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That is sickening. Sadly, DG doesn't have anything but an impounded old truck for assets. I wonder if his parents will put up the Airdrie acreage?
Deceased/Not Found Canada - Alvin, 66, & Kathy Liknes, 53, Nathan O'Brien, 5, Calgary, 30 Jun 2014 - #11
- Thread starter Sillybilly
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I can see a change in venue but the CPS has been so tight lipped about evidence that the pool of jurors aren't really tainted by this knowledge. And because this was national news it is hard to think of a venue where the pool of jurors would not know the theories and details that have been reported in the press.
They might do so because they feel obligated to avoid creating any further expenses for the province that their son (allegedly) has done. How many police officers searched for how many days? But I do not think, based on the Willy Picton case, that they will be compelled to become impoverished (by selling the acreage) to pay for DG's defense.
From your link, I think the following might apply:
The Profile of a Violent Serial Offender
"• Usually some kind of neglect or abuse in childhood, although not necessarily physical abuse
• Not usually psychotic, although not necessarily normal. Very psychotic people are the ones who make mistakes and get caught after their first crime.
• Craves power and domination.
• Many have always been quiet and shy and have never achieved much - which is why they crave power and domination. For example, a sex offender probably feels he can't get a woman any other way, but if he forces himself on one then kills her he has possessed her utterly.
• Don't kill on impulse. Think long and hard about what they're doing. It's the most important thing in their lives and they want to get it right.
• Sometimes they want to be caught as it will make them famous and give them lots of attention. What's the point in killing lots of people really cleverly if no-one knows about it?
• Killers who take the time to dispose of the body well, such as in a river, are often older. "
http://www.mitchpileggi.net/Deep_Background/resources/forensics/forpsych.htm
On what grounds should there be a change of venue?
I think he is on legal aid. I think he is pleading poverty, which is why the Judge ruled that he could stay at a homeless shelter when he was on bail for the identity theft charges, and it wouldn't surprise me if Kim Ross hasn't already put things in motion to have his legal fees covered.
I don't think they should even consider it. That is their home and their livelihood. They shouldn't give up their assets for a 54 year old son that is accused of murder.
Each time I check the headlines, a part of me is hoping the headline will be: Bodies of Nathan, Kathryn, and Alvin Found. Are police still looking? I haven't read anything about a continued search for a body. Alvin's son received a map from RCMP and he's riding the back roads looking close to the road, as he doesn't believe that Garland's truck could cut through fields. Community search parties were asked to stop searching, perhaps because rural people didn't like strangers of unknown origin asking if they could look around the property because of the murders. That could place rural homeowners at risk. Are the police still looking for bodies, are Search & Rescue waiting for a location to search? A 1993 truck wouldn't have any computer bits, and if he left his cell phone at home, the only way to trace his movements might be with CCTV.
Did investigators find something at the acreage, under the tent, that told them the story? Did police continue their search after the second crime scene was analysed, but this time for a weapon? What do we think is going on with the investigation ... aside from the prosecutor preparing to release discovery on Aug 16 ... or is it Aug 14? I think he was arrested on July 15 and charged on July 16, so I guess 30 days is Aug 14 ... is that a Friday?
What could have been found in that scorched earth at the South side (middle) of the property? It wasn't a composting area, as that would be closer to the garden and the green house. It shouldn't be something that belongs in the burning barrels/incinerators at the end of the trees near the green house. Maybe it's a place to bury the oil change by-products. Maybe it's a place to put something like acid on a body and then burn the bones. The truck could have been backed into that area between June 30 and July 4 ... it would show on the grass.
There was a woman from NC that helped murder her husband's ex-wife in order to take control of the children. They took her body to Florida (I think ... somewhere swampy and hot) and she bought some sort of acid, as another plan was to make the body disappear. Ultimately, they decided to feed the mom of two to the alligator swamp in the middle of the night. Amanda Hayes ...
"Brad Wichard, a homicide detective for the Fort Bend County Sheriff's Office, said a security camera captured Amanda Hayes dumping four cartons – containing seven unopened one-gallon bottles of acid – at the end of a cul-de-sac 1.6 miles from the home of her sister, Karen Berry.
An eighth bottle, he said, was missing. ...
Security video and a receipt from the store indicate Grant Hayes bought four containers of [muriatic] acid, as well as a 32-gallon trash can and a large-sized pair of long-cuff neoprene chemical-resistant gloves."
http://www.wral.com/hayes-wife-dump...xas-crime-scene/12854919/#Xhg2gvPE35OsF8PF.99
This is another case of the murderer knowing the victim, the victim being murdered in his home, and the body being hidden. Is it a characteristic of murderers that know their victims to more likely remove the body from the crime scene?
Did investigators find something at the acreage, under the tent, that told them the story? Did police continue their search after the second crime scene was analysed, but this time for a weapon? What do we think is going on with the investigation ... aside from the prosecutor preparing to release discovery on Aug 16 ... or is it Aug 14? I think he was arrested on July 15 and charged on July 16, so I guess 30 days is Aug 14 ... is that a Friday?
What could have been found in that scorched earth at the South side (middle) of the property? It wasn't a composting area, as that would be closer to the garden and the green house. It shouldn't be something that belongs in the burning barrels/incinerators at the end of the trees near the green house. Maybe it's a place to bury the oil change by-products. Maybe it's a place to put something like acid on a body and then burn the bones. The truck could have been backed into that area between June 30 and July 4 ... it would show on the grass.
There was a woman from NC that helped murder her husband's ex-wife in order to take control of the children. They took her body to Florida (I think ... somewhere swampy and hot) and she bought some sort of acid, as another plan was to make the body disappear. Ultimately, they decided to feed the mom of two to the alligator swamp in the middle of the night. Amanda Hayes ...
"Brad Wichard, a homicide detective for the Fort Bend County Sheriff's Office, said a security camera captured Amanda Hayes dumping four cartons – containing seven unopened one-gallon bottles of acid – at the end of a cul-de-sac 1.6 miles from the home of her sister, Karen Berry.
An eighth bottle, he said, was missing. ...
Security video and a receipt from the store indicate Grant Hayes bought four containers of [muriatic] acid, as well as a 32-gallon trash can and a large-sized pair of long-cuff neoprene chemical-resistant gloves."
http://www.wral.com/hayes-wife-dump...xas-crime-scene/12854919/#Xhg2gvPE35OsF8PF.99
This is another case of the murderer knowing the victim, the victim being murdered in his home, and the body being hidden. Is it a characteristic of murderers that know their victims to more likely remove the body from the crime scene?
WARNING GRAPHIC
Maybe the accused put all three victims in the back of his truck, drove to the acreage, backed his truck to the scorched earth pit that was under police tents, dumped bodies, returned to the crime scene for some reason (why?), poured muriatic acid on the bodies, burned the clothes, burned the bones over two days ... waited to see if he got caught.
Maybe the accused put all three victims in the back of his truck, drove to the acreage, backed his truck to the scorched earth pit that was under police tents, dumped bodies, returned to the crime scene for some reason (why?), poured muriatic acid on the bodies, burned the clothes, burned the bones over two days ... waited to see if he got caught.
Attachments
I originally thought that DG may just have gone to confront AL or steal the estate proceeds... But that was until the first-degree murder charges. LE must have proof of intent to lay that charge.
Crystalina5
New Member
Hi Otto....
Here's what I think is going on:
I believe the murders at L's home happened quickly and in a very traditional, old-school kind of way (blunt object ie crowbar, hammer, pipe etc as opposed to a gun with a silencer or any kind of poisons etc).
I think the perp got in fast, then got out fast. I don't think he spent any time at all cleaning up inside, since ROs friend recounted "all the blood" that poor JO found. I don't think anyone left that house alive that night
Once the perp, presumably DG, got back to the farm with the bodies, I think THAT is where things get a bit hinky. Part of me wonders if he stopped somewhere to dump or bury them....but mostly I'm leaning toward some sort of chemical being used by DG to dissolve as much as he could of the bodies, since he has a chemistry background.
If there is any reasonable indication to LE that the bodies are still whole enough to be found, then I have no doubt they are still searching...I just think its unlikely. Also, even if the bodies are intact, can they offer that many clues considering the heat outside and all the weather elements after this length of time? Probably not.
I have a feeling that we will have big surprises during discovery on August 14!
(The following link indicated next step in process is the 14th)
http://m.torontosun.com/2014/07/16/...en-liknes-family-appears-in-calgary-courtroom
Crystalina5
New Member
Proof of intent might be in how he disposed of bodies.
Hi Otto....
Here's what I think is going on:
I believe the murders at L's home happened quickly and in a very traditional, old-school kind of way (blunt object ie crowbar, hammer, pipe etc as opposed to a gun with a silencer or any kind of poisons etc).
I think the perp got in fast, then got out fast. I don't think he spent any time at all cleaning up inside, since ROs friend recounted "all the blood" that poor JO found. I don't think anyone left that house alive that night
Once the perp, presumably DG, got back to the farm with the bodies, I think THAT is where things get a bit hinky. Part of me wonders if he stopped somewhere to dump or bury them....but mostly I'm leaning toward some sort of chemical being used by DG to dissolve as much as he could of the bodies, since he has a chemistry background.
If there is any reasonable indication to LE that the bodies are still whole enough to be found, then I have no doubt they are still searching...I just think its unlikely. Also, even if the bodies are intact, can they offer that many clues considering the heat outside and all the weather elements after this length of time? Probably not.
I have a feeling that we will have big surprises during discovery on August 14!
(The following link indicated next step in process is the 14th)
http://m.torontosun.com/2014/07/16/...en-liknes-family-appears-in-calgary-courtroom
Gut feeling is knife meticulously place under the ribs pointing up. That would be fatal, perhaps a slow bleed like Travis Alexander. I don't think he hesitated with his victims as he was determined to win ... to commit planned and deliberate murder. There is a drag mark spanning 24 feet on the side of the house (media length estimate). A fatal knife wound, and bludgeoning, could result in those drag marks. I don't know about a gunshot. There is information about Garland having weapons, and maybe he was a machinist carefully sculpting the perfect silencer for a sawed off shotgun ... for example.
I can't forget the prosecutor spouting off to the media, where he mentioned "bullets". There was some question as to whether he was thinking gun bullets, or point form bullets. He should constrain his remarks to the courtroom. Talking to the media is equivalent to trying the case in the media, which doesn't happen in Canada. If the man wants to be on TV, he should be a comedian ... with his "bullet" oxymoron.
I don't think that police are still searching. If they were, the media would be all over it. The search stopped after searching the second crime scene: Airdrie acreage.
Crystalina5
New Member
Hmmmm so what do you think cops found at the Airdrie crime scene that would convince them to stop searching for the bodies?
Given the absence of searches, I'm inclined to believe that the remains have been found.
"Defence counsel Kim Ross waived formal reading of the charges and asked that the case be adjourned to Aug, 14 as he awaits disclosure of the police investigation."
Link
Will the date for a preliminary hearing be set at the hearing on August 14?
The next request will be for a media ban ... for the preliminary hearing. That is the crown's chance to point out that there is no question that the accused is guilty.
Crystalina5
New Member
Yes, I believe so.
Will the prosecution's discovery findings be disclosed to the public?
Will the prosecution's discovery findings be disclosed to the public?
I don't think so. I think that if there is anything relevant in what the prosecutor has to say at the preliminary hearing (or in the news), it will be presented at trial - the only place where it is relevant. It's a bit like throwing spaghetti at the wall with some idea about the spaghetti. In the case of Russell Williams, former commander of the Canadian military and violent sexual predator, he conceded guilt during the first hearing to protect his wife from a prolonged media campaign and property loss. The preliminary hearing is to find out more about the accused and I doubt the proceedings can be released to media. There's no reason for that information to be released as it is nothing more than one of the processes that are part and parcel of the evidence. During trial, everything that is relevant will be presented in court and released by media ... in about 18-24 months.
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