Deceased/Not Found Canada - Alvin, 66, & Kathy Liknes, 53, Nathan O'Brien, 5, Calgary, 30 Jun 2014 - #18

[otto]

If JO and KL did not know DG existed, and let's say DG's target was AL, why in the world didn't he go after AL when he was alone somewhere, sometime?

Why risk trying to murder two people instead of one? Again, more risky not knowing who was at the house (which turned out to be three persons sadly), but could have easily been 4-5 people also if CH and her husband happened to stay the night at the last minute.

Also, if KL and JO (and that means NO also) didn't know DG existed, they would not recognize him so they could have been spared, especially NO. Nathan would not have recognized or known DG, he would have been a stranger to him that night.

Kathryn must have known about Douglas. Douglas premeditated the murder of Kathryn and Alvin. Jen can't speak for what her mother knew about her step-children's families.

 

[news.talk]

Kathryn must have known about Douglas. Douglas premeditated the murder of Kathryn and Alvin. Jen can't speak for what her mother knew about her step-children's families.

I have a different interpretation on JO' s comment regarding DG...

Perhaps she meant that while KL and herself met him on one or two occasions, therefore knew he existed, she meant that they *knew OF him* but didn't really *know* him. Kind of like saying, "I didn't really know him."

Just a thought.

 

[deugirtni]

No, there was no dinner including AL/KL and DG (that we have heard about). The story in question is the last time ALJr saw DG, which was at a Thanksgiving dinner hosted by the G family, at which time ALJr did not speak much to DG and said he found him 'a loner'. It was reported to be both just last Thanksgiving (Oct 2013), and by another MSM, to be a Thanksgiving 4 years ago. I believe the article stating it was 4 years ago is in error, since all other MSM stated it to be just last October, and ALJr was quoted directly by one of the MSM's as stating it was 'last' Thanksgiving. But then again, that is the same MSM during same conversation (telephone) with ALJr, that stated the business relationship between AL and DG did NOT end on a bad note, while meanwhile all of the other MSMs are stating there was bad blood, even though those media didn't speak directly to AL. In fact one MSM quoted RO as being the one to state 'bad blood' between the two, and now we find out they (JO and I am going to assume also RO in that case) didn't even know of DG.

 

[deugirtni]

I could see your interpretation for sure, IF JO had instead said, 'I didn't know him', or 'I didn't even know him'.. but she instead was quoted as saying, “I never even knew Doug Garland existed and I highly doubt my mom did, either,”. To me that is pretty specific in that she did not even know he existed.

I have a different interpretation on JO' s comment regarding DG...

Perhaps she meant that while KL and herself met him on one or two occasions, therefore knew he existed, she meant that they *knew OF him* but didn't really *know* him. Kind of like saying, "I didn't really know him."

Just a thought.

 

[news.talk]

I could see your interpretation for sure, IF JO had instead said, 'I didn't know him', or 'I didn't even know him'.. but she instead was quoted as saying, “I never even knew Doug Garland existed and I highly doubt my mom did, either,”. To me that is pretty specific in that she did not even know he existed.

Ah. Missed the last part!

 

[LoriMcA]

I seem to recall that the Liknes couple had dinner with the Garlands at some point ... so that would suggest that Alvin and Kathryn both knew about Garland. Wasn't there some story about how Garland was antisocial during the dinner?

IIRC...*I would have to look for that article*...AL Jr had Thanksgiving dinner at his in-laws....I don't recall there being any mention of the L's being at that dinner....

As for the family dynamic...in our family anyways & we are close knit...there are some distant 'relatives' I have never met...DG is rather a very 'distant' part of JO's family....

I personally don't find it unusual that JO or even KL did not know him...

The other thought I had is...maybe they had 'heard' of him...& with his rather....colourful? past....chose NOT to associate ...if that opportunity even came up at any time....

OR...another scenario...maybe he WAS such a loner that he was always under the radar intentionally...by his own choice....even neighbours of the G's have said...the guy was pretty much an enigma....*early reports from the acreage...would have to find the specific article for that as well*



JMOO

 

[deugirtni]

In the article quoted above, it says the first $40,000 of the money will be donated shortly. Is it possible for the first prnicipal sum of $250,000 to have accrued $40,000 in interest already, in just less than 2 months (especially considering what interest rates are at these days and in general for several years now)? I'm thinking that would be impossible, but someone please correct me if my thinking is off?

A big part of that includes working on the Nathan O’Brien Children’s Foundation, which will disperse its first $40,000 in funds to help needy children in the coming months. “Helping other people will help us heal,” says Rod.

This is what I know about the fund:

• the fund was registered as a corporation with the Secretary of State
• the principal will remain intact
• the interest will be used for children in need
• the O'Briens make decisions about how the interest will be distributed on behalf of Nathan (or in his name)
• the O'Briens don't need any more donations
• money is available now for the first donations

 

[news.talk]

IIRC...*I would have to look for that article*...AL Jr had Thanksgiving dinner at his in-laws....I don't recall there being any mention of the L's being at that dinner....

As for the family dynamic...in our family anyways & we are close knit...there are some distant 'relatives' I have never met...DG is rather a very 'distant' part of JO's family....

I personally don't find it unusual that JO or even KL did not know him...

The other thought I had is...maybe they had 'heard' of him...& with his rather....colourful? past....chose NOT to associate ...if that opportunity even came up at any time....

JMOO

I have a step-brother. I have met his wife exactly ONCE and I have no idea if she has siblings, never mind their names. When you come from a large family with big age gaps and vastly different social sets, it's not hard to imagine not knowing some extended family members. Hec, I have so many cousins that I couldn't even tell you half their names, and that includes first cousins. Of course there are a few I would like to forget... That's family - You can't pick 'em!

ETA: Just realized that I don't even know if my full-brother's wife has siblings. LOL. Just goes to show how easy it is to be semi-related and not know of the existence of some people.

 

[deugirtni]

Again, that could have very well been true, but JO stated, “I never even knew Doug Garland existed and I highly doubt my mom did, either,” she says.".. so there is a difference between never knowing someone existed, and knowing of someone but choosing not to associate for whatever reasons.

I do find it unusual that JO wouldn't have known DG existed, IF JO was at all 'close' to her step-brother ALJr. She was apparently 'aunt' to his and PG's children, and DG was 'uncle'. How could one not know that? Unless perhaps PG's children were all her own children before her and ALJr got together. I could perhaps see it then, and if that relationship were relatively 'new'. I don't think it is a relatively new relationship though.. but it does make me wonder why so many differing reports about the marital status of ALJr and PG, with some MSMs saying 'common-law', others stating 'married'. (Altho ALJr was quoted in the telephone interivew stating they were married).

IIRC...*I would have to look for that article*...AL Jr had Thanksgiving dinner at his in-laws....I don't recall there being any mention of the L's being at that dinner....

As for the family dynamic...in our family anyways & we are close knit...there are some distant 'relatives' I have never met...DG is rather a very 'distant' part of JO's family....

I personally don't find it unusual that JO or even KL did not know him...

The other thought I had is...maybe they had 'heard' of him...& with his rather....colourful? past....chose NOT to associate ...if that opportunity even came up at any time....

OR...another scenario...maybe he WAS such a loner that he was always under the radar intentionally...by his own choice....even neighbours of the G's have said...the guy was pretty much an enigma....*early reports from the acreage...would have to find the specific article for that as well*



JMOO

 

[LoriMcA]

Again, that could have very well been true, but JO stated, “I never even knew Doug Garland existed and I highly doubt my mom did, either,” she says.".. so there is a difference between never knowing someone existed, and knowing of someone but choosing not to associate for whatever reasons.

I do find it unusual that JO wouldn't have known DG existed, IF JO was at all 'close' to her step-brother ALJr. She was apparently 'aunt' to his and PG's children, and DG was 'uncle'. How could one not know that? Unless perhaps PG's children were all her own children before her and ALJr got together. I could perhaps see it then, and if that relationship were relatively 'new'. I don't think it is a relatively new relationship though.. but it does make me wonder why so many differing reports about the marital status of ALJr and PG, with some MSMs saying 'common-law', others stating 'married'. (Altho ALJr was quoted in the telephone interivew stating they were married).

I guess we look at it differently...I was looking at it from my own perspective...
I have a 1/2 sister and brother....I know their spouses....I know 'who' their spouses parents are...never met them...
As for brothers &/or sisters of the spouses? I couldn't tell you all of them *our family is BIG as well...just as the L's family seems to be*...or even some names...in fact I only recently found out my sister-in-law ...is a twin...who knew?
So if I suddenly found out that there were other siblings.....okay...well cool!

As for the common-law/married/ ...I've seen it as you have...stated both ways & stated combined as in 'common-law wife'
Isn't common-law now considered married after 6 months co-habitating?...It could be a year....I don't know for sure...
I think it's all in how it's been reported....married...common-law....common-law spouse.....
JMOO

 

[Lalalacasbah]

I found JO's quote about DG and him being non-existent to her and KL almost a jab/insult but not said purposefully if that makes sense.

I got the feeling she's saying in a round about way, that her family and KL had no connection and absolutely nothing to do with him. To say someone didn't exist to them are very strong words IMO.

 

[LoriMcA]

Just goes to show how easy it is to be semi-related and not know of the existence of some people.

^^rsbm

Right! Just to add too...my entire family is very forthcoming and 'chatty' haha...we are all alike in that respect in our bunch*L* & it's just...never come up?

Now if we throw into the mix the situation with DG & the L family ...say he really did not want to associate with anyone....even in his own immediate family...maybe his sister & he don't even acknowledge each other....
Well...who knows right?
I don't know how many times I've heard someone say when meeting someone by chance or even at a family get together *reunions are a big one*...."I didn't know you were so-and-so's relative....well imagine that!" & THEN finding out the connection....
JMOO

 

[news.talk]

^^rsbm

Right! Just to add too...my entire family is very forthcoming and 'chatty' haha...we are all alike in that respect in our bunch*L* & it's just...never come up?

Now if we throw into the mix the situation with DG & the L family ...say he really did not want to associate with anyone....even in his own immediate family...maybe his sister & he don't even acknowledge each other....
Well...who knows right?
I don't know how many times I've heard someone say when meeting someone by chance or even at a family get together *reunions are a big one*...."I didn't know you were so-and-so's relative....well imagine that!" & THEN finding out the connection....
JMOO

Sounds like my family! Funny story - back in my early twenties when I frequented the clubs, I met this awesome guy and we hit it off fantastically... Subsequently, we went on a date and it was a good thing we chose a place where we could talk because it turned out that we were first cousins! Ewww!

I can see PG and DG not being close... big age gap and most likely different interests and friends. I have one brother that is only a couple of years older than me and I haven't talked to him in two years. We just have vastly different personalities and don't mesh well. So, I can totally see JO not knowing about DG. This coming from someone that went on a date with her first cousin... I'll say it again... Ewww!

 

[LoisLane]

I am thinking that the comment from JO could also be her way of saying that AL was involved with someone that she had no idea about and possibly her mother had no idea about. That makes me feel like her father (since she was 6 years old) had shielded a relationship from them (KL and JO). What is questionable is how Al's son's wife has a brother who allegedly murdered 3 people. Why did Alvin engage with DG? The closest family member who would have those answers would be Alvin's son AL, he is the closest link. AL jr. and AL sr. have had business ventures in the past and possibly the present, how much of this motive is derived from the next closest link? How do the three men relate with one another from a business perspective? Why was it so secretive from KL and JO? Did AL sr. even know he was involved or invested somehow with DG? Hope I made sense...

 

[news.talk]

I am thinking that the comment from JO could also be her way of saying that AL was involved with someone that she had no idea about and possibly her mother had no idea about. That makes me feel like her father (since she was 6 years old) had shielded a relationship from them (KL and JO). What is questionable is how Al's son's wife has a brother who allegedly murdered 3 people. Why did Alvin engage with DG? The closest family member who would have those answers would be Alvin's son AL, he is the closest link. AL jr. and AL sr. have had business ventures in the past and possibly the present, how much of this motive is derived from the next closest link? How do the three men relate with one another from a business perspective? Why was it so secretive from KL and JO? Did AL sr. even know he was involved or invested somehow with DG? Hope I made sense...

It's possible that KL did know him by name through AL but he was so insignificant that she never mentioned him to her daughter.

It does open up tthe question of motive even further - If DG was not relevant enough for immediate family to discuss, then why did he murder at least two of the three? It makes me wonder if this patent issue was not taken too seriously by AL which was part of the problem for DG... he may have felt dismissed by AL.

It is also possible that AL stole the concept and refused to acknowledge DG at all; not even as had contributed. Perhaps at the very least, that was DG's perception, whether or not it was true.

 

[Lalalacasbah]

I am thinking that the comment from JO could also be her way of saying that AL was involved with someone that she had no idea about and possibly her mother had no idea about. That makes me feel like her father (since she was 6 years old) had shielded a relationship from them (KL and JO). What is questionable is how Al's son's wife has a brother who allegedly murdered 3 people. Why did Alvin engage with DG? The closest family member who would have those answers would be Alvin's son AL, he is the closest link. AL jr. and AL sr. have had business ventures in the past and possibly the present, how much of this motive is derived from the next closest link? How do the three men relate with one another from a business perspective? Why was it so secretive from KL and JO? Did AL sr. even know he was involved or invested somehow with DG? Hope I made sense...

That's the same impression I got. JO seemed protective of her and KL in the comment, and no one else strangely. She could have said 'my family' or 'my parents and I' had no idea he existed.

I have the same questions as you also about family dynamics/relationships with the men. There has to be more than the patent I think.

I mentioned JO's comment sounds so sad, because I question whether this estrangement helps process the questions of why this happened to her son and family. Meaning, the crime would feel so much more senseless if DG was so non-existent in all their lives... If DG was a stranger per se, it's just seeems more senseless that KL and NO were killed as they were presumably oblivious to him and what he may have been involved in with AL.

 

[Lalalacasbah]

It's possible that KL did know him by name through AL but he was so insignificant that she never mentioned him to her daughter.

It does open up tthe question of motive even further - If DG was not relevant enough for immediate family to discuss, then why did he murder at least two of the three? It makes me wonder if this patent issue was not taken too seriously by AL which was part of the problem for DG... he may have felt dismissed by AL.

It is also possible that AL stole the concept and refused to acknowledge DG at all; not even as had contributed. Perhaps at the very least, that was DG's perception, whether or not it was true.

Another angle to consider for motive could very well be a dismissal from AL like you said or rejection and a type of belittling in some way.

I could see intellectual property being motive much more than money, like you say - the idea. Not getting credit for *your* idea would infuriate a lot of creative types, it's very irksome. Myself being an idea person/creative type, this would be a thorn in my side, however DG being psychologically unbalanced he would have took the thorn and used it as weapon, he crossed a moral boundary for revenge most normal folks wouldn't.

 

[news.talk]

That's not exactly what Nathan's mother said.

"While they speak openly about Nathan and his grandparents with tear-filled pride, they tread carefully around the case currently before the courts. Jennifer, who never knew her biological father — “I heard he passed away a few years ago” — was raised by Alvin Liknes from the age of six and calls him dad.

“I never even knew Doug Garland existed and I highly doubt my mom did, either,” she says. “Sometimes it hits you so hard, and you can’t even breathe. You think I can’t make it through, I can’t do this.”

http://www.ipick.ca/calgary/fortney...uggles-and-honouring-their-lost-childs-legacy

Yep. See up thread... already corrected.

 

[otto]

I have a step-brother. I have met his wife exactly ONCE and I have no idea if she has siblings, never mind their names. When you come from a large family with big age gaps and vastly different social sets, it's not hard to imagine not knowing some extended family members. Hec, I have so many cousins that I couldn't even tell you half their names, and that includes first cousins. Of course there are a few I would like to forget... That's family - You can't pick 'em!

ETA: Just realized that I don't even know if my full-brother's wife has siblings. LOL. Just goes to show how easy it is to be semi-related and not know of the existence of some people.

Wouldn't Kathryn have had some interest in knowing something about her son's wife and family? Alvin did business with the extended family, so it would be unusual for Kathryn to be completely oblivious to Allen's wife, her family, and the brother that worked with her husband.

 

[news.talk]

Wouldn't Kathryn have had some interest in knowing something about her son's wife and family? Alvin did business with the extended family, so it would be unusual for Kathryn to be completely oblivious to Allen's wife, her family, and the brother that worked with her husband.

Well, we will sadly never know for sure what KL did or did not know. She may have known about him and any business dealings but never spoke about it with her daughter. My mom knew absolutely everyone even remotely connected to our family but clearly I am clueless about them myself.