Deceased/Not Found Canada - Alvin, 66, & Kathy Liknes, 53, Nathan O'Brien, 5, Calgary, 30 Jun 2014 - #10

[wendiesan]

Absolutely. They were retiring to a condo in Mexico, and that they would be splitting their time between that Mexico vacation property and a home in Edmonton. It is not acceptable to hide finances. Was this couple bankrupt, vacationing in Mexico, or hoping for the best of both worlds ... in terms of benefit and cost ... a la ... certified general accountant ... et al ... where are the assets?

I'm a little confused by your post, Otto. There is nothing inherently wrong with becoming a "snowbird".

He’s a golfer and he was just ready to start to retire. He was the same age as me; he had a place down in Mexico and was going to spend six months up there, six months up here. They were just a very normal family. Everything about them was kind of average, really, as far as I know they sure weren’t wealthy. I don’t understand why this happened at all.

(http://globalnews.ca/news/1453658/m...-were-nathan-obrien-alvin-and-kathryn-liknes/)

In an age of electronic signatures, faxes, text messages, and emails, and at a time when you don't even have to appear in person to complete the sale of a home, wrapping up the details on a business in which AL was only one of several directors could have been done from any location: Edmonton, Calgary, Banff, Jasper, Spokane, Seattle, Los Angeles, or Mexico City. Geographical location would have made little if any difference in anything other than the form of communication being used, IMO. So planning to spend the cold months in Mexico and the warmer months in Canada doesn't seem to be a nefarious plot. Also, JMO, but the property in Edmonton could have been bought to be rented out while AL and KL were in Mexico so it could have been used to generate income.

Given that most bankruptcies in Canada "are eligible for discharge after the minimum period of nine months" (http://www.bankruptcy-canada.ca/bankruptcy/length-of-bankruptcy.htm) it is very likely that both AL and KL had completed all the conditions required to have their bankruptcies discharged well before the disappearances. It's possible that the Calgary house had been sold in order that KL could satisfy the bankruptcy trustees even though it was listed only in AL's name.

The couple, whose love was “rock-solid,” sold the property in May 2013 for about $700,000, but continued living there while getting their affairs in order. The next chapter in their 35-year partnership was to take them south to a family property in Mazatlan, Mexico.

(http://metronews.ca/news/calgary/11...e-put-family-first-had-eyes-on-new-adventure/) From what I've read, they each had declared personal bankruptcy only once, and there were no lawsuits pending.

Therefore, their assets were nobody's business but their own, and they were free to use their money as they chose. (My guess is that whatever assets were left following the bankruptcies are clearly listed in AK's and KL's wills.) The bankruptcy of the company of which he was one of the directors shortly before his disappearance would not have affected AL's personal finances. AL's business bankruptcies would have led to the loss of company assets, not his own.

Apparently DG was paid by AL for whatever work he did. (http://news.nationalpost.com/2014/0...glas-garland-over-patent-calgary-family-says/) If DG had expected more money than he received from AL for the work he did on one of AL's patent applications, he had more than enough opportunity to sue him or to dispute the discharge of AL's bankruptcy. In fact, I find it more suspicious that DG did not sue for more money, because that indicates to me that AL had paid him an agreed to amount and had the paperwork to back up his claim.

I don't think that their personal bankruptcies had anything to do with the crimes against AL and KL, and could have had nothing to do with NO's disappearance and presumed murder.

FYI: Since you brought up CGAs:

Trustees are the most highly trained and educated Debt Consultants in Canada. Almost all trustees have both an accounting designation and a university degree. In addition, all must complete and pass a rigorous three-year bankruptcy and law course and be investigated by the RCMP before being granted a trustee license. Ongoing professional development is mandatory.

Trustees may also act as debt counsellors. They may also advise clients to consult an insolvency lawyer.

ETA http://www.bankruptcy-canada.ca/bankruptcy-trustee.htm

 

[wendiesan]

Following on from a post re bankruptcy up-thread

Bankruptcy can, in fact, be a person's best option. Last year, 2013, in Canada, 118,678 people declared bankruptcy. Of that number, a sizeable number (8,358) were declared in Alberta. (http://bankruptcy-canada.com/bankruptcy/bankruptcy-canada-statistics/) There are, unfortunately, some myths about filing for bankruptcy which might be colouring the perception of AL and KL. I think that at least two of those myths have been raised in posts re AL and KL's finances since the first thread regarding Nathan and his grandparents.

1. Filing for bankruptcy will negatively affect a spouse. "A bankruptcy will only affect the person filing and not in any way reflect on the spouse, including the spouse's credit rating, if the spouse is not responsible for any of the debt." (http://bankruptcy-canada.com/bankruptcy/bankruptcy-canada-statistics/)

2. People who file for bankruptcy have questionable characters and are trying to rip off other people. "Most of the people who file bankruptcy are good, honest, hard-working people who file as a last resort after months or years struggling to pay the bills left ore from some catastrophic event or set of circumstances…The bankruptcy laws in Canada have been designed so that a debtor may receive an homiest and legal elimination of their debts, while still protecting the debtors' creditors." (http://bankruptcy-canada.com/bankruptcy/bankruptcy-canada-statistics/)

 

[Hez]

I'm a little confused by your post, Otto. There is nothing inherently wrong with becoming a "snowbird". (http://globalnews.ca/news/1453658/m...-were-nathan-obrien-alvin-and-kathryn-liknes/)

In an age of electronic signatures, faxes, text messages, and emails, and at a time when you don't even have to appear in person to complete the sale of a home, wrapping up the details on a business in which AL was only one of several directors could have been done from any location: Edmonton, Calgary, Banff, Jasper, Spokane, Seattle, Los Angeles, or Mexico City. Geographical location would have made little if any difference in anything other than the form of communication being used, IMO. So planning to spend the cold months in Mexico and the warmer months in Canada doesn't seem to be a nefarious plot. Also, JMO, but the property in Edmonton could have been bought to be rented out while AL and KL were in Mexico so it could have been used to generate income.

Given that most bankruptcies in Canada "are eligible for discharge after the minimum period of nine months" (http://www.bankruptcy-canada.ca/bankruptcy/length-of-bankruptcy.htm) it is very likely that both AL and KL had completed all the conditions required to have their bankruptcies discharged well before the disappearances. It's possible that the Calgary house had been sold in order that KL could satisfy the bankruptcy trustees even though it was listed only in AL's name. (http://metronews.ca/news/calgary/11...e-put-family-first-had-eyes-on-new-adventure/) From what I've read, they each had declared personal bankruptcy only once, and there were no lawsuits pending.

Therefore, their assets were nobody's business but their own, and they were free to use their money as they chose. (My guess is that whatever assets were left following the bankruptcies are clearly listed in AK's and KL's wills.) The bankruptcy of the company of which he was one of the directors shortly before his disappearance would not have affected AL's personal finances. AL's business bankruptcies would have led to the loss of company assets, not his own.

Apparently DG was paid by AL for whatever work he did. (http://news.nationalpost.com/2014/0...glas-garland-over-patent-calgary-family-says/) If DG had expected more money than he received from AL for the work he did on one of AL's patent applications, he had more than enough opportunity to sue him or to dispute the discharge of AL's bankruptcy. In fact, I find it more suspicious that DG did not sue for more money, because that indicates to me that AL had paid him an agreed to amount and had the paperwork to back up his claim.

I don't think that their personal bankruptcies had anything to do with the crimes against AL and KL, and could have had nothing to do with NO's disappearance and presumed murder.

FYI: Since you brought up CGAs: Trustees may also act as debt counsellors. They may also advise clients to consult an insolvency lawyer.

ETA http://www.bankruptcy-canada.ca/bankruptcy-trustee.htm

BBM - Great post. I really resent the implication that the financial situation of the grandparents contributed in any way to this horrendous crime, or that they were preparing to 'skip town'. People have financial difficulties and declare bankruptcy all the time. DG is clearly a very disturbed, unpredictable individual who has been living on the wrong side of the law for a very long time. I'm glad he is behind bars and no longer roaming free to cook meth, steal dead people's identities, or get into 'disputes' with any other innocent victims. :jail:

 

[Deleted member 117120]

My best friend lives in Airdrie, about 5 minutes from DG's parent's place - she said there has been a lot of helicopter activity today overhead

I haven't seen any news twitter feed or MSM articles with updates on this case. Very quiet.
I wonder if this helicopter activity is that specialized one that searches for ground changes.

 

[otto]

I found something kind of interesting re Winter Petroleum. There are meeting minutes from Mackenzie County available at www.mackenziecounty.com. In. The meeting minutes from June 12, 2012 it appears that AL appeared to discuss payment arrangements for Winter's municipal tax debt. A motion 12-06-392 to make an arrangement and report back. At the following meeting an update was tabled. Further, at the county's 2 meetings in June 2014 motions were made and carried "That administration proceeds with tax recovery options for Winter Petroleum as discussed."

So it appears that at one point AL was attempting to make arrangements to pay the municipal taxes owing .... perhaps there just wasn't enough money coming in to pay.

Sorry I couldn't do better with my links, I'm on my phone and at work so it's a bit difficult.

I was in the process of researching that as well ... trying to figure out how long there was outstanding debt.

 

[otto]

Absolutely. They were retiring to a condo in Mexico, and that they would be splitting their time between that Mexico vacation property and a home in Edmonton. It is not acceptable to hide finances. Was this couple bankrupt, vacationing in Mexico, or hoping for the best of both worlds ... in terms of benefit and cost ... a la ... certified general accountant ... et al ... where are the assets?

I'm a little confused by your post, Otto. There is nothing inherently wrong with becoming a "snowbird". (http://globalnews.ca/news/1453658/m...-were-nathan-obrien-alvin-and-kathryn-liknes/)

In an age of electronic signatures, faxes, text messages, and emails, and at a time when you don't even have to appear in person to complete the sale of a home, wrapping up the details on a business in which AL was only one of several directors could have been done from any location: Edmonton, Calgary, Banff, Jasper, Spokane, Seattle, Los Angeles, or Mexico City. Geographical location would have made little if any difference in anything other than the form of communication being used, IMO. So planning to spend the cold months in Mexico and the warmer months in Canada doesn't seem to be a nefarious plot. Also, JMO, but the property in Edmonton could have been bought to be rented out while AL and KL were in Mexico so it could have been used to generate income.

Given that most bankruptcies in Canada "are eligible for discharge after the minimum period of nine months" (http://www.bankruptcy-canada.ca/bankruptcy/length-of-bankruptcy.htm) it is very likely that both AL and KL had completed all the conditions required to have their bankruptcies discharged well before the disappearances. It's possible that the Calgary house had been sold in order that KL could satisfy the bankruptcy trustees even though it was listed only in AL's name. (http://metronews.ca/news/calgary/11...e-put-family-first-had-eyes-on-new-adventure/) From what I've read, they each had declared personal bankruptcy only once, and there were no lawsuits pending.

Therefore, their assets were nobody's business but their own, and they were free to use their money as they chose. (My guess is that whatever assets were left following the bankruptcies are clearly listed in AK's and KL's wills.) The bankruptcy of the company of which he was one of the directors shortly before his disappearance would not have affected AL's personal finances. AL's business bankruptcies would have led to the loss of company assets, not his own.

Apparently DG was paid by AL for whatever work he did. (http://news.nationalpost.com/2014/0...glas-garland-over-patent-calgary-family-says/) If DG had expected more money than he received from AL for the work he did on one of AL's patent applications, he had more than enough opportunity to sue him or to dispute the discharge of AL's bankruptcy. In fact, I find it more suspicious that DG did not sue for more money, because that indicates to me that AL had paid him an agreed to amount and had the paperwork to back up his claim.

I don't think that their personal bankruptcies had anything to do with the crimes against AL and KL, and could have had nothing to do with NO's disappearance and presumed murder.

FYI: Since you brought up CGAs: Trustees may also act as debt counsellors. They may also advise clients to consult an insolvency lawyer.

ETA http://www.bankruptcy-canada.ca/bankruptcy-trustee.htm

True. There is nothing wrong with splitting time between a home in Edmonton and a condo in Mexico. Some people do have two homes in two countries. My point was that the couple was unclear about what their plans would be after vacating the home they rented. Additionally, there was a suggestion that the couple were completely broke and didn't in fact own any property. That is contradicted by statements the couple made about having homes in two countries.

I doubt that many people would be interested in renting a property for six winter months each year in Edmonton.

My understanding from the comments made to the media is that Garland expected recognition for an alteration he made to the patent design ... most likely in the form of being listed as a co-inventor.

 

[SLT]

Apologies if this has already been posted, but a body has just been found in a pond in the NE quadrant of Calgary. No idea if it is at all related (but it's not really an everyday occurrence here....)
http://globalnews.ca/news/1472493/body-discovered-in-pond-in-northeast-calgary/

 

[SLT]

It was just off of Stoney Trail, which a major road for us that skirts around the city and connects with Deerfoot Trail. It's a very common way for people who live out of town to travel to and from the city.

 

[goodasgold]

Apologies if this has already been posted, but a body has just been found in a pond in the NE quadrant of Calgary. No idea if it is at all related (but it's not really an everyday occurrence here....)
http://globalnews.ca/news/1472493/body-discovered-in-pond-in-northeast-calgary/

How close is this to the Liknes property and DG acreage?

 

[appleeye]

While I pray it is them... someone is about to find out about a missing loved one. (((hugs))) go out to the universe.

 

[SLT]

How close is this to the Liknes property and DG acreage?

To Airdrie, it would be about a 15 minute drive from this pond. The road goes around the city, so it's all fields on the right hand side, and communities to the left (if you were travelling north towards Airdrie)

From the Liknes neighborhood, which is on the far West end of the city, you would cut across town on 16th Ave (also known as the Trans Canada highway) to access Stoney Trail....probably 25 minutes without traffic.

 

[goodasgold]

To Airdrie, it would be about a 15 minute drive. The road goes around the city, so it's all fields on the right hand side, and communities to the left (if you were travelling north towards Airdrie)

Oh wow, it could be one of these victims then. imo

 

[Deleted member 117120]

Why on the fifth day was JO brought into the home by LE if it was determined that murder had taken place? Is that standard procedure especially if evidence of blood was visible in the home? Is it normal that a family member is allowed to enter a murder scene if it is still under investigation? She was quite collected when the media coverage shot her exiting the home as she removed the blue foot covers. Her family members were sitting in the driveway while she entered the home. I just have a hard time believing the murders took place in the home.

LoisLane, respectfully I recall that particular day and the photo you speak. It has actually been in my thoughts since then because to me it showed the opposite of what you saw. If you look at the photo I see devastation and physical illness. Following her out of the home was her step brother or brother (not sure of which). I don't believe according to the photos available from MSM that JO's husband went into the home with LE on that occasion. I don't think it would have been for closure but rather for investigative reasons that JO and AL's son went into the home that day with LE.


http://news.nationalpost.com/2014/07/04/violent-incident-happened-at-home-where-missing-5-year-old-and-grandparents-were-last-seen-police-say/
Clearer photo of JO in this link that truly says it all imo. Very heartbreaking.

 

[PrincessButtercup]

LoisLane, respectfully I recall that particular day and the photo you speak. It has actually been in my thoughts since then because to me it showed the opposite of what you saw. If you look at the photo I see devastation and physical illness. Following her out of the home was her step brother or brother (not sure of which). I don't believe according to the photos available from MSM that JO's husband went into the home with LE on that occasion. I don't think it would have been for closure but rather for investigative reasons that JO and AL's son went into the home that day with LE.
View attachment 55544

http://news.nationalpost.com/2014/07/04/violent-incident-happened-at-home-where-missing-5-year-old-and-grandparents-were-last-seen-police-say/
Clearer photo of JO in this link that truly says it all imo. Very heartbreaking.

It's her younger brother JL who is the child of KL and AL so her half brother.

 

[SLT]

Looks like the police have closed the ramp from 16th Avenue onto Stoney Trail now, and homicide is enroute.

 

[Deleted member 117120]

How close is this to the Liknes property and DG acreage?

Would this be linked to the posts about helicopter activity near the farm today as per up thread?

 

[PrincessButtercup]

Looks like the police have closed the ramp from 16th Avenue onto Stoney Trail now, and homicide is enroute.

Omg .. my stomach is in knots.

 

[Deleted member 117120]

http://www.calgarysun.com/2014/07/24/body-discovered-floating-in-calgary-pond

"Floating near the middle of the pond, the body appears to be an adult male wearing a white T-shirt".

 

[otto]

LoisLane, respectfully I recall that particular day and the photo you speak. It has actually been in my thoughts since then because to me it showed the opposite of what you saw. If you look at the photo I see devastation and physical illness. Following her out of the home was her step brother or brother (not sure of which). I don't believe according to the photos available from MSM that JO's husband went into the home with LE on that occasion. I don't think it would have been for closure but rather for investigative reasons that JO and AL's son went into the home that day with LE.

http://news.nationalpost.com/2014/07/04/violent-incident-happened-at-home-where-missing-5-year-old-and-grandparents-were-last-seen-police-say/
Clearer photo of JO in this link that truly says it all imo. Very heartbreaking.

Thanks. I remember that photo as well and I see what you see. Nathan's mom looks disturbed as a result of viewing the home interior.

 

[SLT]

http://www.calgarysun.com/2014/07/24/body-discovered-floating-in-calgary-pond

"Floating near the middle of the pond, the body appears to be an adult male wearing a white T-shirt".

Probably a new occurrence, then, I would imagine?