Deceased/Not Found Canada - Alvin, 66, & Kathy Liknes, 53, Nathan O'Brien, 5, Calgary, 30 Jun 2014 - #14

[OutOfTheDarkness]

This is JMO.

I think it could be possible that NO has been placed in some sort of protective environment...maybe it's not the W.P.P. ... but really, why not? At this point no one knows for absolute certain that DG was the only suspect. I understand that this is what LE believes and may very well have just cause to believe this, but why take any chances with a little 5 year old boy? As far as the expense of such an undertaking...how much would be too much? Do you have a solid price quote for the cost of such a plan that you can share with the rest of us?
And...who is going to decide what dollar value is too much to save a child? Are there some guidelines for this that LE follow? Super curious as to how LE or the Government of Alberta would determine what was a reasonable use of taxpayer dollars to potentially save a 5-year old's life and possibly that of his immediate family?

Never thought of it that way... poor crown and whoever is going to be charged with fraud and sued by DG for the false accusations etc. You can't hide someone, and then charge someone else for their murder.

 

[news.talk]

It would happen in certain situations. Maybe NO is with a family member? Just not his immediate family because i think the family would be suspecting something when they knew NO slept over and their parents were murdered but not only NO his whole immediate family is missing. That would be too obvious because the family and neighbors would know all the O Briens did not stay the night.
RO has his side of the family in SK (NO has another grandma), who we have heard nothing about. Also, there is family in Mexico, Norway, etc. Liknes family members are everywhere. He may be with one of them. And in Mexico, probably less apt to be noticed. JMO

Can you (or anyone) provide a case in Canada of LE faking a death, charging a suspect with this faked death, all to protect a witness? An unreliable witness at best.

 

[OutOfTheDarkness]

It would happen in certain situations. Maybe NO is with a family member? Just not his immediate family because i think the family would be suspecting something when they knew NO slept over and their parents were murdered but not only NO his whole immediate family is missing. That would be too obvious because the family and neighbors would know all the O Briens did not stay the night.
RO has his side of the family in SK (NO has another grandma), who we have heard nothing about. Also, there is family in Mexico, Norway, etc. Liknes family members are everywhere. He may be with one of them. And in Mexico, probably less apt to be noticed. JMO

How would that work with disclosure if you have a statement from one of the murder victims? How do you notify the defence that you're calling one of the "deceased" as a witness?

 

[news.talk]

Never thought of it that way... poor crown and whoever is going to be charged with fraud and sued by DG for the false accusations etc. You can't hide someone, and then charge someone else for their murder.

Exactly. *If* a fraud of such magnitude was perpetrated on the Justice system BY officers of the court, circumventing the most basic laws and the rights of the accused, it would open the door for the entire case to be thrown out and the suspect would walk away a very wealthy man.

 

[Blue Amethyst]

http://storage.canoe.ca/v1/dynamic_resize/?src=http://cnews.canoe.ca/CNEWS/Canada/2014/07/07/obriens_650.jpg&size=650x366&quality=85
What is the light blue article on the ground to the right of JO?
When JO goes into the home with LE it is no longer there.
http://www.thestarphoenix.com/news/cms/binary/9999812.jpg?size=620x400s

I think it is perhaps a glove.

 

[Cherchri]

And the third murder charge is a conspiracy that involves the court? A five year old boy is taken away from his parents, or are you saying that they are in on this conspiracy?

In 2012, of the 108 people in Canada considered for the program, only 30 were placed at a cost of 9 million dollars.

http://m.theglobeandmail.com/news/p...ection-program/article6190969/?service=mobile

Mmmmm just beyond the wildest stretch of my imagination.

 

[otto]

Google streetview shows this at the end of their street (about 4 houses down from the Liknes' home):



It's the Elbow River Pathway (iirc) that runs alongside the river.

There was a question on the last thread about how we know that construction sites have cameras ... I referenced the construction site that captured the accused on camera.

The construction site with the camera that captured an image of the accused in his green truck is across the street, directly East of this view.

The street running East West where the truck was seen. The truck is heading towards the intersection where the view is.



The street map and search area. The truck was heading West (to the left in the photo) on 38A avenue.



The camera is on the building on the left, which is an enormous house under construction.



This is the backyard of the crime scene, from the community centre



Going down the hill to the river valley, this is the path to take

 

[otto]

The question I have is about the angle of the sun at the time the photo was taken. Someone posted a solar map earlier. Maybe that could be posted again and we could figure out if he made two trips or one. That is, the back of his truck is empty. Either the photo was taken prior to the murders (and he's driving away from the crime scene), or he committed the murders, left the scene, returned to clean up, and was seen driving away early in the morning with no bodies in the back of the truck.

There is a street light directly above the truck.

The photo is thumb-nailed in the previous post. Was the photo taken closer to 10PM, 11PM, ... or 4AM? 10PM means prior to the murders, 4AM means a second trip after getting rid of the bodies.

 

[news.talk]

The question I have is about the angle of the sun at the time the photo was taken. Someone posted a solar map earlier. Maybe that could be posted again and we could figure out if he made two trips or one. That is, the back of his truck is empty. Either the photo was taken prior to the murders (and he's driving away from the crime scene), or he committed the murders, left the scene, returned to clean up, and was seen driving away early in the morning with no bodies in the back of the truck.

There is a street light directly above the truck.

The photo is thumb-nailed in the previous post. Was the photo taken closer to 10PM, 11PM, ... or 4AM? 10PM means prior to the murders, 4AM means a second trip after getting rid of the bodies.

I'm of the belief, that LE only released the photos necessary for vehicle identification and they have more in their possession from various times, that may show contents in the back of the truck. For obvious reasons, they didn't disclose those to the public.

 

[otto]

I just noticed that Helena was near a river. If the accused is also responsible for this murder, it might be an idea to look at rivers North and a bit East of Airdrie. The rivers come down the mountains and there are some unpopulated areas along those rivers. The same is true of Sharlene Rae Oswald ... near a river.

Perhaps the Liknes couple and their nephew will be found on those rivers ... let me find the map ... the attached maps are of different areas.

 

[news.talk]

I just noticed that Helena was near a river. If the accused is also responsible for this murder, it might be an idea to look at rivers North and a bit East of Airdrie. The rivers come down the mountains and there are some unpopulated areas along those rivers. The same is true of Sharlene Rae Oswald ... near a river.

Perhaps the Liknes couple and their nephew will be found on those rivers ... let me find the map ... the attached maps are of different areas.

While I maintain a theory of water dumping, I struggle with the idea that the water is a river. The Elbow is very shallow and is frequently used during the summer. Even the bow is relatively shallow within the city and is a busy recreational destination.

I tend to lean towards Chestermere or McDonald lakes.

 

[otto]

This is one of the rivers I was looking at when the question first came up in terms of: where did he put the victim's bodies? It's NE of Airdrie, on the other side of Hwy 2.

 

[news.talk]

This is one of the rivers I was looking at when the question first came up in terms of: where did he put the victim's bodies? It's NE of Airdrie, on the other side of Hwy 2.

What is the depth and recreational usage? Keep in mind, we have had almost two full months of summer and water-ways are common activities.

 

[otto]

I'm of the belief, that LE only released the photos necessary for vehicle identification and they have more in their possession from various times, that may show contents in the back of the truck. For obvious reasons, they didn't disclose those to the public.

Still, I'm curious about the time of the photo, as it tells us whether the accused was circling the neighbourhood at 10PM, prior to the murder (empty truck), or he made two trips. He was seen more than once on surveillance camera, probably twice with the same camera, and with at least one of those times, there was nothing in the back of his truck.

Did he circle the block once at 10-10:30, and the photo was taken at 10PM-ish, or was he seen taking bodies away from the crime scene roughly between 11PM and 2AM, and then later, around 4AM (when the photo may have been taken) with nothing in the back of his truck?

 

[otto]

What is the depth and recreational usage? Keep in mind, we have had almost two full months of summer and water-ways are common activities.

Upstream doesn't seem good for water sports, not downstream either. That seems to be a bit of a reservoir with rivers that feed into it, and split downstream.

 

[OutOfTheDarkness]

While I maintain a theory of water dumping, I struggle with the idea that the water is a river. The Elbow is vetime shallow and is frequently used during the summer. Even the bow is relatively shallow within the city and is a busy recreational destination.

I tend to lean towards Chestermere or McDonald lakes.

Chestermere is surrounded by houses, and McDonald doesn't look much like a vast lake to dump something in on street view.

LE asked companies to check their well sites, and residents to check their farms and properties... no mention of please check lakes or riverbeds. LE also said the volunteer searchers in the fields didn't know WHAT they were looking for, not that they were looking in the wrong area.

If LE has evidence of a water dump, then their public pleas don't make sense. The fact LE asked specifically for those areas to be
searched says to me that it's likely they have something, be it crude oil or dirt in the truck wheel wells etc., to make them think that the remains are unrecognizable, somewhere on land.

AL's son, who has the best chance of having inside information, did that tv interview on his motorcycle, checking roadsides...

Pure speculation.

 

[otto]

While I maintain a theory of water dumping, I struggle with the idea that the water is a river. The Elbow is very shallow and is frequently used during the summer. Even the bow is relatively shallow within the city and is a busy recreational destination.

I tend to lean towards Chestermere or McDonald lakes.

McDonald lake is a possibility, it's on the way from the first crime scene to the second crime scene, and there are backroads giving access to remote edges of the lake, but it is a popular fishing spot. The Elbow river is out of the question. After the Glenmore Reservoir, it's all downhill until the Elbow meets the Bow in the middle of Calgary. No body is going to hide a body in the Elbow river. I'm thinking about rivers that come down the mountains and form streams going all over the place ... as we see NE of the Airdrie property.

 

[otto]

Chestermere is surrounded by houses, and McDonald doesn't look much like a vast lake to dump something in on street view.

LE asked companies to check their well sites, and residents to check their farms and properties... no mention of please check lakes or riverbeds. LE also said the volunteer searchers in the fields didn't know WHAT they were looking for, not that they were looking in the wrong area.

If LE has evidence of a water dump, then their public pleas don't make sense. The fact LE asked specifically for those areas to be
searched says to me that it's likely they have something, be it crude oil or dirt in the truck wheel wells etc., to make them think that the remains are unrecognizable, somewhere on land.

AL's son, who has the best chance of having inside information, did that tv interview on his motorcycle, checking roadsides...

Pure speculation.

Police recently gave a statement that they are still looking for the bodies, but there are no photos of their searches since the arrest (other than the road closure). The media is not chasing around documenting everything police do as it's forbidden to publish police investigation activity. We don't know where police are searching. The road closure had nothing to do with well sites, or farm properties.

 

[OutOfTheDarkness]

Police recently gave a statement that they are still looking for the bodies, but there are no photos of their searches since the arrest (other than the road closure). The media is not chasing around documenting everything police do as it's forbidden to publish police investigation activity. We don't know where police are searching. The road closure had nothing to do with well sites, or farm properties.

No, we don't know where they are looking, but if they ask the public to look at well sites, farms, and fields, we can safely assume something in the evidence at that time, lead them to make that specific a request.

Unless, of course, it's all a clever ruse to throw off the real perps in order to protect their star witness, who just happens to be one of the victims secretly being kept in witness protection. I prefer to interpret facts, based on probabilities and likelihoods though...

I suspect if LE started searching lakes and rivers with divers over and over, we'd know about it. Just like we found out about the investigation in Mexico...

 

[otto]

No, we don't know where they are looking, but if they ask the public to look at well sites, farms, and fields, we can safely assume something in the evidence at that time, lead them to make that specific a request.

Unless, of course, it's all a clever ruse to throw off the real perps in order to protect their star witness, who just happens to be one of the victims secretly being kept in witness protection. I prefer to interpret facts, based on probabilities and likelihoods though...

I suspect if LE started searching lakes and rivers with divers over and over, we'd know about it.

Police asked property owners to check their property, and well sites on their property. Police searched the Airdrie acreage, some surrounding areas. There was a road closure in Airdrie. Police have not made any statements about where they are looking. I think that they should look along the rivers.