Deceased/Not Found Canada - Alvin, 66, & Kathy Liknes, 53, Nathan O'Brien, 5, Calgary, 30 Jun 2014 - #13

[Tinkerbel1]

I have said this before but just maybe he embalmed the bodies (in the greenhouse) to hold off the decomposing smell for awhile and then buried them somewhere. Wonder if he knew embalming ideas with his chemicals. JMO. Such a morbid thought i do not want to even think about.

That's a heck of a thought! Maybe they're under the greenhouse? Keep thinking of that Pickton guy, geez louise! Ugh! I don't know how that man slept at night. So, what's in the greenhouse? Someone is continuously mentioning dissolving the bodies in lye, but there would be bone fragments...but then someone said the bone fragments could be crushed up into white powder...mortar and pestle? Grinder? Grater? Maybe he fertilized the plants in the greenhouse with bonemeal? Is that too far-fetched?

http://www.gardeningknowhow.com/garden-how-to/soil-fertilizers/bone-meal-fertilizer.htm

What does one do all night in a greenhouse? I suppose he could be growing pot and needed the lights on...

 

[Tinkerbel1]

Isn't that what potentially happened? If that report was accurate, then a neighbor noticed burning all day which was classified as unusual.

Hello OutOfTheDarkness What exactly was meant by 'unusual'? The fact that he was burning for a full day or 2 days or whatever was reported (more than required for household trash)...did the neighbor mention anything in particular about the burning? The smell? The smoke? Not sure what "unusual" means to that neighbor. I've not heard any details about the burning other than the length of time DG was burning for.

 

[Blue Amethyst]

Sorry about that.

http://www.princegeorgecitizen.com/...l-past-records-1.1206953#sthash.bhAw089F.dpuf

The thing that popped out at me was the charge of arson. What was he trying to cover up to get that charge. Were there any unusual rural fires of old granaries or anything before he got caught? He has a list a mile long of previous charges. He could have left Calgary and gone east then up the Highway 9 and then over on the 567 which would bring him home. I wonder if they looked in that area.

.
http://www.huffingtonpost.ca/2014/07/15/douglas-garland-murder-charge_n_5588760.html

http://www.thestar.com/news/canada/..._of_missing_calgary_boy_appears_in_court.html


http://beaconnews.ca/calgary/2014/0...-man-with-mental-issues-criminal-pastrecords/

An added note, FWIW, when I read "property offences", it somehow sounds innocuous, especially as the Parole Board of Canada seemed pretty blasé about DG's record. To I checked. Not really that innocuous. Property offences include: robbery; break and enter; unlawfully in a dwelling; possession of break-in instruments; forceable entry; motor vehicle theft; theft; fraudulent concealment; theft and forgery of a credit card; possession of stolen property; obtaining property by false pretenses; forgery; counterfeiting; breach of trust; fraud; fraudulently obtaining food; taxi fraud; mischief; arson; unauthorized use of computer; identity theft.

I'd sure like to see the specific charges. If I find anything, I'll post.

For some reason I am having trouble posting. The charge I noticed was arson. I wonder if there were any rural fires if he left Calgary and went east then up the 9 and then over on the 567 to his home. Perhaps the bodies are out that way.

 

[Tinkerbel1]

Highly, highly, highly, unlikely.

Preserving bodies you want to dispose of is counterproductive to say the least.

Well, maybe not so much! What if DG needed a day or day and a half to dissolve/burn/whatever he did to the bodies. It was pretty warm out when this happened, it sure wouldn't take long for those bodies to start decomposing and/or smelling in a big hurry. http://www.anomalies-unlimited.com/Death/Stages.html
The temperature in Airdrie on July 1 was 24 C, and 26 C on July 2nd, 2014. http://www.accuweather.com/en/ca/airdrie/t4b/month/52095?monyr=7/01/2014

 

[news.talk]

For some reason I am having trouble posting. The charge I noticed was arson. I wonder if there were any rural fires if he left Calgary and went east then up the 9 and then over on the 567 to his home. Perhaps the bodies are out that way.

Nothing noteworthy:

http://www.albertapolicereport.ca/category/fire/

 

[Krystine]

Remember the search by LE of the abandoned Ford dealership and the nearby Agriculture building with the cargo bay that was labelled POST MORTEM ONLY? The piles of rolled up tarps on the other side of the fence?
This was just after DG was re-arrested after leaving the Airdrie hotel.
We discussed that that cargo bay was likely where diseased animals were taken for testing and disposal by Dept. of Agriculture. I really thought LE were onto something with that particular part of the investigation.
Does anyone else have any thoughts about that?
I'm interested in what news.talk and Cherchri have to say, given their first hand experience with LE and its operations.
Would anything uncovered there have been shared with the public? These areas were cordoned off and searched for 2 days IIRC.

 

[news.talk]

Remember the search by LE in of the abandoned Ford dealership and the nearby Agriculture building with the cargo bay that was labelled POST MORTEM ONLY? The piles of rolled up tarps on the other side of the fence?
This was just after DG's was re-arrested after leaving the Airdrie hotel.
We discussed that that cargo bay was likely where diseased animals were taken for testing and disposal by Dept. of Agriculture. I really thought LE were onto something with that particular part of the investigation.
Does anyone else have any thoughts about that?
I'm interested in what news.talk and Cherchri have to say, with their first hand experience with LE and their operations.
Would anything uncovered there have been shared with the public? These areas were cordoned off and searched for 2 days IIRC.

I think they would have been remiss if they didn't search such an obvious site. Problem is, since the suspect was in custody, LE could not release any findings.

 

[Krystine]

I think they would have been remiss if they didn't search such an obvious site. Problem is, since the suspect was in custody, LE could not release any findings.

Do news people in Canada ever attempt to gain access to the specifics of search warrants?
It would really help 'us' if we had the arrest document and specifics of what police were searching for.
I understand it_is_ possible in the U.S., and have even seen these documents scanned and posted on 'sleuthing sites'.
(Not suggesting you do that, just wondering if it's possible, or are these docs sealed if the suspect is in custody)?
What is public domaine, if anything, just for the purposes of having more to discuss here?

 

[news.talk]

Do news people in Canada ever attempt to gain access to the specifics of search warrants?
It would really help 'us' if we had the arrest document and specifics of what police were searching for.
I understand it_is_ possible in the U.S., and have even seen these documents scanned and posted on 'sleuthing sites'.
(Not suggesting you do that, just wondering if it's possible, or are these docs sealed if the suspect is in custody)?
What is public domaine, if anything, just for the purposes of having more to discuss here?

Yes and no. Most warrants of this nature are *sealed* by the court. They seal them based on the public's right to know vs. the integrity of the investigation and rights of the suspect.

"A search warrant file consists of three documents. The warrant itself identifies the place to be searched and what police hope to find. Another document, the return, is drafted after the search and offers a brief description of each item of evidence seized.

The key document is the information to obtain a warrant. It puts forward the evidence needed to justify the search and reveals the names of suspects, the offences being investigated, and the evidence already in the hands of police."

http://j-source.ca/article/lifting-lid-search-warrants

In this case, sealing the warrant protects other laws in place to protect the evidence. If the media/public has access to say this warrant, they would also be in possession of the evidence that leads to the warrant - Something they cannot disclose since the suspect is in custody.

 

[Krystine]

Many thank. I suspected that would be the answer, or these docs would have already been offered up here.
Just curious, ... I do understand the Crown's case shouldn't be compromised.

 

[Cherchri]

Many thank. I suspected that would be the answer, or these docs would have already been offered up here.
Just curious, ... I do understand the Crown's case shouldn't be compromised.

Sorry I was away from my iPad for a few hours. I can offer nothing that doesn't correlate 100% with what News.Talk offered in response. Media are always hampered by legislation. They may have an inside track and even eyewitness views but cannot always publish or broadcast what they know or see.

 

[stan laurel]

So I'm DG and I've been planning/premeditating this crime since hearing that the L's are retiring;

I'm going to dig a hole enough for two adult bodies away from home but not so far that it will be problematic. I'll line the hole so that I can either burn or dissolve bodies. I will then cover/refill the hole after dumping them.

Problem; during my plan there appears to be another body to deal with, do I have enough lye, as I only brought enough for two. [Heads company with the aerial imaging can detect minute relief/depression in a landscape].

I'm Stan again,, have you ever dug in the Prairies, deep digging that is? It aint easy as packed clay isn't that far down. Look at the Google maps with DG's truck. There is another vehicle, not the car but the heavier equipment just below the truck. I wonder what detachable parts he had for it or created for it. If it is wheeled, he could realistically travel a max of 20 miles from the property to an area to dig with it, so where would that be and where would that be that it wouldn't raise concern or suspicion?

In other maps, I cannot find the heavy equipment/machinery.

 

[Cherchri]

So I'm DG and I've been planning/premeditating this crime since hearing that the L's are retiring;

I'm going to dig a hole enough for two adult bodies away from home but not so far that it will be problematic. I'll line the hole so that I can either burn or dissolve bodies. I will then cover/refill the hole after dumping them.

Problem; during my plan there appears to be another body to deal with, do I have enough lye, as I only brought enough for two. [Heads company with the aerial imaging can detect minute relief/depression in a landscape].

I'm Stan again,, have you ever dug in the Prairies, deep digging that is? It aint easy as packed clay isn't that far down. Look at the Google maps with DG's truck. There is another vehicle, not the car but the heavier equipment just below the truck. I wonder what detachable parts he had for it or created for it. If it is wheeled, he could realistically travel a max of 20 miles from the property to an area to dig with it, so where would that be and where would that be that it wouldn't raise concern or suspicion?

In other maps, I cannot find the heavy equipment/machinery.

Why a hole in the earth? That would be the worst plan! Barrels. Disposable barrels - first choice. If you have read any if the links I have shared in this regard, it should be very easily understood. There would be NOTHING left to find.

 

[stan laurel]

https://www.google.ca/maps/@51.3222788,-113.9717952,24m/data=!3m1!1e3

ok, call me crazy,, who's quick on finding pics of the greenhouse on this ginormous thread?

Is the green house in the pic above different than in other pics from the property search? It either looks like it could be pulled like a sled or lifted about the property.

 

[otto]

This is a 'farm' on a rural property. The surrounding area may have various types of farming, be it pig, chicken, cattle..........there are many associated putrid smells from these type of operations. Growing up in a rural area there are always varying pungent smells coming from farms. Some of these farms have liquid manure holding areas, also livestock that hasnt made it that may be disposed of on the farm.

Acreage owners are not allowed to burn animals and other livestock on their properties. This is rural, but it's not the wild west.

 

[stan laurel]

Why a hole in the earth? That would be the worst plan! Barrels. Disposable barrels - first choice. If you have read any if the links I have shared in this regard, it should be very easily understood. There would be NOTHING left to find.

quick, think quick and think about not returning to your property,, you have pre dug or barreled elsewhere, and you have planned for two not three. Besides, I'm not presenting this as an-only theory if you read the title, I'm asking for thinking like DG in a planning stage.

Besides, with barrels - even disposable ones - there is still an amount of liquid to deal with, a 5 gallon bucket with water is enough of a problem to move even with a lid,, take that same bucket/barrel and have it containing a sludge of caustic material needing disposal. We've argued on moving bodies, maybe we should argue about moving them in a liquefied form.

It's also easy to say, I'll put bodies in barrels and add lye, or do I add lye THEN the bodies, but how much displacement am I looking at or splash back.

 

[news.talk]

quick, think quick and think about not returning to your property,, you have pre dug or barreled elsewhere, and you have planned for two not three. Besides, I'm not presenting this as an-only theory if you read the title, I'm asking for thinking like DG in a planning stage.

If he had any smarts, he wouldn't plan anything that could result in the bodies being discovered. Especially on his own property.

 

[Krystine]

So I'm DG and I've been planning/premeditating this crime since hearing that the L's are retiring;

I'm going to dig a hole enough for two adult bodies away from home but not so far that it will be problematic. I'll line the hole so that I can either burn or dissolve bodies. I will then cover/refill the hole after dumping them.

Problem; during my plan there appears to be another body to deal with, do I have enough lye, as I only brought enough for two. [Heads company with the aerial imaging can detect minute relief/depression in a landscape].

I'm Stan again,, have you ever dug in the Prairies, deep digging that is? It aint easy as packed clay isn't that far down. Look at the Google maps with DG's truck. There is another vehicle, not the car but the heavier equipment just below the truck. I wonder what detachable parts he had for it or created for it. If it is wheeled, he could realistically travel a max of 20 miles from the property to an area to dig with it, so where would that be and where would that be that it wouldn't raise concern or suspicion?

In other maps, I cannot find the heavy equipment/machinery.

I think I could get behind this theory. However, it would be a challenge to find a property in this part of Alberta (it's rural, but highly populated) where the land owner would not notice someone digging with a backhoe on their property. It would have to be co-ordinated so that the owner/renter of the land wouldn't notice or be suspicious. Not easy to do in the summer months.
I don't think a backhoe type of machinery could navigate any remote, hilly or swampy areas...although the same bucket that digs can transport said bodies to the location.
It would also have to be done in broad daylight or early a.m. hours, again, not to arouse suspicions. Farmers are very, very vigilant folk.

 

[Cherchri]

If he had any smarts, he wouldn't plan anything that could result in the bodies being discovered. Especially on his own property.

Ditto!

 

[Tinkerbel1]

So I'm DG and I've been planning/premeditating this crime since hearing that the L's are retiring;

I'm going to dig a hole enough for two adult bodies away from home but not so far that it will be problematic. I'll line the hole so that I can either burn or dissolve bodies. I will then cover/refill the hole after dumping them.

Problem; during my plan there appears to be another body to deal with, do I have enough lye, as I only brought enough for two. [Heads company with the aerial imaging can detect minute relief/depression in a landscape].

I'm Stan again,, have you ever dug in the Prairies, deep digging that is? It aint easy as packed clay isn't that far down. Look at the Google maps with DG's truck. There is another vehicle, not the car but the heavier equipment just below the truck. I wonder what detachable parts he had for it or created for it. If it is wheeled, he could realistically travel a max of 20 miles from the property to an area to dig with it, so where would that be and where would that be that it wouldn't raise concern or suspicion?

In other maps, I cannot find the heavy equipment/machinery.

That's a fair distance 20 miles...would it be driven down the road or across land? I'm assuming down the road. If Heads company with the aerial imaging can detect minute relief/depression in a landscape, then perhaps LE could ask them to broaden their search to a 20 M radius. Even if he drove down the road, he would have to drive on the land and dig, so they would still be looking for depression in the landscape.
If I was going to be digging in a place that wouldn't raise concern or suspicion, I would probably go to a place that was already dug up...such as a construction site...perhaps the new raceway if they've started. A great place would be where there may be some new roadwork being put in, say for a new subdivision, commercial building, and a location already prepared that's just waiting for concrete or asphalt soon, say the next day...you could dig the previously disturbed spot, dump the bodies, cover the spot up again as it was before you dug and wait for the concrete truck.