Deceased/Not Found Canada - Alvin, 66, & Kathy Liknes, 53, Nathan O'Brien, 5, Calgary, 30 Jun 2014 - #11

[2Hope4]

:snooty: Nope...my mind won't go there. I cannot think such. :snooty:

No child should be murdered EVER. That's the worse of the worse. I refuse to think he suffered. :whine:

Torture the perp until he tells where their bodies are... I can go with that. IMO, there should be laws allowing such! Maybe after trial, and found guilty, but torture in exchange for the innocent bodies, yup. The perps should NOT be allowed to keep that information . No. Whatever it takes, make 'em tell!!! In the recent murder trial of Randy Taylor MURDERER of Alexis Murphy, he maintained he was innocent, oh, but, he'll tell where her body is for a reduced sentence. Her parents said NO! We don't bargain with murderers! Sadly, unless he tells, or some hunter or hiker finds her, they may never know. :tantrum:

 

[Krystine]

:snooty: Nope...my mind won't go there. I cannot think such. :snooty:

No child should be murdered EVER. That's the worse of the worse. I refuse to think he suffered. :whine:

Torture the perp until he tells where their bodies are... I can go with that. IMO, there should be laws allowing such! Maybe after trial, and found guilty, but torture in exchange for the innocent bodies, yup. The perps should NOT be allowed to keep that information . No. Whatever it takes, make 'em tell!!! In the recent murder trial of Randy Taylor MURDERER of Alexis Murphy, he maintained he was innocent, oh, but, he'll tell where her body is for a reduced sentence. Her parents said NO! We don't bargain with murderers! Sadly, unless he tells, or some hunter or hiker finds her, they may never know. :tantrum:

Sure, lets torture an untried suspect and make him talk, because the public is curious and needs to know!

 

[birdlady2]

In that case, there was a major renovation, a garage addition and the bedroom/bonus room above sometime within the last 3 decades; in which case the roof line would have been changed to accommodate the addition. Homes in 1955 did not have double front attached garages. They didn't have vinyl siding. The garage in back may have been the original one, but still, in 1955, families were lucky to have one car, not two.
If there was a milk chute, there is a 50% chance that it was on the garage side, but was covered over when that addition was built. So there may be a milk box on the opposite side, but most contractors would not preserve it when re-doing a home to look modern.

I wonder if this renovation was done to accommodate additional family members and later then rented out as a mortgage helper? If so, there could be other keys that were made and never returned. People who live in the area would know if they had renters or family living there with AL and KL over the past 17 years.

 

[winnnancy]

I thought very early on that perhaps KL or AL had time to tell NO to stay quiet or hide somewhere. I was hoping this were true but now I am not so sure.
I do think it is possible that DG took NO and that is why LE were telling people to check wells, storage units etc.
As someone said earlier, perhaps they just assumed now that without water for over two weeks NO would have now died. Sad to think he may have been somewhere alone and died from starvation and thirst.

NO continues to break my heart. I fail to understand why he wasn't locked in a closet before seeing anything and left to be found.

 

[naz]

I can understand your sentiment but he still should be presumed innocent by law , on the over hand, I think that if NO"dad could somehow get his hands on DG, I could not blame him for forcing DG to talk if he held a very strong conviction that DG was the perpetrator.
My view on DG is that he knows the system, and he will denied, their a small chance of him getting off if they cannot find the bodies, and if a good lawyer can challenge the evidences. I do see a conviction , mostly because of the speedy arrest and the family connection.
In answer to Kristine. Forgot to post the quote.

 

[appleeye]

Respectfully, we have no details about anything. You can't torture someone to make them talk about something they may not have done.

I have not yet seen evidence that he did do it and won't until it is released.

 

[LoriMcA]

JMOO


In regards to the report that 'at least one person may have left in medical distress'


https://ca.news.yahoo.com/nathan-obrien-amber-alert-police-142846185.html


At least one may have...but they weren't sure if more than one?


Maybe until forensics were back they could not definitively say more than one...?


& quite possibly when they did in fact get the lab results back...they found evidence *blood/tissue?* from all 3 rather than just one...to prove no one could be alive....?


IMO that's one of the only things I can think of that would bring about this solid conclusion from LE...

'But as one of the few people who's actually viewed the forensic evidence tying accused triple killer Douglas Garland to the disappearance of three Calgarians, Chief Rick Hanson says he has absolutely no doubt. "They are dead," he says, matter-of-factly.'


http://cnews.canoe.ca/CNEWS/Crime/2014/07/16/21809716.html


Throughout all of this I have not wanted to think of them being separated....especially NO from his grandparents....I can't get my head around that....I would rather think of his gramma with her arms around him...at least that much in all this horror...


As for a key to the house...I think a key may have been involved too..that would fit in with pre-planning rather than relying on an unlocked door or a botched break in....question is...where would the suspect get a key...stolen or given? Just tossing some thoughts around...


JMOO

 

[AltaBorn]

Does anyone think a taser could have been used to subdue the victims?

 

[otto]

Interesting that the City of Calgary Market Value Assessment put the value of the property at $594, 000. In my experience they are usually a little low but not low enough to suggest that $705,000 was indicative of a fire sale like price as has been implied.

https://assessmentsearch.calgary.ca/Search.aspx

 

[winnnancy]

I can understand your sentiment but he still should be presumed innocent by law , on the over hand, I think that if NO"dad could somehow get his hands on DG, I could not blame him for forcing DG to talk if he held a very strong conviction that DG was the perpetrator.
My view on DG is that he knows the system, and he will denied, their a small chance of him getting off if they cannot find the bodies, and if a good lawyer can challenge the evidences. I do see a conviction , mostly because of the speedy arrest and the family connection.
In answer to Kristine. Forgot to post the quote.

I agree that DG is innocent until proven guilty. I also believe that if he is found guilty, he should lose more than simply the right to freedom. While it's not my intent to introduce the death penalty as appropriate subject matter in this forum, I do think that LE should be able to impact his quality of life in prison and I don't think the administration of truth serum and interrogation is a violation of his rights. If he is guilty, he chose a path leading to all that awaits him. The victims had no choice.
Not persuiing finding them aggressively perpetuates the crime holding them in an ambiguous state of being rather than a dignified one where they can be recognized and honoured as victims and the family can begin to heal

 

[otto]

Sorry if this is a dumb question but why would DG remove the bodies from the house in the first place? I'm trying to 'think like a murderer' but not coming up with much ...

The police chief commented on that during one of the press releases. He said that people have been watching CSI and learning about forensics, so they take the body with them to make it more difficult to obtain evidence and to prosecute the crime.

 

[PrincessButtercup]

https://assessmentsearch.calgary.ca/Search.aspx

You've searched 123, the timeline shows #124? My value is for 124

 

[Sillybilly]

You've searched 123, the timeline shows #124? My value is for 124

Thanks PrincessB ... that's a typo in the timeline that nobody noticed until now. I will correct it in any upcoming revision !!

123 38a is correct (not 124 as shown incorrectly in the timeline). My apologies.

 

[otto]

In that case, there was a major renovation, a garage addition and the bedroom/bonus room above sometime within the last 3 decades; in which case the roof line would have been changed to accommodate the addition. Homes in 1955 did not have double front attached garages. They didn't have vinyl siding. The garage in back may have been the original one, but still, in 1955, families were lucky to have one car, not two.
If there was a milk chute, there is a 50% chance that it was on the garage side, but was covered over when that addition was built. So there may be a milk box on the opposite side, but most contractors would not preserve it when re-doing a home to look modern.

The attached garage in the split level home is a single garage, and appears to part of the original structure. I assumed as well that there was an addition on the back of the house. I've illustrated the part of the house that I think could be an addition in this 3D model of the house (constructed based on front elevation photos and aerial footprints).

 

[otto]

You've searched 123, the timeline shows #124? My value is for 124

There must be an error in the timeline

"Brookwell said close to 100 officers with both city police and RCMP remain involved with the investigation, primarily focused at the Airdrie property and at the 123 38A St. S.W. Liknes family home."

http://www.calgarysun.com/2014/07/08/calgary-police-update-search-for-missing-family

 

[otto]

Regarding the interrogation of an accused (minus the suggested torture), I think that the accused is spending a fair bit of time on the receiving end of homicide detective questions:

No right to counsel during interrogation: top court
Oct. 08 2010

"In a ruling full of friction between a bare majority of judges wanting to avoid hampering officers in their work and a minority fighting for the rights of the accused, the court said on Friday that while suspects have a right to consult a lawyer and to be informed of that right, they don't have a right to legal counsel while they are being interrogated."

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news...uring-interrogation-top-court/article1214615/

 

[Deleted member 117120]

Regarding the interrogation of an accused (minus the suggested torture), I think that the accused is spending a fair bit of time on the receiving end of homicide detective questions:

No right to counsel during interrogation: top court
Oct. 08 2010

"In a ruling full of friction between a bare majority of judges wanting to avoid hampering officers in their work and a minority fighting for the rights of the accused, the court said on Friday that while suspects have a right to consult a lawyer and to be informed of that right, they don't have a right to legal counsel while they are being interrogated."

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news...uring-interrogation-top-court/article1214615/

Even though suspect is arrested and has counsel can LE still interrogate him? I thought once he was arrested that LE cant question him any longer due to being represented by counsel which was why I thought detectives took that 24 hour period before bringing the charges to the Crown so they could question him without hindrance of him being counseled. Sorry for running sentence.

 

[Deleted member 117120]

There must be an error in the timeline

"Brookwell said close to 100 officers with both city police and RCMP remain involved with the investigation, primarily focused at the Airdrie property and at the 123 38A St. S.W. Liknes family home."

http://www.calgarysun.com/2014/07/08/calgary-police-update-search-for-missing-family

It is 123 38A St. S. W.

 

[otto]

Even though suspect is arrested and has counsel can LE still interrogate him? I thought once he was arrested that LE cant question him any longer due to being represented by counsel which was why I thought detectives took that 24 hour period before bringing the charges to the Crown so they could question him without hindrance of him being counseled. Sorry for running sentence.

A person that is arrested is informed of the right to counsel and can speak with a defence lawyer. Then, that person can be interrogated for 5-6 consecutive hours without the presence of a lawyer. The person that is arrested can state that they do not want to answer questions, but detectives can continue to ask questions and talk with the arrested person. The laws are different in the US.

I think that the accused is probably doing what Joran van der Sloot did in the exact same situation ... he'll sit silent for hours and hours, but that doesn't mean that the questioning will stop.

 

[Leeman68]

The attached garage in the split level home is a single garage, and appears to part of the original structure. I assumed as well that there was an addition on the back of the house. I've illustrated the part of the house that I think could be an addition in this 3D model of the house (constructed based on front elevation photos and aerial footprints).

I would think that the whole left side of the house with the garage and upper balcony is the addition. They did not build houses like this in 1955.