Deceased/Not Found Canada - Alvin, 66, & Kathy Liknes, 53, Nathan O'Brien, 5, Calgary, 30 Jun 2014 - #18

DNA Solves
DNA Solves
DNA Solves
Status
Not open for further replies.
I have got to read this book! I may have to make a trip to the bookstore tomorrow! Thanks Lala!

I'm curious about the book as I think I read somewhere the movie was changed a bit and different from the book. If you do read it, I'm curious your take on it and how some things are similar to this case.

Hope you like it, it's kinda warped (I like warped stories myself lol), enjoy!
 
Highly sensitive could also just be an empathetic description of the case, given a small child was involved, and one victim lost a mother, and a child at the same time.

Yes it could mean that, still find the complex part curious. Could be complex meaning financial forensics and money/paper trails I guess too.
 
Otto's Quote:
<snipped for emphasis>

Sorry? "It would be nice to see me pull up something on websleuther for a change." What does that mean?

I can pull stuff up on this website. What would you like to see.

Everyone has foundations, but that doesn't mean that they have cause to accuse the Prosecutor's Office of misconduct at some level of the investigation.[/
QUOTE]

BBM

I'm not sure there have been any accusations regarding this point, however, there are 2 ends to the same stick...there's nothing wrong whatsoever at having a peak at the other end...IMO, anyone would be remiss in not questioning all aspects of any case...there's always 2 sides to the story as well.

IMO, it's easier to charge a person and to look for evidence/build a case around that person when they have someone in hand, than it is to try and find that person later. I think LE and the Prosecution would rather have these charges dropped by the Courts for lack of admissible evidence or whatever the case may be, than to have had nothing at all...especially when the POI has an already tainted past and a connection to the family. Erring on the side of caution in this case, is far more palatable than having no one brought in for it...it's a pretty big one...they had someone that 'could be' associated with it...why let him go? JMO
 
Actually, I'd say you just described a lot of incompetence - if they allowed the DNA evidence to become contaminated, or misinterpreted evidence, or miscommunication. Competent cops don't allow those things to happen, IMO.

I think it would be helpful to walk through a scenario involving faked or planted evidence. This is the way my mind works, I can't just say "anything's possible!" without thinking it though. Can we explore the logistics of the hypothetical staged death scene? Because I believe that, when we think it through, it's a very implausible theory, at least based on how I would imagine a staged death scene.

The problem with a theory that involves the staging of evidence to make it only *look* like the Ls and NO are dead, as I see it, is that we would have to assume the evidence staged would be blood. AL and KL withdraw and store their own blood over many weeks or months, until they have a sufficient volume that, when spilled at the crime scene, would cause LE to conclude they had died. I'm sure we've all seen a movie or tv show where someone faked their own death in this way.

Problem: Why would they allow NO to spend the night, on the very night they plan to disappear/stage their murder? How did LE come to the conclusion the NO was dead? Did LE say "well we have lots of blood from 2 out of 3 of them. That's enough for us to conclude NO is dead too"? Did the grandparents wound their grandson and cause him to bleed so profusely that LE would also conclude that he was dead? And then kidnapped their grandson? It doesn't ring true.

Is there another way to stage a death besides through a vast volume of blood evidence?

And then, how did DG come into the equation? What are the chances that he, a relative who also had business dealings with AL, was seen in their neighborhood on the very night they staged their disappearance? It's too coincidental, IMO.

Do you have a plausible staging scenario? Anyone?

I've been on the fence with two scenarios (alive vs. dead).

I feel extremely guilty thinking this could be staged, as it feels very disrespectful to the victims and their families. But it's also one hard to shake only because of the past histories/events I mentioned earlier in a post (aliases/false ID, fraud, inventions, shell companies, living on the lam, etc. These all sound like things out of some spy movie and like 'illusions').

Personally, my 'movie theory' (the probably unlikely, unrealistic) is not a nice one. Not sure I want to post.

I'll say it in a round about way - if a man wanted to flee from huge financial troubles who would he ask for help to live off the grid? Maybe someone he knows who has done this before. Now, if this person was extremely desperate this plan might not include their spouse, but maybe another relative to take with them (maybe even a last minute decision).

So a plan is made and carried out with one true victim at Parkhill. One of the partners in this plan is suspected and arrested while the other partner is long gone across the border with relative. Declarations are made, insurances get paid out. LE know what's happening and figure if one party wants to take the fall, maybe they can scare him into giving up the other by charging him with heinous crimes (technically and legally, this works because evidence does say this).

As Tinker said, this could be strategic of LE. And they may have only figured all this out after the search on the acreage was done, so they would not have purposefully used manpower and resources. This way, it looks to one partner that the other is taking the fall and LE can surveil with intelligence the other party involved who may think they got away with it, might relax and make mistakes. That's what could make this case complex. That would explain the wording in the AA.

Of course, this sounds too much like a movie and I tell myself this constantly. But it nags me for some reason…I feel terrible even thinking this stuff as it feels disrespectful, some days I want my imagination to not get the best of me.
 
<mod snip>

There are no hell's angels investors backing some business in the triple murder in Parkhill.

I think Tinker was being hypothetical about Hell's Angels, but I do have to agree with you otto regardless. I don't think there's an HA connection as from what I know about HA, they would never organize a murder involving a child, I think that's against their code.
 
[/B]

Lol...I'm here...I went to Mexico to check things out for myself! I'm kidding...had a very old little puppy that needed some extra attention for a bit, sadly she's passed and I'm a little heartbroken so haven't been online much at all. One thing I've thought about a lot lately is it's bad enough losing a family pet...I can't imagine what it must be like to lose a child...I don't think I could handle it...how JO and RO are coping is way beyond me. God bless them both for their strength through this and continuing to be present for their other children. Some cards that life hands out are unbelievable.
My sympathies on the loss of your companion. Always sad to lose our furry family members.
 
Haven't seen Gone Girl, but have you seen Soylent Green?

Beautiful Bones is one of the best movies I've ever seen about what it is to be abducted and left in a field.
I lent the film to my daughter and suspect that it's been handed off several times since then.

Soylent Green... is people !
 
Are legal documents considered valid links, like land titles and such? and I will if I figure out how, maybe LL can help me post it (nudge, nudge)

It would be my pleasure to assist. I was thinking we could blackout the new registered owner's name if that is not allowed.
 
Are legal documents considered valid links, like land titles and such? and I will if I figure out how, maybe LL can help me post it (nudge, nudge)

If it's a public document (i.e. land titles), should be okay to provide the link or tell us how to get there.
 
If it's a public document (i.e. land titles), should be okay to provide the link or tell us how to get there.

The link won't work unless you pay. It would have to be a scan or saved file from the land title purchase. That is the only way I know of to see the details. However, now that I look at the last page there is a clause of sort that may prevent the sharing of it. It says:

This electronically transmitted Land Titles Product is intended for the sole use of the original purchaser, and none other, subject to what is set out in the paragraph below.

The above provisions do not prohibit the original purchaser from including this unmodified product in any report, opinion, appraisal or other advice prepared by the original purchaser as part of the original purchaser applying professional, consulting or technical expertise for the benefit of the client(s).

End.

So I don't know what that means but I surely do not want to mess with the current owner who we have heard is a lawyer.

So if it can be explained to me that it is legal and legit for this document to be posted I would do it.
 
I know, I'm giggling here also! I couldn't resist, I'm just picturing it all lol! Now, I want to come too! Okay, I'll simmer down now….

I'm seeing a pilot for a new reality tv series. An unlikely cast of characters, web sleuthers, meet in various locales to trump local cops theories...
 
Are legal documents considered valid links, like land titles and such? and I will if I figure out how, maybe LL can help me post it (nudge, nudge)

Not the title deed but confirmation that the sale took place in May 2013. We had discussions in this regard before - a long while back. "But it was time for a change. The couple, whose love was &#8220;rock-solid,&#8221; sold the property in May 2013 for about $700,000, but continued living there while getting their affairs in order. The next chapter in their 35-year partnership was to take them south to a family property in Mazatlan, Mexico."
http://metronews.ca/news/calgary/11...e-put-family-first-had-eyes-on-new-adventure/
 
If the May date is correct, it would seem other MSM probably came up with December 5 by transposing the month/day.

Except 05/12 would have to have been May 12 which was a Sunday :waitasec:
 
If the May date is correct, it would seem other MSM probably came up with December 5 by transposing the month/day.

So we have MSM that says May, 2013 as per Cherchri's post and another somewhere that says December?

I will clarify that it is December when the Land Transfer went thru. You are correct about the transposing the month/day. In Stan's defence that was my fault as I did the very same thing when I confirmed the date for him last night but now that I look at other dates on the document I realize that the dates are to go in the order of D/M/Y.

One thing that I did notice now that I am looking closer at the dates was that there was a Caveat in September of 2013 and the Caveator is named to be the current owner. I am not sure what that means but some sort of exchange was possibly done in September 2013 prior to the Land Transfer.
 
Would be interesting to know what the Caveat was for and why the current owner would have placed a Caveat on the property prior to the December transfer when he didn't own the property yet.

For those who may have trouble sleeping, here's all about Caveats in Alberta ;)

https://www.canlii.org/en/ab/laws/stat/rsa-2000-c-l-4/#Caveats__235866

Haven't had time to digest it all but at first blush ... Calgary lawyer placing a Caveat prior to possession smacks perhaps of $$ owed ???
 
Would be interesting to know what the Caveat was for and why the current owner would have placed a Caveat on the property prior to the December transfer when he didn't own the property yet.

For those who may have trouble sleeping, here's all about Caveats in Alberta ;)

https://www.canlii.org/en/ab/laws/stat/rsa-2000-c-l-4/#Caveats__235866

Haven't had time to digest it all but at first blush ... Calgary lawyer placing a Caveat prior to possession smacks perhaps of $$ owed ???

My husband thinks it could be for an easement or it could be some sort of other condition relating to community guidelines that had to be accounted for, it could be multiple things. Only one way to find out so I will take care of that tomorrow.

ETA... It states the date of the Caveat (Sept. 2013) and as well it says Re: Purchasers Interest
 
I'm seeing a pilot for a new reality tv series. An unlikely cast of characters, web sleuthers, meet in various locales to trump local cops theories...

Oh too funny, I could actually see this happening... and we get eliminated one by one each week lol!
 
Haven't had time to digest it all but at first blush ... Calgary lawyer placing a Caveat prior to possession smacks perhaps of $$ owed ???

Like when you go to a casino you can sign over your house to gamble? Or if you bankrolled your house on a specific horse to place finish or show? Is that what you mean?
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Members online

Online statistics

Members online
187
Guests online
223
Total visitors
410

Forum statistics

Threads
608,790
Messages
18,245,847
Members
234,453
Latest member
LaRae83854
Back
Top