Deceased/Not Found Canada - Alvin, 66, & Kathy Liknes, 53, Nathan O'Brien, 5, Calgary, 30 Jun 2014 - #22

[SarKatStic]

Matou posted in the previous thread:
"How did he drill through metal and not wake everyone up? The house being more empty than normal would have been an echo chamber IMO."

Just a thought, is this maybe why they weren't on the sofabed in the basement anymore? Could they possibly have heard a noise and went upstairs to get help? I'm not sure that would be what I would do in a similar situation, but I imagine fear and panic factored greatly into all of the victims actions.

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[LoisLane]

Didn't Matthew Hartley die in a car accident? I think his family spoke with media.

IIRC DG claimed to have caused a horrible car accident and that the trauma would lead to his breakdowns.

 

[GIALLO]

Exhibit 83 shows 3 boxes of shoes, the box for the Dr.Scholls size 13, the other boxes indicate size 12.

 

[otto]

Matou posted in the previous thread:
"How did he drill through metal and not wake everyone up? The house being more empty than normal would have been an echo chamber IMO."

Just a thought, is this maybe why they weren't on the sofabed in the basement anymore? Could they possibly have heard a noise and went upstairs to get help? I'm not sure that would be what I would do in a similar situation, but I imagine fear and panic factored greatly into all of the victims actions.

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There was blood on or next to the beds in two bedrooms on the top level. Drilling the lock took between 1-5 minutes, depending on experience with drilling locks.

It's quite likely that Kathryn and Nathan (perhaps she carried him) went to the spare bedroom when Jennifer locked the side door at 11PM. Sofa beds are awful for sleeping. The router pings every 6 hours. It pinged a 2:10, and then not again until 8:10, where the ping return was that it was turned off. That pretty much means that it was unplugged at 2:10 AM ... because the ping cycle is every 6 hours, and the time when the ping cycle returned no signal is 8:10AM.

If they knew what was coming, I'm sure they were terrified. My guess is that Garland went to the spare bedroom first. When he got to Alvin, Alvin was probably waking up. We know there was a struggle because of the over-turned TV. I think this happened around 2:30AM. There may be CCTV of Garland's truck on MacLeod Trail, which will help refine the timeline. Of the three who could have survived the attack ... I'm not optimistic nor convinced that any survived.

 

[otto]

Exhibit 83 shows 3 boxes of shoes, the box for the Dr.Scholls size 13, the other boxes indicate size 12.

Isn't he 5'10"? I'd be surprised to learn that a 5'10" man wears a size 13 shoe. Jason Young (also of NC) wore a smaller shoe when he murdered his wife. Garland made a mistake in assuming that police would never find him, so he left the shoe box sitting in clear sight. He thought police would be chasing a shoe that didn't fit

 

[otto]

Forgive me, I'm catching up with today's happenings but, here in the UK it would still be considered murder (1St degree) if you break into someone's home with a plan to abduct them (armed with a baton too) then it's considered that you should/could forsee it ending badly, therfore - murder not manslaughter (2nd degree?)

Aha, just found the answer to what I was about to ask - how does it work in Canadian Law -

'It is also important to know that, if you kill a police officer in the course of his duty, it is automatically a first degree charge even if it was not planned and deliberate. If you murder someone in a course of a sexual assault or forced confinement then the charge is also first degree and called constructive first degree murder. You may not have planned it and deliberated about it, but if in the course of a sexual assault, confinement or a kidnapping the victim ends up dying and you are responsible for their death, it is deemed to be first degree murder.'

So, 1St degree murder IS the right charge?


http://info.lawyershop.ca/archives/...st-and-second-degree-murder-and-manslaughter/

There was a ruling recently in Edmonton (victims: McCann) where a Judge cited murder in the commission of kidnapping and the verdict was successfully appealed because the law was stricken. Rather than a new trial, the verdict was changed to second degree murder for two murder victims where the real goal was money - and covering his tracks. I don't know any of the details, but the question seems to be whether Alberta law concludes that kidnapping includes the assumption that murder may be an outcome and therefore kidnapping is sufficient for first degree murder.

Does anyone know?

 

[musicaljoke]

There was a ruling recently in Edmonton (victims: McCann) where a Judge cited murder in the commission of kidnapping and the verdict was successfully appealed because the law was stricken. Rather than a new trial, the verdict was changed to second degree murder for two murder victims where the real goal was money - and covering his tracks. I don't know any of the details, but the question seems to be whether Alberta law concludes that kidnapping includes the assumption that murder may be an outcome and therefore kidnapping is sufficient for first degree murder.

Does anyone know?

It's in the Criminal Code of Canada, which is federal law. Read #230 about murder..


http://laws-lois.justice.gc.ca/eng/acts/C-46/page-52.html#h-77

 

[otto]

Regarding the burn barrel, I think it was mentioned by one of the parents that Douglas helped out around the home and took care of the property. One of his tasks was burning the garbage. I'm surprised that the Prosecution didn't ask if there was any sort of cyclical nature or schedule for burning the garbage. Obviously, if there was a pattern or schedule and the burn barrel was found smouldering outside of typical use patterns that could be significant.

Acreage people burn the paper garbage when they feel like it and often enough. Before paper recycling, if there's a half full bag of paper stuff and a couple of days of newspapers, it was an opportunity to have a few quiet moments in the field. Garland's father said that he and Doug burned combustibles on the property regularly and I doubt there was a 'cyclical nature'.

 

[otto]

<modsnip> His mom said that she thinks he is an unhappy man. They may have felt responsible and that to keep him out of society or to protect him he would be better off at the acreage with them. I do wonder if DG abused his parents in one form or another.

I was thinking the very same thing. From an early age he was very bright and very good with chemicals - perhaps they saw him as a natural born 'doctor'. Instead, he manufactured narcotics, got in trouble. With the Lutheran school, it sounds like they tried to strenghten him out. They then sent him to Edmonton to study medicine, and that was their second warning that all was not well. That was when he stole the identify of the deceased car accident victim.

Perhaps his parents looked at him as a genius when he was a young child and thought they were doing the right thing by giving him too much autonomy and not enough oversight / parenting. Alternatively, perhaps his little sisters were born and he wasn't given much attention ??

I think Doug Garland was thankful that his parents let him do what he wanted all the time.

 

[Errrr]

Regarding the burn barrel, I think it was mentioned by one of the parents that Douglas helped out around the home and took care of the property. One of his tasks was burning the garbage. I'm surprised that the Prosecution didn't ask if there was any sort of cyclical nature or schedule for burning the garbage. Obviously, if there was a pattern or schedule and the burn barrel was found smouldering outside of typical use patterns that could be significant.

I think that finding burned skin,bones and teeth would be sufficiently significant.

 

[JadeSLeuth]

Didn't Matthew Hartley die in a car accident? I think his family spoke with media.

IIRC DG claimed to have caused a horrible car accident and that the trauma would lead to his breakdowns.

Yes! Thats my recall as well Lois, now that you reminded me!

 

[ilovepierre]

I've been sorta following this trial in The Calgary Sun...everyday there's a few pages of coverage. Of course, all the good stuff (and details) is here on Websleuths

I've been trying to catch up on the old threads (I fell soooo behind due to the MH370 disappearance taking up my time). A lot of stuff I forgot about!

 

[Tupelo]

Otto: possibly, or he had a thing for shoes that don't fit.

 

[Tupelo]

Sorry to be newbie to this case. I've tried to read this thread, but it's really long. Can anyone recommend a summary?

 

[Kamille]

There was a ruling recently in Edmonton (victims: McCann) where a Judge cited murder in the commission of kidnapping and the verdict was successfully appealed because the law was stricken. Rather than a new trial, the verdict was changed to second degree murder for two murder victims where the real goal was money - and covering his tracks. I don't know any of the details, but the question seems to be whether Alberta law concludes that kidnapping includes the assumption that murder may be an outcome and therefore kidnapping is sufficient for first degree murder.

Does anyone know?

The accused was actually convicted of 2nd degree murder based on section 230a of the criminal code which was ruled unconstitutional by the SC back in 1990. Because of the judges error in citing section 230, the accused moved for a mistrial and the judge changed the conviction to manslaughter rather than order a new trial.

http://globalnews.ca/news/3034514/c...e-arguments-in-travis-vader-mistrial-hearing/

 

[eyesofclay]

I'm wondering how much money the estate sale brought in and if any cash was accounted for in their home when it was searched. According to an article (link below) it was a 3-day event advertised on Kijiji and it was approximated that 300 people likely walked through their home.
If DG felt entitled to some compensation for his contributions to the pump manufacturing, that would have been a perfect time to rob them of any cash they had from sales (as he most probably would have known that the estate sale was taking place).

https://www.yahoo.com/news/nathan-o-brien-amber-alert-estate-sales-safety-093245422.html?ref=gs

 

[xtradegree]

Matou posted in the previous thread:
"How did he drill through metal and not wake everyone up? The house being more empty than normal would have been an echo chamber IMO."

Just a thought, is this maybe why they weren't on the sofabed in the basement anymore? Could they possibly have heard a noise and went upstairs to get help? I'm not sure that would be what I would do in a similar situation, but I imagine fear and panic factored greatly into all of the victims actions.

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All I keep thinking is:
If only they had heard something. If only AL had heard something and had time to defend himself and his family. There was a shotgun in the master bedroom. If only...

@KMartinCourts
Police found a shotgun on a closet shelf in the master bedroom of Kathy and Alvin Liknes. #garland
3:34 PM - 18 Jan 2017

 

[LoisLane]

Yes! Thats my recall as well Lois, now that you reminded me!

"Douglas Garland was living in B.C.&#8217;s Lower Mainland and working as a chemical mixer at the B.C. Institute of Technology when police found him. He managed to evade detection by stealing the identity of Matthew Kemper Hartley, a 14-year-old Cardston boy killed in a car crash in 1980."

http://calgaryherald.com/news/local...-case-has-link-to-liknes-family-drug-lab-past

Gravesite: https://billiongraves.com/grave/Matthew-Kemper-Hartley/1929021#/

There is another one too.. just have to find it. It mentions that MH's sister was also killed in that crash. She was 12.

DG had to have known the story to justify his entitlement to MH's identity. IMO.

Here: "The teen was at the wheel of a car near his family&#8217;s ranch in Cardston, about 3½ hours south of Calgary, when he hit a half-ton truck. His sister, Jill Lorene Hartley, 12, who was riding with him was also killed.

The siblings are buried together in the Church of Latter Day Saints cemetery."

Forgive my ignorance.. is that Lutheran?
https://www.google.ca/amp/news.nati...ed-with-possessing-false-id/amp?client=safari

 

[Tinkerbel1]

Possibly surveillance where he may have made a purchase before the crime?

I took it to mean that she saw DG's shoes in a video, but not in person.

 

[Lalalacasbah]

<modsnip> His mom said that she thinks he is an unhappy man. They may have felt responsible and that to keep him out of society or to protect him he would be better off at the acreage with them. I do wonder if DG abused his parents in one form or another.

<modsnip> I do not blame the parents but I very curious why a 'spry' Mrs. Garland did not notice a foul smell coming from burn barrels for hours or days.

Weekly psychiatrist visits <modsnip>? Did they not notice the shoes? Was a meat hook out in the open on a farm with no animals? The paraphernalia was probably hidden, but with the psychiatric visits would they not snoop to make sure he wasn't sliding? Just weird family dynamic maybe&#8230;and like you say, maybe he intimidated them.