Christmas trees throughout the house left tour guests talking of the excess), or the infamous Gone With the Wind themed office luncheon that ended up costing thousands of dollars more than perhaps it should have (some $30,000 - for an office lunch!). There are countless stories of Patsy going farther than she needed to for the sake of drama and attention.

Believe it or not, calling Patsy a drama queen and an attention ho was not meant to insult her as much as to call it like I see it. She was a person who, according to family and friends, loved attention and enjoyed being dramatic. I think she wrote the RN, and I think the RN stays true to Patsy's character - it's completely over the top.

And good point, people, about her not joining in the search. She didn't get up and hunt for her child as well because she knew her child was dead in the basement. Didn't even get up from the couch!

 

[Solace]

I don't mind at all. Thanks.

No, I did not know Patsy on a personal level, but my impression of her being someone who likes a good bit of attention and drama is based upon not only the information I have learned about who Patsy was through the years but also from what people who did know her personally have said about her.

John Andrew Ramsey described her as "flashy." In DOI, John Ramsey says Patsy does not know the meaning of "low profile." She was known to go to extravagant lengths to put on a presentation, whether it was remodelling her home (in Boulder, Atlanta, and Charlevoix), putting her daughter in pageants (the feathered Vegas showgirl costume that left other pageant mothers abuzz comes to mind), decking out for the Parade of Homes Tour (eight fully decorated Christmas trees throughout the house left tour guests talking of the excess), or the infamous Gone With the Wind themed office luncheon that ended up costing thousands of dollars more than perhaps it should have (some $30,000 - for an office lunch!). There are countless stories of Patsy going farther than she needed to for the sake of drama and attention.

Believe it or not, calling Patsy a drama queen and an attention ho was not meant to insult her as much as to call it like I see it. She was a person who, according to family and friends, loved attention and enjoyed being dramatic. I think she wrote the RN, and I think the RN stays true to Patsy's character - it's completely over the top.

And good point, people, about her not joining in the search. She didn't get up and hunt for her child as well because she knew her child was dead in the basement. Didn't even get up from the couch!

Excellent point about her not getting up to look for her. Also, John started from the basement up. I have asked several people a question regarding same and where they would look for their child in their hosue if she were missing and inevitably they all say, "where she was last". That would have been her bedroom. The reason some have said is because there might be a clue left either by her or someone else. They would start where she was last seen alive.

What I find interesting about his case though is the fact that John and Patsy stayed together. I do not think they would stay together if John were molesting JB and that is the reason for her death.

It is more than likely that John has decided to believe Patsy and stay with her and that Patsy did the killing.

Or else the two of them are just out of their minds and killing their kid just doesn't bother them.

 

[rashomon]

What I find interesting about his case though is the fact that John and Patsy stayed together. I do not think they would stay together if John were molesting JB and that is the reason for her death.

This is indeed one of the pivotal questions in the JBR case: what tied the Ramseys together despite the fact that they (imo) both knew what had happened on that fatal night? Why did they cover up for each other?
Imagine having to go on living with a spouse who killed your own child (even if it was 'only' in a rage) - wouldn't this be sheer hell?
Maybe Patsy threatened John: "you help me in the cover-up or I'll expose you as a child molester!"
And John could have threatened her too: "you keep your mouth shut about the molestation or I'll tell the world that it was you who bashed JB's head in!"

Was it this common guilt which tied the Ramseys together?
Or did they cover up for Burke? Not because Burke killed JB, but because they wanted to spare him the horrible experience of seeing his mother exposed in public as the one who killed his little sister in a rage?

 

[BBB167893]

NP, I'm behind you as well.

 

[Nuisanceposter]

Thank ya kindly.

 

[4sure]

I don't mind at all. Thanks.

No, I did not know Patsy on a personal level, but my impression of her being someone who likes a good bit of attention and drama is based upon not only the information I have learned about who Patsy was through the years but also from what people who did know her personally have said about her.

John Andrew Ramsey described her as "flashy." In DOI, John Ramsey says Patsy does not know the meaning of "low profile." She was known to go to extravagant lengths to put on a presentation, whether it was remodelling her home (in Boulder, Atlanta, and Charlevoix), putting her daughter in pageants (the feathered Vegas showgirl costume that left other pageant mothers abuzz comes to mind), decking out for the Parade of Homes Tour (eight fully decorated Christmas trees throughout the house left tour guests talking of the excess), or the infamous Gone With the Wind themed office luncheon that ended up costing thousands of dollars more than perhaps it should have (some $30,000 - for an office lunch!). There are countless stories of Patsy going farther than she needed to for the sake of drama and attention.

Believe it or not, calling Patsy a drama queen and an attention ho was not meant to insult her as much as to call it like I see it. She was a person who, according to family and friends, loved attention and enjoyed being dramatic. I think she wrote the RN, and I think the RN stays true to Patsy's character - it's completely over the top.

And good point, people, about her not joining in the search. She didn't get up and hunt for her child as well because she knew her child was dead in the basement. Didn't even get up from the couch!

Of course you and the others may be quite right about her personality traits. However none of those traits makes her a murderer. This country is full of people who "love attention and enjoy being dramatic."
At the risk of again sounding like I am defending Patsy I must point out that Patsy is not the only person in the world who goes to great lengths to remodel their home or enters their daughters in pageants or spends too much money on partys. Actually in my line of work I run into a great deal of people who seem to have no problem spending money with reckless abandon.
Your opinion that Patsy wrote the RN is a valid one and indeed a possibility. However I cannot use the fact that Patsy was "flashy" to call it a fact.

Let me also say that the fact that Patsy did not join the search would seem to be the actions of someone who is underplaying her role. If Patsy was trying to be "over the top" and true to her personality I would imagine her making much more of a frantic scene during the day.

 

[LinasK]

Which is an excellent explanation until you consider the note itself. It is much to long and detailed to be written by someone just trying to misdirect attention. Perhaps all this is the work of someone with experience and knowledge on how to present such a crime scene.

Sorry, no experienced kidnappers leave ransom notes that are 3 pages long- it would be 1 max! Besides kidnappers who murder don't molest inside the home and leave the body there- there's never been another case like this one because the parents were stupid criminals with no prior knowledge of how to stage a crime scene, except for their extensive knowledge of crime novels and movies.

 

[rashomon]

Let me also say that the fact that Patsy did not join the search would seem to be the actions of someone who is underplaying her role. If Patsy was trying to be "over the top" and true to her personality I would imagine her making much more of a frantic scene during the day.

Oh, she did: she threw herself theatrically over JB's dead body, then (ST, p. 30)
rose to her knees, her arms straight overhead and called out: "Jesus! You raised Lazarus from the dead, raise my baby from the dead!" The woman seemed ready to swoon.

A classic 'drama queen' performance imo. The woman had sat frozen on the couch during the search, and now suddenly when her dead child has been found, switches gear and acts like on a stage.

Don't get me wrong: Being a drama queen does not make Patsy a killer. But dragging her child into her own drama queen lifestyle by dressing her up like a hooker may very well have made JB sexually interesting to other people, and one of these people could even have been JB's own father.

 

[Eagle1]

Not denying PR was more competitive than most of the wives, and teaching JBR to be that way too, just as her mom had taught her.

They probably considered it hard to be friends with her. And I'm not defending her either.

 

[4sure]

Oh, she did: she threw herself theatrically over JB's dead body, then (ST, p. 30)
rose to her knees, her arms straight overhead and called out: "Jesus! You raised Lazarus from the dead, raise my baby from the dead!" The woman seemed ready to swoon.

A classic 'drama queen' performance imo. The woman had sat frozen on the couch during the search, and now suddenly when her dead child has been found, switches gear and acts like on a stage.

Don't get me wrong: Being a drama queen does not make Patsy a killer. But dragging her child into her own drama queen lifestyle by dressing her up like a hooker may very well have made JB sexually interesting to other people, and one of these people could even have been JB's own father.

Once agian some of you are not happy unless your slinging insults.

 

[4sure]

Sorry, no experienced kidnappers leave ransom notes that are 3 pages long- it would be 1 max! Besides kidnappers who murder don't molest inside the home and leave the body there- there's never been another case like this one because the parents were stupid criminals with no prior knowledge of how to stage a crime scene, except for their extensive knowledge of crime novels and movies.

Why do you assume it has to be "experienced" kidnappers?

 

[BBB167893]

"At the risk of again sounding like I am defending Patsy I must point out that Patsy is not the only person in the world who goes to great lengths to remodel their home or enters their daughters in pageants or spends too much money on partys. Actually in my line of work I run into a great deal of people who seem to have no problem spending money with reckless abandon.
Your opinion that Patsy wrote the RN is a valid one and indeed a possibility. However I cannot use the fact that Patsy was 'flashy' to call it a fact."

I don't know, 4sure. Michael Kane is on public record saying that the crime was a very theatrical production and she's a very theatrical person. It fits her personality.

"Let me also say that the fact that Patsy did not join the search would seem to be the actions of someone who is underplaying her role. If Patsy was trying to be 'over the top' and true to her personality I would imagine her making much more of a frantic scene during the day."

Why, when she could milk sympathy from her friends by weeping on the couch (and watching through her fingers to see if they were buying it)? Besides, Rashomon is right: the minute the body was found, she was on full speed.

"Sorry, no experienced kidnappers leave ransom notes that are 3 pages long- it would be 1 max! Besides kidnappers who murder don't molest inside the home and leave the body there- there's never been another case like this one because the parents were stupid criminals with no prior knowledge of how to stage a crime scene, except for their extensive knowledge of crime novels and movies."

LinasK's analysis is supported by the bulk of FBI profilers. The person who did this only knew crime from Hollywood.