Deceased/Not Found Canada - Alvin, 66, & Kathy Liknes, 53, Nathan O'Brien, 5, Calgary, 30 Jun 2014 - #11

[Krystine]

Well you are quite right Buttercup and here's something to bear that out: Cambrian Heights Real Estate - Justin Havre & Associates
www.justinhavre.com/cambrian-heigths-real-estate.php
Homes in Cambrian Heights are well connected to Calgary's main roadways, ... This Home Is A Four Level Split With 4000 Sq. Feet Of Living Space On A Quiet ... Built amid the rolling hills of the NW in the late 1950s, the quiet streets and large ...

The home in Cambrian Heights has an under drive garage, and the lower levels have been excavated into the ground to allow for three lower levels, likely built into a hill or a gorge in back? That is why the roof line is not elevated in the back or to the side.
This is not in any way similar to the very basic Likenes' home.
If the L's home has been modified into a split, it is only a 3 level, because of the higher addition above the garage, (stairs up) and the original basement (stairs down). MOO

 

[OutOfTheDarkness]

It was not that he drove by that i was meaning. He drove by 2 hours after JO arrived and still did not know his brother was missing and possibly hurt.

If your child is missing, it's not unreasonable to think that calling the brother of your mother's husband isn't the first thing that comes to mind... Especially if you don't even have his number.

 

[bakerlady]

I really don't think the layout of the home is important in regards to this case. Ranch, split level, 5 stories, garage, no garage, addition no addition....I don't get it. Someone please enlighten me.


A link mentioned earlier said there was over 150 breakins in Calgary in the past 6 months and almost all of them were because people left their homes unlocked.

When I wake up in the morning I let the dog and cats outside and from then on my doors are unlocked until I get ready for bed. So if it was say 11PM and AL and KL were still up and about maybe they didn't get around to locking the door yet.

My guess is that DG was smart enough that if the door was locked he would have found another way to get inside. IMO it was not locked tho.

And lets say it was locked and he rang the doorbell and whoever came to the door was met with a gun and told 'don't scream or I'll shoot'.


In that case would you scream?

 

[otto]

The home in Cambrian Heights has an under drive garage, and the lower levels have been excavated into the ground to allow for three lower levels, likely built into a hill or a gorge in back? That is why the roof line is not elevated in the back or to the side.
This is not in any way similar to the very basic Likenes' home.
If the L's home has been modified into a split, it is only a 3 level, because of the higher addition above the garage, (stairs up) and the original basement (stairs down). MOO

Looking at the front elevation, it is possible to see that it is a four level split. The top level is above the garage (bedrooms). The next level corresponds to the front door (living, dining, kitchen, patio door to deck). The third level is beneath the bedrooms (single garage, family room or office or bedroom behind garage). The fourth level is beneath the main front entrance level: see ground level window underneath the living room(furnace room, hot water, electrical, family room or bedroom).

If this house was only half a house when it was originally built (minus the attached garage and top bedroom level), why wasn't the house built in the centre of the lot? If it was originally built as half a house on half of the property, where were the bedrooms?

http://calgary.ctvnews.ca/family-of...nounce-reward-for-their-safe-return-1.1894397

 

[otto]

I really don't think the layout of the home is important in regards to this case. Ranch, split level, 5 stories, garage, no garage, addition no addition....I don't get it. Someone please enlighten me.

A link mentioned earlier said there was over 150 breakins in Calgary in the past 6 months and almost all of them were because people left their homes unlocked.

When I wake up in the morning I let the dog and cats outside and from then on my doors are unlocked until I get ready for bed. So if it was say 11PM and AL and KL were still up and about maybe they didn't get around to locking the door yet.

My guess is that DG was smart enough that if the door was locked he would have found another way to get inside. IMO it was not locked tho.

And lets say it was locked and he rang the doorbell and whoever came to the door was met with a gun and told 'don't scream or I'll shoot'.

In that case would you scream?

The house is one of the crime scenes, which makes it important. With an approximation of the layout, we can better understand the location of the entrances, where the victims could have been at the time of the attack, why the side entrance was used to remove the victims, and why the victims were unable to escape. Given that the house contents had been liquidated, it's possible that they were camping out in a living room on the lower level - behind the garage. That would be on the same level as the side door.

Regarding the sale of all house contents:

"Neighbour Lindsay Bumanis stopped by the sale several times on Friday afternoon. Just about everything in the residence was for sale, she said. "I chatted with the owners ... the wife was really chatty and friendly, and she said she was selling everything and they were moving to Mexico."

http://www2.canada.com/saskatoonstarphoenix/news/story.html?id=aa646819-1f2b-49a6-903d-af2255cb57fb

 

[otto]

If your child is missing, it's not unreasonable to think that calling the brother of your mother's husband isn't the first thing that comes to mind... Especially if you don't even have his number.

Nathan's mom called police when she arrived at the house. This was not done because her grandparents and son were not home - perhaps making a quick trip to the store, or at the playground. Something else told her that she needed to call police.

 

[otto]

Like someone said,, how come nobody screamed? (rhetorical)
Because their assailant was always welcomed in the home?

It's hard to do now this far into the case, but - for a moment - remove DG from the picture, remove his farm, truck, everything and think it thru without him and patent disputes. How would you reassess the case?

If mods think I've overstepped please delete my post.

There are two crime scenes: the Parkhill home, the Airdrie acreage. We can't ignore that. We also can't ignore the fact that the truck, belonging to the accused, is in both locations on the night of the murders, or the fact that he has been arrested and the victims declared dead. What would be the purpose of ignoring that information?

 

[Deleted member 117120]

I can't shake that aspect either you mention at the end of your post - it seems like a silent crime. And how could it have been not heard at all? How could it have stayed controlled? If there was a violent incident involving one person wouldn't the other have screamed? If there was a violent incident involving two people, how could that have been done at the same time? I don't know how a murderer could possibly plan to harm one victim at a time if that's what was done to keep things 'quiet', it just seems too risky if it backfires. He had to plan for no one screaming or escaping and had to plan how to physically control two people at the same time.

That's why I believe a toxin soaked rag was used to immobilize the victims followed by whatever the suspect did to cause dna in the home.

 

[Deleted member 117120]

Nathan's mom called police when she arrived at the house. This was not done because her grandparents and son were not home - perhaps making a quick trip to the store, or at the playground. Something else told her that she needed to call police.

Agreed, it was the dna and state of the home that caused the reaction by JO.

 

[otto]

That's why I believe a toxin soaked rag was used to immobilize the victims followed by whatever the suspect did to cause dna in the home.

I suspect that if the accused was up close and personal with Alvin Liknes, where the only weapon was a rag, Alvin would have had the upper hand.

 

[LoisLane]

Looking at the front elevation, it is possible to see that it is a four level split. The top level is above the garage (bedrooms). The next level corresponds to the front door (living, dining, kitchen, patio door to deck). The third level is beneath the bedrooms (single garage, family room or office or bedroom behind garage). The fourth level is beneath the main front entrance level: see ground level window underneath the living room(furnace room, hot water, electrical, family room or bedroom).

If this house was only half a house when it was originally built (minus the attached garage and top bedroom level), why wasn't the house built in the centre of the lot? If it was originally built as half a house on half of the property, where were the bedrooms?

Maybe it had a detached garage in the beginning.

 

[goodasgold]

If your child is missing, it's not unreasonable to think that calling the brother of your mother's husband isn't the first thing that comes to mind... Especially if you don't even have his number.

No it is not unreasonable. However, if it were my child, mom and stepdad all missing with their vehicles there and blood in the house, i would be calling most family after the police to see if they heard from them or seen them, just in case they were called or took them to the hospital etc. I would be in panic and shock, calling my moms siblings, my stepfathers siblings to see if anyone knew anything. And if not doing it myself would be getting family to spread it around to others asap. JMO

 

[bakerlady]

The house is one of the crime scenes, which makes it important. With an approximation of the layout, we can better understand the location of the entrances, where the victims could have been at the time of the attack, why the side entrance was used to remove the victims, and why the victims were unable to escape. Given that the house contents had been liquidated, it's possible that they were camping out in a living room on the lower level - behind the garage. That would be on the same level as the side door.

Regarding the sale of all house contents:

"Neighbour Lindsay Bumanis stopped by the sale several times on Friday afternoon. Just about everything in the residence was for sale, she said. "I chatted with the owners ... the wife was really chatty and friendly, and she said she was selling everything and they were moving to Mexico."

http://www2.canada.com/saskatoonstarphoenix/news/story.html?id=aa646819-1f2b-49a6-903d-af2255cb57fb

Just because everything was for sale does not mean it was actually sold.

IMO it's obvious that the side door was used to avoid detection.

I still don't see why it matters where they were in the home. Wherever it was DG found them and killed them.

 

[bakerlady]

No it is not unreasonable. However, if it were my child, mom and stepdad all missing with their vehicles there and blood in the house, i would be calling most family after the police to see if they heard from them or seen them, just in case they were called or took them to the hospital etc. I would be in panic and shock, calling my moms siblings, my stepfathers siblings to see if anyone knew anything. And if not doing it myself would be getting family to spread it around to others asap. JMO

My sentiments exactly. I would call the police and then everyone else in the family and I would expect them to all call each other as well. 2 hours is a long time for CL to not know there was a bloody scene in his brother's home.

This is a large, close knit family and not to mention CL lives in Calgary AFAIK. He would be one of the first people I would call.

 

[bakerlady]

Nathan's mom called police when she arrived at the house. This was not done because her grandparents and son were not home - perhaps making a quick trip to the store, or at the playground. Something else told her that she needed to call police.

She most certainly saw blood.

On Friday, police said in a news conference there is no indication of forced entry to the home but blood was found inside the home and police say a violent incident took place there.

Forensics teams have not yet determined whether the blood belonged to one person or several, but police said whoever it belonged to would have been in medical distress.

http://www.cbc.ca/m/touch/news/story/1.2697512

 

[PrincessButtercup]

Maybe it had a detached garage in the beginning.

I'm going to be surprised if it was a reno. They aren't extremely common but there are several in that area and comparable NW areas with the garage in the front. It fits that area which has always been a bit more upper middle class.

 

[P2L]

No it is not unreasonable. However, if it were my child, mom and stepdad all missing with their vehicles there and blood in the house, i would be calling most family after the police to see if they heard from them or seen them, just in case they were called or took them to the hospital etc. I would be in panic and shock, calling my moms siblings, my stepfathers siblings to see if anyone knew anything. And if not doing it myself would be getting family to spread it around to others asap. JMO

IMO, after she most likely walked into a crime scene and called the police, she would have been with the police for quite a few hours. I think they were telling her who she could and could not contact at that point - it seems clear that this was a tightly controlled investigation. There was always a chance that this was random, but LE knew that more than likely it was someone the victims knew. I don't think she had a chance to sit down with a phone list and start calling people - she was taking direction from the police. IMO, they probably even treated her as a suspect initially.

 

[otto]

Maybe it had a detached garage in the beginning.

It's clearly an older house that was build as a split level. I don't really understand why there would be any question about the house, or any suggestion that the half of the house with the attached garage and bedrooms was not included in the original construction of the house.

 

[PrincessButtercup]

Just because everything was for sale does not mean it was actually sold.

IMO it's obvious that the side door was used to avoid detection.

I still don't see why it matters where they were in the home. Wherever it was DG found them and killed them.

I think you're very right and I'm not certain that everything was for sale. If they were moving to a small house or condo they might only need their bedroom suite but likely had several in the house. Maybe just a small dining area in the new house. They lived in the house for a long time .... gosh, if I downsized I would need to sell off a lot of duplicates but would keep what was essential to move on.

 

[Krystine]

The house is one of the crime scenes, which makes it important. With an approximation of the layout, we can better understand the location of the entrances, where the victims could have been at the time of the attack, why the side entrance was used to remove the victims, and why the victims were unable to escape. Given that the house contents had been liquidated, it's possible that they were camping out in a living room on the lower level - behind the garage. That would be on the same level as the side door.
http://www2.canada.com/saskatoonstarphoenix/news/story.html?id=aa646819-1f2b-49a6-903d-af2255cb57fb

Otto, I see your point. It's quite possible that it was first situated on a double lot, and then the house on one side or the other was subdivided from the original large lot.
If I recall in your drawing, they don't have a huge side yard, on either side.
I think it could have been modified to a split level, with the addition on the garage side, and a few stairs added to connect to the area behind the garage, with a hallway to the garage. I think the side door would be through the garage.
I have seen many older 3 level splits with the bedrooms in the third level down. Early split levels had just a crawlspace and not a full fourth level.
The bedrooms of a 4 level split are always on the highest level to the side or back of the house. Which made me really question the whole split level theory. The kitchen is at the back to the right, because of the large square centre light you can see through the front door.
If it were a 4 level split the roof would be a higher pitch, (slanted) with the highest part, (bedrooms) 6? steps up, the main level would include a bath,kitchen and living area, and the lower level would have one bedroom (sometimes 2) with another bath, all with windows.
The home was not originally a split, but I concede that it has been changed into some form of split. Some agents might call it a 2 storey/split, as sometimes with additions they defy accurate descriptions.
MOO




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