Deceased/Not Found Canada - Alvin, 66, & Kathy Liknes, 53, Nathan O'Brien, 5, Calgary, 30 Jun 2014 - #19

DNA Solves
DNA Solves
DNA Solves

New Posts

Status
Not open for further replies.
LoisLane said:
Strictly hypothetical! I only use the Chief as an example because of his involvement in the case and his stature with the organization as opposed to an officer in the field.
Click to expand...

... and chances are that is why he was the one to release that information... to give it the weight and credibility it deserved. When the actual facts of the case finally come to light, those who hope the victims are still alive will most likely be disappointed to realize there was no hope.
 
Hi all, since Nathan, Katherine and Alvin sadly haven't been found that discussion is still open. Please be mindful they are officially considered deceased, but that doesn't mean you can't have an opposing view. Please, just be respectful of each other's opinions.

Thank you
 
Leaving this thread to the higher level thinkers :rolleyes:
 
sillybilly said:
Leaving this thread to the higher level thinkers :rolleyes:
Click to expand...

Or perhaps you could explain how the logic of, "If you entertain the thought one of the victims is alive, then you are publicly slandering LE as incompetent" is somehow so much more intellectually superior than, "If you entertain the possibility that LE was competent, then you are publicly slandering DG as guilty."

Both are the same stretches of logic based on a very limited perspective, and factoring in only selective pieces of information or "facts".

I just fail to see the logic of coming to a sleuthing forum, to discourage the sleuthing.
 
OutOfTheDarkness said:
Or perhaps you could explain how the logic of, "If you entertain the thought one of the victims is alive, then you are publicly slandering LE as incompetent" is somehow so much more intellectually superior than, "If you entertain the possibility that LE was competent, then you are publicly slandering DG as guilty."

Both are the same stretches of logic based on a very limited perspective, and factoring in only selective pieces of information or "facts".
Click to expand...

They aren't the "same stretches of logic" at all. You have made a common logic mistake called denying the antecedent aka inverse error.
 
sillybilly said:
Leaving this thread to the higher level thinkers :rolleyes:
Click to expand...
I agree. The times that I do pop in for actual updates about this case, I end up having to wade through posts about conspiracies, real estate sales and purchases, faked deaths, and LE having tunnel vision. I happen to think that the victims are dead and I desperately hope that they can all be found as soon as possible. I look forward to finding out what evidence supports the premeditated murder charges against DG, but I accept that I will have to wait a long time before finding out. That doesn't mean that I have a superior opinion, it just means I have developed a firm opinion, based on the available facts. If by some chance DG is completely exonerated, I am also willing to accept that without going through any sort of cognitive dissonance to do so. :moo:
 
Hez said:
I agree. The times that I do pop in for actual updates about this case, I end up having to wade through posts about conspiracies, real estate sales and purchases, faked deaths, and LE having tunnel vision. I happen to think that the victims are dead and I desperately hope that they can all be found as soon as possible. I look forward to finding out what evidence supports the premeditated murder charges against DG, but I accept that I will have to wait a long time before finding out. That doesn't mean that I have a superior opinion, it just means I have developed a firm opinion, based on the available facts. If by some chance DG is completely exonerated, I am also willing to accept that without going through any sort of cognitive dissonance to do so. :moo:
Click to expand...

I have trouble understanding why you would refer to this forum for updates on the case when you could simply check the news sources. I would speculate you are looking for something that would not be found or explored in the media.

We have exhausted all the plausible stuff relating to MSM etc. and it was with considerable effort. This is an appropriate time to explore other scenarios and dig deeper. I understand that it would have derailed WS efforts if "conspiracy theories" were saturating the early efforts of sleuthing prior to the victims being declared deceased but that didn't happen. The reality is that LE has been unable to find these 3 people and while we sleuthed possible locations in relation to crime scenes they are still missing. I will always keep an open mind to all scenarios. If I am sleuthing and find a possible location that bodies could be located I would most definetly bring that information forward, in July and August, I sent lists to the TIPS line that I felt were red flags. I look at all avenues. Call it what you want but I feel it is a healthy and productive approach.
 
LoisLane said:
I have trouble understanding why you would refer to this forum for updates on the case when you could simply check the news sources. I would speculate you are looking for something that would not be found or explored in the media.

We have exhausted all the plausible stuff relating to MSM etc. and it was with considerable effort. This is an appropriate time to explore other scenarios and dig deeper. I understand that it would have derailed WS efforts if "conspiracy theories" were saturating the early efforts of sleuthing prior to the victims being declared deceased but that didn't happen. The reality is that LE has been unable to find these 3 people and while we sleuthed possible locations in relation to crime scenes they are still missing. I will always keep an open mind to all scenarios. If I am sleuthing and find a possible location that bodies could be located I would most definetly bring that information forward, in July and August, I sent lists to the TIPS line that I felt were red flags. I look at all avenues. Call it what you want but I feel it is a healthy and productive approach.
Click to expand...
BBM - Your speculation is incorrect. It's quite simple. I follow many cases on this forum and generally that is where I obtain links to mainstream news articles about those cases. It saves me time searching myself because certain posters that follow particular cases are always on top of things and post links as soon as they are available. I have never implied that the discussions here are 'unhealthy'. I just don't agree that they are really that productive in the context of this case, IMO.
 
stan laurel said:
Just came across this on the CBC feed about a missing persons case being highlighted on The Fifth Estate. Should be an interesting show.

http://www.cbc.ca/fifth/episodes/2014-2015/finding-emma
Click to expand...

Thanks Stan, I have been following Emma's story closely since I am also an Islander, so will watch this.

Her poor mom, and the circumstances surrounding her disappearance could go either way as to whether she left on her own free will or not.
 
Hez said:
I agree. The times that I do pop in for actual updates about this case, I end up having to wade through posts about conspiracies, real estate sales and purchases, faked deaths, and LE having tunnel vision. I happen to think that the victims are dead and I desperately hope that they can all be found as soon as possible. I look forward to finding out what evidence supports the premeditated murder charges against DG, but I accept that I will have to wait a long time before finding out. That doesn't mean that I have a superior opinion, it just means I have developed a firm opinion, based on the available facts. If by some chance DG is completely exonerated, I am also willing to accept that without going through any sort of cognitive dissonance to do so. :moo:
Click to expand...

I hope you don't leave either Hez, like I said it's good to hear both sides of the coin and look at every angle. Different opinions should be celebrated, it would be scary if we all agreed.
 
Hez said:
BBM - Your speculation is incorrect. It's quite simple. I follow many cases on this forum and generally that is where I obtain links to mainstream news articles about those cases. It saves me time searching myself because certain posters that follow particular cases are always on top of things and post links as soon as they are available. I have never implied that the discussions here are 'unhealthy'. I just don't agree that they are really that productive in the context of this case, IMO.
Click to expand...

I believe WS is a forum for discussion, where participants abide by certain TOS while they debate and investigate and discuss and share their knowledge. As a result, it is a convenient place for you to pop in and access links to the cases that you are interested in. Tragic that you have to wade through endless discussion by dedicated members. ;(
 
Lalalacasbah said:
I hope you don't leave either Hez, like I said it's good to hear both sides of the coin and look at every angle. Different opinions should be celebrated, it would be scary if we all agreed.
Click to expand...
Well in that case...:blushing:. I'm going a little off-topic, but here is a link to a case that finally broke wide open today. I remember when this family first went missing and the strange circumstances of their disappearance. I entertained the possibility that the dad and mom perhaps faked their own disappearance. Their remains were found in shallow graves in the desert in 2013 by an off-road motorcyclist. Now they have arrested a business associate of the dad's for all four murders. This guy managed to (allegedly) kill four people in their own home, transport their bodies to bury them in the desert, and evade capture for four years. It took that long to make an arrest because there were no bodies and at first police believed the family were involved in criminal activity and they had crossed the border into Mexico and never came back. Unfortunately, this lead to a long delay in justice for this family and resulted in another family member being accused of committing the crime. In reality, it was a business associate, who also happened to have a criminal record. Sounds familiar huh? I just hope it doesn't take as long for Nathan and his grandparents' remains to be found.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/11/07/arrest-mcstay-family_n_6122272.html?utm_hp_ref=crime
 
news.talk said:
So it is the omission of the words "DNA evidence" that is hanging you up?

The way "I" see it... The Chief of Police would not have gone on record as definitively stating that the three victims were dead, if there WASN'T sufficient DNA evidence. In order for the declaration of death to be solely based on bank inactivity, they would have needed more than four days to make that determination.
Click to expand...

What records? 'Records' can be stricken. It's not only the "DNA evidence", there's a lot of loose ends, unanswered questions, and information that is all being concealed for whatever reason. There's a lot of reason to speculate that this may not be your run-of-the-mill investigation. Lots. Bank activity means nothing if there are accounts overseas and those are what's being used under different names. I have accounts that haven't had activity either, doesn't mean I'm dead. Not only that, but I'm sure somewhere in my house is blood from anyone that's bled in it....and, if I wanted my blood to be in my house for someone to find, I could certainly arrange that as well. My point is, there is simply not enough information to make a determination based on what an investigative body is actually doing...it could be an entirely different strategy than they've ever used before, and perhaps they've even gotten immunity from lawsuits, etc. by the courts in order to solve the crime. This is not an average homicide, therefore, I doubt its being run as an average investigation. All MOO.
 
OutOfTheDarkness said:
Or perhaps you could explain how the logic of, "If you entertain the thought one of the victims is alive, then you are publicly slandering LE as incompetent" is somehow so much more intellectually superior than, "If you entertain the possibility that LE was competent, then you are publicly slandering DG as guilty."

Both are the same stretches of logic based on a very limited perspective, and factoring in only selective pieces of information or "facts".

I just fail to see the logic of coming to a sleuthing forum, to discourage the sleuthing.
Click to expand...

Well said OOTD, I admire your way of summing everything up so concisely...great gift you have there. :) :applause:
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

DNASolves

Who is Fairfield County Jane Doe (1993)?

Members online

... and 196 more.
Total: 490 (members: 197, guests: 293)

Online statistics

Members online
197
Guests online
293
Total visitors
490
Totals may include hidden visitors.

Forum statistics

Threads
608,779
Messages
18,245,727
Members
234,449
Latest member
Starvalentine45
Back
Top