Deceased/Not Found Canada - Alvin, 66, & Kathy Liknes, 53, Nathan O'Brien, 5, Calgary, 30 Jun 2014 - #21

[Wondergirl]

His plan grew to include Kathy.


His “fascination with autopsies,” particularly female bodies, and “a fascination with restrained and diapered women” was evident.



http://www.nationalpost.com/m/wp/fu...-calgary-couple-anbd-grandson-prosecutor-says

 

[peony27]

This makes me so sick. For all that time they were searching, it really seemed like they didn't have much but my god the evidence they have. I keep thinking about how Jennifer couldn't get max to sleep and what would have happened if she did. I am so heartbroken still over this entire thing, and to actually know how bad it was really is truly terrifying, I honestly do not know how Nathans parents can even function.

 

[kdgdid]

I hate to address this but I wonder if the diapers he used on her or them were recovered. Surely he had to have kept a souvenir. If so, I wonder if they can somehow determine a timeline for her being put through whatever he did. Does it have to apply in proving his guilt? Is this seriously the first time he has killed?

He is probably re-living every detail.

I also wonder if it was the first time he has ever killed?
I recall LE was looking at him in relation to a young woman found in close proximity to the acreage but nothing seems to have come from that investigation.

 

[Tealgrove]

I'm not sure any of us even considered the level of depravity at play here. We surmised the family was killed as a result of a business deal gone bad and we were pretty much right on that.

But, what he actually did is beyond, far beyond, a deal gone bad.

This guy is psychotic serial killer material. Where did that come from?

 

[Coldpizza]

Douglas Garland’s family set to testify on 2nd day of triple murder trial
January 17, 2017
By Nancy Hixt

WARNING: This article contains graphic content that some readers might find disturbing.

Nathan’s mother, Jennifer O’Brien, was the first to testify after the Crown’s opening remarks Monday. She told court she had taken her boys to see their grandparents at the Liknes’ home, where they were having an estate sale on June 29, 2014. She ended up going home with her younger son and leaving Nathan there.

The next day she went to pick him up, she described the house as a “bloody scene.”

“I said, ‘my family has been murdered and he’s taken the bodies.’”

 

[deugirtni]

If you want a good overview of the day (and the case) and if you want to see some different video of Nathan and his grandparents, watch the video at the top of the following story...heartbreaking:
http://globalnews.ca/news/3172718/h...ouglas-garland-accused-in-nathan-obrien-case/

Thanks.
Some more interior shots of the crime scene
(from link above via Global News):

 

[Coldpizza]

Reid Fiest ‏@ReidFiest

Douglas Garland's parents and sister will take the stand today as day 2 of his triple murder trial continues at 10amM

 

[deugirtni]

Douglas Garland’s family set to testify on 2nd day of triple murder trial
January 17, 2017
By Nancy Hixt

WARNING: This article contains graphic content that some readers might find disturbing.

Nathan’s mother, Jennifer O’Brien, was the first to testify after the Crown’s opening remarks Monday. She told court she had taken her boys to see their grandparents at the Liknes’ home, where they were having an estate sale on June 29, 2014. She ended up going home with her younger son and leaving Nathan there.

The next day she went to pick him up, she described the house as a “bloody scene.”

“I said, ‘my family has been murdered and he’s taken the bodies.’”

I feel really bad for DG's family having to get up on the stand. Can't wait to hear what they have to say though.

 

[matou]

How does a petty grudge make someone do this? He is a psycho and maybe Alvin felt creeped out by him? Maybe he looked at Kathy the wrong way or made inappropriate remarks? At his age, the is no zero to three homicidal maniac murders involving meat hooks. There has to be others. He is a fetish guy too and usually there is nothing wrong with that. He will be online somewhere because of that fetish. Did he hire prostitutes to wear diapers? Did he hang them up? Did he hurt them? Did he kill them? Thank God Nathan's mom and brother left because they would be dead too and the mother tortured as well.

 

[otto]

I think it is a error in judgement for the prosecution to label the motive a "petty" grudge.

Prosecutors speak for the people, are to remain neutral, and are to present the facts. The use of the term "petty" implies a judgement and opinion of the grudge, which I think is entirely unprofessional.

We know that Garland and Liknes were working on a patent, and that Garland contributed to that patent. We know that Garland had completed his work on the patent because the patent was filed. We know that Liknes fired Garland from his work on the patent because Liknes had a vehicle breakdown, and Garland didn't answer the phone during that vehicle problem.

It is not legitimate to fire Garland on those grounds. Liknes then went on to file the patent, omitting Garland's name. That is completely unreasonable, and gives me the impression that Liknes took advantage of Garland in that situation. I think that Garland's grudge against Liknes was legitimate and the prosecution should not suggest that unethical work practices are "petty".

Garland's actions are unreasonable, but the grudge is not petty.

 

[JadeSLeuth]

Autopsies?
Tools and methods?
How to kill without emotion?
How did this man-thing get there? I think there must be other earlier victims as practice.
Do we know yet roughly how long this "research" was conducted?

I do think that more will come out wrt motive. Possibly other business movements of Alvin play in here (in DG's sick mind). There were multiple companies and bankruptcies as I recall.

 

[Thunder321ca]

What I took from that, was that the car breakdown incident seemed to be the last straw in the history of a strained business relationship. It's difficult to get a sense of the entire situation based solely on what the reporters are saying in their limited-character tweets. Sounded like a long period of 'sourness' before the termination. They said it soured in 2007 and they didn't speak after 2010. It's really hard to say. My own opinion.

I think it is a error in judgement for the prosecution to label the motive a "petty" grudge.

Prosecutors speak for the people, are to remain neutral, and are to present the facts. The use of the term "petty" implies a judgement and opinion of the grudge, which I think is entirely unprofessional.

We know that Garland and Liknes were working on a patent, and that Garland contributed to that patent. We know that Garland had completed his work on the patent because the patent was filed. We know that Liknes fired Garland from his work on the patent because Liknes had a vehicle breakdown, and Garland didn't answer the phone during that vehicle problem.

It is not legitimate to fire Garland on those grounds. Liknes then went on to file the patent, omitting Garland's name. That is completely unreasonable, and gives me the impression that Liknes took advantage of Garland in that situation. I think that Garland's grudge against Liknes was legitimate and the prosecution should not suggest that unethical work practices are "petty".

Garland's actions are unreasonable, but the grudge is not petty.

 

[dogmatica]

If Kathryn and Nathan were sleeping on the pullout couch in the family room, then they must have gone upstairs to the spare bedroom when Jennifer left - because there was blood on the bed in the master bedroom and the spare bedroom. That's the only thing that makes sense to me.

The Amber Alert excluded Kathryn, so the blood drag marks along the side of the house probably belonged to Kathryn - that is, there was no assumption that she was alive when she left the house. That there was blood drag marks suggests to me that the person who was dragged was still alive ... still bleeding.

I think the Crown is speculating that the three were killed at the Airdrie property, but it makes sense that one or two were still alive when they were taken from the house.

Wouldn't knowing this require a DNA ID - and how could they get a DNA match that quickly? Doesn't that take at least weeks?

 

[otto]

What I took from that, was that the car breakdown incident seemed to be the last straw in the history of a strained business relationship. It's difficult to get a sense of the entire situation based solely on what the reporters are saying in their limited-character tweets. Sounded like a long period of 'sourness' before the termination. They said it soured in 2007 and they didn't speak after 2010. It's really hard to say. My own opinion.

I'm sure there is more to it, but Liknes asked Garland to work on wiring for a patent, and that work was completed. Liknes fired Garland from that employment because Garland didn't answer the phone when Liknes' vehicle broke down. That much we know from Liknes' son. That is not ethical. Liknes then took it a step further an omitted Garland's name from the patent application. That is also not ethical.

The prosecution has a reputation to uphold and, regardless of how he/she feels about Garland's actions, Garland's grudge against Liknes is not petty, and is legitimate. Any other person who is upset about that type of treatment is not "petty", yet the prosecution is sending a strong message that it is "petty" to be upset when taken advantage of and cheated in a business deal. That is a mistake, in my opinion, on behalf of the prosecution.

The grudge is very legitimate and the prosecutor's opinion that unethical business practices are "petty" has no place in a courtroom.

 

[otto]

Wouldn't knowing this require a DNA ID - and how could they get a DNA match that quickly? Doesn't that take at least weeks?

My guess is that forensic analysts can identify male / female markers in blood fairly quickly.

 

[JadeSLeuth]

Reid FiestVerified account ‏@ReidFiest 1h1 hour ago
Douglas Garland's parents and sister will take the stand today as day 2 of his triple murder trial continues at 10amMt #garland #yyc

 

[Slebby]

I'm sure there is more to it, but Liknes asked Garland to work on wiring for a patent, and that work was completed. Liknes fired Garland from that employment because Garland didn't answer the phone when Liknes' vehicle broke down. That much we know from Liknes' son. That is not ethical. Liknes then took it a step further an omitted Garland's name from the patent application. That is also not ethical.

The prosecution has a reputation to uphold and, regardless of how he/she feels about Garland's actions, Garland's grudge against Liknes is not petty, and is legitimate. Any other person who is upset about that type of treatment is not "petty", yet the prosecution is sending a strong message that it is "petty" to be upset when taken advantage of and cheated in a business deal. That is a mistake, in my opinion, on behalf of the prosecution.

The grudge is very legitimate and the prosecutor's opinion that unethical business practices are "petty" has no place in a courtroom.

I don't think we have enough information about the nature of DG's business relationship with AL to know if the grudge is "petty" or not.

If AL had an idea for a pump and designed the thing, it's possible he hired DG to wire it for him. That doesn't make the pump DG's idea or his creation. For example, if AL designed a pump, and approached DG, saying "I'll pay you $500 to wire this pump for me" - that just indicates to me that DG was hired to perform a job. In this case, IMO, DG's grudge is indeed "petty".

On the other hand, if AL says to DG, I want to design a particular kind of pump for a particular purpose, you're a smart guy, let's work on this together, they both come up with the idea, and create the pump, that is partly DG's invention and his name should be on the patent.

We don't know the extent to which DG contributed intellectually to the whole pump idea. We only know he was hired to wire it.

It would be interesting if someone familiar with patent law could weigh in.
And, in my own opinion, the fact the pump turned out to be basically worthless, no one profited from it, the idea was shelved, yet DG still held a grudge for many years, culminating in triple murder, yeah, I'd say it was a petty grudge that did not warrant a murderous rage.
IMO




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[Cherchri]

I don't think we have enough information about the nature of DG's business relationship with AL to know if the grudge is "petty" or not.

If AL had an idea for a pump and designed the thing, it's possible he hired DG to wire it for him. That doesn't make the pump DG's idea or his creation. For example, if AL designed a pump, and approached DG, saying "I'll pay you $500 to wire this pump for me" - that just indicates to me that DG was hired to perform a job. In this case, IMO, DG's grudge is indeed "petty".

On the other hand, if AL says to DG, I want to design a particular kind of pump for a particular purpose, you're a smart guy, let's work on this together, they both come up with the idea, and create the pump, that is partly DG's invention and his name should be on the patent.

We don't know the extent to which DG contributed intellectually to the whole pump idea. We only know he was hired to wire it.

It would be interesting if someone familiar with patent law could weigh in.
And, in my own opinion, the fact the pump turned out to be basically worthless, no one profited from it, the idea was shelved, yet DG still held a grudge for many years, culminating in triple murder, yeah, I'd say it was a petty grudge that did not warrant a murderous rage.
IMO




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I agree - perhaps the testimony was not well articulated. It seems to me not all the dots are connected in their history in a fulsome way so we are left with just the peaks and troughs and not the essence.

 

[Ontario Mom]

I didn't even realize the trial had started until I saw a National Post article on FB this morning. The details that have already come out after day 1 are just unthinkably horrifying. What an absolute evil monster this man is. My heart goes out to this poor family and Garland's family as well.

 

[matou]

Were the aerial photos of the farm from the investigation directly or were they from citizen drones or google earth?