Deceased/Not Found Canada - Alvin, 66, & Kathy Liknes, 53, Nathan O'Brien, 5, Calgary, 30 Jun 2014 - #21

[mrazda71]

Mid afternoon here in the UK and I'm spending my days following a case or two from UK and my evenings with you guys.
My son was 5 too when Nathan was taken and it hit me like I bolt. I think it does when you can relate to it personally ... since the shocking first day of the trial, when all the horrific evidence started to be announced I've been thinking of those first days when Jen so bravely stood in front of TV cameras to appeal for her family, her son and I can not comprehend her strength now knowing what she saw that morning she went to collect her little Hero ...

 

[otto]

It is concerning, however, that the company who took the aerial photos was flying over on July 1-2. It has not been established which day the photos showed the bodies of the victims on the farm. But at this point, I would imagine it would have had to have been at least 24 hours since the victims were taken to the farm before they showed up on those photos. So what transpired in those 24 hours, starting in the early morning hours of June 30th when DG's father was doped up on painkillers and his wife was out for most of the day at a memorial, then returned home "beat" and had a glass of wine before likely retiring to bed herself? This was also the day that DG was supposed to go to the psychiatrist, lied to his parents and said that he did, but did not. So what was he doing in the "outbuildings" all day? And again probably all night after his parents went to sleep? Why were the bodies lying prone and out in the open on either July 1st or July 2nd or perhaps both days? Long after the victims had been removed from their home. Were they out there the entire time? Were they deceased but hidden in an outbuilding for a while? Alive but restrained in an out building for a while? I shudder at the possibilities.

MOO

There is a missing 24 hours, and we know that DNA was found on meat hooks, so we know something happened with Kathryn. Hopefully she was deceased at the time.

 

[otto]

OK, here's a theory. The first burn barrel and ashes taken into evidence may have contained minimal traces, bits of bone from the victims. As someone mentioned, the Gs burned all their garbage, so this would include bones from discarded food waste - chicken bones etc. LE might be very sure there are bits of human bone in the ashes. But the defence might cast doubt about the difference between human bone fragments and those from dinner trash. By collecting the Gs burn barrel ashes many months later, they could compare the bits of bone fragment and show that the debris from the burn barrel first taken into evidence is different from that from many months later.

Just a thought.


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Rural people burn their garbage, which normally means non-recyclable paper and burnable products. Food garbage is usually composted, recyclables are stored and recycled, and other garbage is taken to the dump. It is not true that all garbage is burned, although that is the impression given. The bottom line is that if all garbage was burned, the burn barrel would have to be replaced too often.

 

[Kamille]

There is a missing 24 hours, and we know that DNA was found on meat hooks, so we know something happened with Kathryn. Hopefully she was deceased at the time.

I hope they were all deceased before leaving the house but it doesn't seem to be coming out that way in news articles. Do we know if the blood in the house matched all three of them? And was there enough to indicate all three were fatally injured in the home? Appears that LE don't think so. And I suppose you don't need restraints for dead or unconscious victims.

 

[SeesSeas]

I'm still trying to understand how DG got 2 incapacitated adults (and Alvin isn't a small man) into the truck without any neighbors seeing or hearing something. Did he put them in the cab of the truck or the box? It would be difficult for one man to get 2 incapacitated adults up into the cab of the truck very easily, and it would seem risky to put them in the box of the truck in the event that one or both of them "came to" during the drive out to the farm. Even having them in the cab of the truck, during the drive thru the city and out to the farm he'd have had to stop at red lights and risked another motorist at a red light seeing 2 adults ?propped up in the cab/not moving. Obviously he did this all when it was still dark out but in Calgary there's still always some traffic out and about.

I, too, am perplexed with how DG managed to incapacitate 3 people in a way that apparently kept them quiet enough that neighbors didn’t hear noises from the commotion.

There are many nearby homes, next to and across the street. The adjacent houses are very close, appearing to be a mere 10 feet between.

Even when a person is gagged, if still conscious, considerable noise can be made with the throat.

DG may have initially backed up his truck into the victim’s driveway. He could have had a portable ramp that he angled against the driveway and the open bed of the truck. During the violet assault, DG perhaps handcuffed and gagged Alvin and Kathy and then, after being incapacitated, wrapped them each in a bed sheet. DG then dragged the bedsheet containing each adult out of the house and up the ramp into the back bed of the truck. Nathan may have been put into the truck bed before or after Alvin and Kathy.

 

[Kamille]

Rural people burn their garbage, which normally means non-recyclable paper and burnable products. Food garbage is usually composted, recyclables are stored and recycled, and other garbage is taken to the dump. It is not true that all garbage is burned, although that is the impression given. The bottom line is that if all garbage was burned, the burn barrel would have to be replaced too often.

Has it been determined what the burn pile was used for? Was that just where they emptied the barrel?

 

[Krystine]

If I recall, in a police statement at the time it was determined that one of the victims was dead. It was discussed here, and the consensus was that based on what we knew and that it would have been Kathy. Does anyone have the skills to find that part of the conversation from 2014? (sorry I'm barely computer literate).

 

[matou]

Exhibit 12 looks like an adult molar to me. Based on what looks like the big fused root. Doesn't look like child tooth to me. JMO

 

[sublimemumma]

Wasn't there some skin and a tooth near the burn barrels?
I doubt there's anything in the burn barrels that identifies the victims.

My understanding is that they took an original barrel the first time and then went back to get more in March. I am very interested in know why and what they found. I remember seeing in the news that they we're back at the acreage after all that time and I remember wondering if he had let something slip to someone, making them interested In going back for more evidence

 

[JadeSLeuth]

In my own opinion, I believe that the barrels that were retrieved in the springtime were other barrels from the farm. LE likely took the smoldering barrel into evidence right away but then went back to look for more evidence, and at that time they took the other barrels to sift through in the off chance that further fragments could be found.

We reside near the Garland farm...makes me so sad to know that this was occurring there and no one had any idea. Not even the people living with DG.

Thanks for being here with us Kams! I know - its terrible finding out something horrible happened close by! There was a very ill 15 year old boy who starved to death in his parent care just a few blocks from me. I am so sickened to know that. I would have broken in that house in a heartbeat and taken him away to help!!

 

[JadeSLeuth]

I don't think he was doing autopsies, but rather learning how to dismember a body with the right tools.

There is a big question surrounding that 24 hours between abduction and aerial photo of the victims on the ground.

I agree. I think that he was trying to sort out how best to dismember and what would be needed.

 

[JadeSLeuth]

I had always thought that it was later - closer to 4AM - because of the light. Midnight would be very dark.

We will find out for sure soon enough, but I am going to go back and see what we knew about it. He was sort of circling/revisiting, that much I remember.... we speculated that he was waiting for J'OB to leave so it may have been earlier and then again later... I'll dig it up Otto.

 

[Krystine]

I have also wondered how one small middle aged man could have accomplished what he did on his own. Yes he had the element of surprise and we know that even law enforcement people, on or off duty have slowed reaction times when surprised.

There was a back alley and a park behind the house, with no close neighbours behind. It seemed like trees gave a good cover between the row of houses. I believe it was stated that all of the home's patio doors were unlocked when the first officers arrived, including the sliding doors toward the back of the house.

Yet the drag marks were found going to the front of the house to the parking pad in front.

... One of many puzzels in this case.

 

[JadeSLeuth]

This is my first time following a case so closely, so please excuse if this is a silly question...

Will all the evidence/theories against DG eventually come out in the trial? Or does the Crown ever hold back details in order to spare the family's feelings? Just wondering if at the end of the five weeks will we have a full picture of what happened?

Welcome subwaydreaming (and all the new folks!)
Never hold back what you think might be a "silly question". Its never silly and usually a few others are wondering the same thing.
I hope you stay with us!

 

[JadeSLeuth]

I have also wondered how one small middle aged man could have accomplished what he did on his own. Yes he had the element of surprise and we know that even law enforcement people, on or off duty have slowed reaction times when surprised.

There was a back alley and a park behind the house, with no close neighbours behind. It seemed like trees gave a good cover between the row of houses. I believe it was stated that all of the home's patio doors were unlocked when the first officers arrived, including the sliding doors toward the back of the house.

Yet the drag marks were found going to the front of the house to the parking pad in front.

... One of many puzzels in this case.

All will be revealed I suppose. Remember how we tried to figure out how DG hoisted AL into the back of the truck?
I think this will come to show a combination: head injuries to incapacitate, restraints, possibly a syringe loaded with something to ensure there would be no escapees during the drive out to the acreage, and possibly a gun (to get them out of the house). I hope that one was not forced to drag out another. I think he had multiple back-up plans in case one thing didn't work out. He was not going to be denied his revenge by anything going sideways. He had one shot and he was taking it.
IMO

 

[Cherchri]

I hope they were all deceased before leaving the house but it doesn't seem to be coming out that way in news articles. Do we know if the blood in the house matched all three of them? And was there enough to indicate all three were fatally injured in the home? Appears that LE don't think so. And I suppose you don't need restraints for dead or unconscious victims.

Testimony in the trial is specific - the three victims were killed on the farm near Airdrie. The DNA testimony is still underway with forensic investigator Alexon testifying - I think he will be on the stand for a long while. Likely to have him testify to findings at the farm too? RCMP became involved at that stage so I could be wrong (a jurisdictional issue). Big question mark.

 

[JadeSLeuth]

Side note: Thank you Meghan Grant of CBC for using different pictures of Kathy, Alvin and Nathan today in your Twitter feed!

 

[JadeSLeuth]

We will find out for sure soon enough, but I am going to go back and see what we knew about it. He was sort of circling/revisiting, that much I remember.... we speculated that he was waiting for J'OB to leave so it may have been earlier and then again later... I'll dig it up Otto.

Found this so far (re: truck CCTV sighting on Liknes street)...still looking

"The truck in question is a Ford F-150, made in the late 1980s or early 1990s. It was captured on CCTV tape, showing up several times in the southwest Calgary neighbourhood that day. Police have images of the vehicle in daylight, but were unable to grab a licence plate number. The truck appears to be in “very good condition,” police said."
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news...ing-alberta-boy-grandparents/article19463983/

 

[dogmatica]

DG isn't claiming to be Not Criminally Responsible for the crimes, is he?

Right before I read your post, I had that exact same thought. God, I hope that’s not what goes down.

 

[JadeSLeuth]

Found this so far (re: truck CCTV sighting on Liknes street)...still looking

"The truck in question is a Ford F-150, made in the late 1980s or early 1990s. It was captured on CCTV tape, showing up several times in the southwest Calgary neighbourhood that day. Police have images of the vehicle in daylight, but were unable to grab a licence plate number. The truck appears to be in “very good condition,” police said."
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news...ing-alberta-boy-grandparents/article19463983/

Then this:

"Based on CCTV video, police are looking for a Ford F-150 truck that was seen driving around the area several times in the course of the night. Police want to speak with anyone who was in that vehicle, or who may have more information about it. "
http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/calga...lert-violent-crime-happened-at-home-1.2696527