Deceased/Not Found Canada - Alvin, 66, & Kathy Liknes, 53, Nathan O'Brien, 5, Calgary, 30 Jun 2014 - #20

[deugirtni]

It wouldn't likely be stalled per se, because police long ago released the home, and I believe the documents had been signed long before that fateful date, and the family was renting it back from the new owner. If however, it is determined eventually through trial conviction that the trio was murdered in the home, I wonder if the owner can claim some kind of compensation.. from where I have no idea (the City?).. but something, to allow demolishment of the home, and some kind of recapture of this owner's lost investment over the however-many-years this will take? I know Paul Bernardo's home was purchased by the City and then demolished, not sure if the purchase was at old value or new value.. but eventually a new home was built on the property, and it was given a new address. If the owner tried to rent out the home after July 1st, 2014 and couldn't, I wonder if he could eventually strike some kind of deal with the City to take it off his hands?

I wonder if the sale of the house was stalled by the murder case??? I have seen it happen before, where the home where a homicide took place was left empty until after trial. If Prosecutors are theorizing that at least one, if not all the murders happened in the home, it is possible that the house is now tied up with the case.

 

[deugirtni]

Well, time will tell, I suppose... news.talk seems to have noticed that news article pretty much as soon as it was written.. I have a feeling media will be all over this, and there will be other outlets doing stories, and probably updates too.. MOO

Exactly. My point was though, that reporters are no different from everyone else... career oriented and make more by the bigger audience they attract... if it could have been twisted into something sensational to keep people clicking and updating... it would have most likely read differently.

 

[deugirtni]

Excellent!

I will be there.

 

[YYC Lady]

It is possible tht the buyer of the Liknes home has plans to build a new home and is in the midst of permitting and planning, which can often take a long time for city approval...or has possibly delayed building either out of respect or from a request from the crown. (Maybe they intend to do a tour during trial?)
Count me in as hoping evidence has been found to solidify the case and bring closure to the families.

 

[OutOfTheDarkness]

There is also a little known fact... Often Reporters are told inside information about cases but are not allowed to publish it. They sit on the information until such time that they can report it, or use it to obtain the same information from a source other than LE. They guard the information because exposing it will irreparably damage their career. They would NEVER be trusted by sources again, which impedes their ability to do their job. Sometimes you can tell by what they are saying that there is more than they are telling.

Yes... the wording, to me, in this case read like the the "inside scoop" was that there was nothing new. Forgive my anal ways, and see the signature disclaimer... lol.

You can also read into what is left out of an article. There was no "stay tuned" type of cliffhanger... there would have been a massive forensic presence there if they were going to recover bodies... something like that would have been thrown into the mix. Maybe what they find will lead to that... but the massive downplaying just leads to credibility issues for little or no gain.

Much like sleuthing forums, there would have been some sort of hint of more in the wording, so later one can prove they knew something was up... see... I saw it and said it first. Especially if it's your career on the line...

 

[news.talk]

It is possible tht the buyer of the Liknes home has plans to build a new home and is in the midst of permitting and planning, which can often take a long time for city approval...or has possibly delayed building either out of respect or from a request from the crown. (Maybe they intend to do a tour during trial?)
Count me in as hoping evidence has been found to solidify the case and bring closure to the families.

That is probably more the case... I keep forgetting that the house was already sold and was being rented back. I cannot imagine anyone wanting to live where such a violent crime occurred but the Brentwood property has been sold and now occupied.

I wonder about the tour thing for jurors... Could any demolition be halted in case they need to examine the scene? I cannot recall the last time this was necessary - they usually do virtual walk-through imaging. This case is highly technical and will likely hinge on circumstantial evidence and forensics.

 

[LoisLane]

It is possible tht the buyer of the Liknes home has plans to build a new home and is in the midst of permitting and planning, which can often take a long time for city approval...or has possibly delayed building either out of respect or from a request from the crown. (Maybe they intend to do a tour during trial?)
Count me in as hoping evidence has been found to solidify the case and bring closure to the families.

It could be. With the economic slow down the redevelopment may not be feasible. Some wealthier types (have cash flow) usually see this time as a great opportunity for construction costs so who knows.

Possibly the vehicle left behind is part of an arrangement with the new owner to allow the family time to deal with it later.

Typically when building for profit/resale the tear down house would be rented out as soon as possible to keep a revenue and at least cover taxes. Granted under the circumstances the home would not be first choice in the rental market. Low vacancy and business sense would have found it necessary to generate income.

It could all be tied up with the courts. There could also be other vehicles in the two garages.

 

[news.talk]

Yes... the wording, to me, in this case read like the the "inside scoop" was that there was nothing new. Forgive my anal ways, and see the signature disclaimer... lol.

You can also read into what is left out of an article. There was no "stay tuned" type of cliffhanger... there would have been a massive forensic presence there if they were going to recover bodies... something like that would have been thrown into the mix. Maybe what they find will lead to that... but the massive downplaying just leads to credibility issues for little or no gain.

Much like sleuthing forums, there would have been some sort of hint of more in the wording, so later one can prove they knew something was up... see... I saw it and said it first. Especially if it's your career on the line...

Just my very humble and uneducated opinion... I highly doubt there are any bodies to be found. Fragments - possibly. Remains - unlikely.

 

[deugirtni]

Just curious on this.. if the buyer of this home had plans of demolishing and rebuilding, would that scenario make such a profit as to be worthwhile? I think I recall from much earlier posts when this sale was discussed, that the price was a little lower than market value for the area? But.. considering if the home were demolished (which in itself costs a lot of money,.. waste fees.. labour.. permits.. ), the price the buyer paid plus the demolition costs would then become the price of the land only.. and then add on the price of a new home.. would the owner then be able to sell it for much more than all of those combined costs? I know housing prices out there skyrocketed... just not sure on specifics.. ?

It is possible tht the buyer of the Liknes home has plans to build a new home and is in the midst of permitting and planning, which can often take a long time for city approval...or has possibly delayed building either out of respect or from a request from the crown. (Maybe they intend to do a tour during trial?)
Count me in as hoping evidence has been found to solidify the case and bring closure to the families.

 

[OutOfTheDarkness]

It could be. Possibly the vehicle left behind is part of an arrangement with the new owner to allow the family time to deal with it later.

Typically when building for profit/resale the tear down house would be rented out as soon as possible to keep a revenue and at least cover taxes. Granted under the circumstances the home would not be first choice in the rental market. Low vacancy and business sense would have found a way to generate income.

It could all be tied up with the courts. There could also be other vehicles in the two garages.

Depending on the evidence, the Defence may also need access for their own theory testing etc. I expect no one would want the argument raised that the house was destroyed too quickly if much of the case hinges on what was found there.

 

[OutOfTheDarkness]

Just my very humble and uneducated opinion... I highly doubt there are any bodies to be found. Fragments - possibly. Remains - unlikely.

You ot to know better than to start that all over again.

 

[news.talk]

Well, time will tell, I suppose... news.talk seems to have noticed that news article pretty much as soon as it was written.. I have a feeling media will be all over this, and there will be other outlets doing stories, and probably updates too.. MOO

I had heard a "rumour" that they had been out there taking photographs. No word as to whether forensics were there but possible. I thought it best for it to be reported in MSM before posting what would be considered rumour.

 

[deugirtni]

I wonder if.. since it almost appeared at the time we were looking into this 'sale', that the transaction could have potentially been at other than 'arms-length', ... if the new owner was now unable to rent the home, could he have asked the previous owners' family to just leave some things, like the vehicle if nothing was being done with it, and other things to potentially make it look like someone lives there, for insurance purposes/proactively reducing the potential risk of vandalism of a vacant house?

It could be. With the economic slow down the redevelopment may not be feasible. Some wealthier types (have cash flow) usually see this time as a great opportunity for construction costs so who knows.

Possibly the vehicle left behind is part of an arrangement with the new owner to allow the family time to deal with it later.

Typically when building for profit/resale the tear down house would be rented out as soon as possible to keep a revenue and at least cover taxes. Granted under the circumstances the home would not be first choice in the rental market. Low vacancy and business sense would have found it necessary to generate income.

It could all be tied up with the courts. There could also be other vehicles in the two garages.

 

[deugirtni]

But how can a court case tie up a person's home for months and potentially years on end? Like news.talk suggested, and especially nowadays, surely they would just do paper mapping, and virtual tours to show whatever it is they want to show jurors during trial? What if this was a different buyer, perhaps one who actually planned on moving into the home himself, after July 1st.. surely they wouldn't bring in a jury to prove a point? Once a crimescene is released by LE, isn't it free to be 'business as usual' (so to speak)?

Depending on the evidence, the Defence may also need access for their own theory testing etc. I expect no one would want the argument raised that the house was destroyed too quickly if much of the case hinges on what was found there.

 

[deugirtni]

Surely one would think and hope that LE had taken all the photos they would have needed to take, at the time they had control of the property? That seems so strange to me.

I had heard a "rumour" that they had been out there taking photographs. No word as to whether forensics were there but possible. I thought it best for it to be reported in MSM before posting what would be considered rumour.

 

[deugirtni]

I wonder why LE would even bother to release such a 'nothing' statement at all? There must be a reason. PR?

Yes... the wording, to me, in this case read like the the "inside scoop" was that there was nothing new. Forgive my anal ways, and see the signature disclaimer... lol.

You can also read into what is left out of an article. There was no "stay tuned" type of cliffhanger... there would have been a massive forensic presence there if they were going to recover bodies... something like that would have been thrown into the mix. Maybe what they find will lead to that... but the massive downplaying just leads to credibility issues for little or no gain.

Much like sleuthing forums, there would have been some sort of hint of more in the wording, so later one can prove they knew something was up... see... I saw it and said it first. Especially if it's your career on the line...

 

[news.talk]

Depending on the evidence, the Defence may also need access for their own theory testing etc. I expect no one would want the argument raised that the house was destroyed too quickly if much of the case hinges on what was found there.

That was my thinking as well. Even when a case is well planned out in advance, there can be unexpected witness testimony that varys from depositions, leading Counsel to re-examine the scene.

I still theorize that all murders occured in the Parkhill residence and that the disposal was carried out on the acreage. It is going to be a difficult trial - I surmise that the issue of no bodies will be heavily contested. It will likely come down to forensics that may also be questioned by the Defense.

 

[news.talk]

But how can a court case tie up a person's home for months and potentially years on end? Like news.talk suggested, and especially nowadays, surely they would just do paper mapping, and virtual tours to show whatever it is they want to show jurors during trial? What if this was a different buyer, perhaps one who actually planned on moving into the home himself, after July 1st.. surely they wouldn't bring in a jury to prove a point? Once a crimescene is released by LE, isn't it free to be 'business as usual' (so to speak)?

I know from past cases, that when Defense Council went back to the crime scene, even months later, with their own forensic specialists, they have been able to uncover details or facts omitted or missed by LE forensic teams. Details from witnesses that were not available or unknown at the time of the initial investigation, have revealed facts unknown to the Prosecution.

I have also seen properties tied up by Defense Council, but since no motions have been put forth thus far, perhaps they have no need. I can see however, them delaying the complete demolition of a crime scene.

ETA: It could be possible that the properties sale is in question if Defense want to use AL's questionable business dealings in their defense. Maybe the bankruptcy and unpaid debtors will paly a role?

 

[news.talk]

I wonder why LE would even bother to release such a 'nothing' statement at all? There must be a reason. PR?

My guess is that Reporter's got wind of their presence. That, or being pro-active is better than trying to answer questions later.

 

[LoisLane]

I wonder if.. since it almost appeared at the time we were looking into this 'sale', that the transaction could have potentially been at other than 'arms-length', ... if the new owner was now unable to rent the home, could he have asked the previous owners' family to just leave some things, like the vehicle if nothing was being done with it, and other things to potentially make it look like someone lives there, for insurance purposes/proactively reducing the potential risk of vandalism of a vacant house?

The house looks vacant. There is a large fold-up table of sorts standing in front of the bay window. The curtains are open. It is very obvious that it is empty.